Getting back into photography ... used to be f4/velvia guy

I see I still have an account here, but all my photos are gone. I used to be a very serious photographer, but one who enjoyed making the images more than researching gear. I got annoyed at faffing around with digital printing, went to B+W, and then drifted away about 10 years ago.

Most of my best stuff was shot with an f4s, with an old 20mm nikkor MF lens, and singh-ray grad nds, on velvia.

If I wanted to buy digital gear, and all I really cared about, for now, was getting back to that setup, what would I want? It seems I might be happy with just a D7200, which will work with that lens right?

Is there any reason why I'd want mirrorless instead? It seems to suit people doing other stuff, not shooting rocks, trees, sunsets, etc. And the only lens that looks suitable is 14-30 zoom, and I wonder how distorted that would be?

If anyone has faced a similar decision, I'd be curious to know where you landed. Thanks.

Since you prefer wide angle landscapes and such, which call for detail, you would appreciate that lenses for mirrorless cameras are better than ever before. One of my deciding goals was corner-to-corner sharpness in wide angle lenses, something not seen since Leica prevailed, and never quite reached SLRs (or DSLRs). Reviews show this lens to be impressive in both image and build quality. The 30.5 mm of back focus space needed for mirrored cameras is filled with optical elements to make it so.

Nikon Z 14-30mm f4 S review - Page 2 of 4 - Cameralabs

Most of my best stuff was shot with an f4s, with an old 20mm nikkor MF lens, and singh-ray grad nds, on velvia.

Welcome back! I also loved Velvia in the film days, and I liked to shoot rocks, trees, and sunsets too. :)

You mentioned D7200. I have not used it personally but read it is a very good DX DSLR that can be purchased at a good price now. It is not a full frame camera. On the other hand, the 14-30mm zoom that you mentioned is for the new mirrorless cameras and it is a full frame lens.

So, here are my suggestions (I am sure others will chime in).

If you like the D7200 DSLR (DX camera with cropped sensor), I suggest a matching Nikon 10-24mm DX lens. However, there will be some amount of distortion. See Review here.

If you like the 14-30mm S lens for the new mirrorless Z system, then perhaps you would like the Nikon Z6 to go with it. Both components are in FX full frame format.

Good luck!

Is there any reason why I'd want mirrorless instead? It seems to suit people doing other stuff, not shooting rocks, trees, sunsets, etc. And the only lens that looks suitable is 14-30 zoom, and I wonder how distorted that would be?

Mirrorless is nice in many ways. Good for nature and wildlife too. I like it better.

The 14-30mm is very well reviewed (click).

I used to use an F4, though I preferred Velvia 100 and 100F to the slower stuff, and went to digital a few years ago when I started traveling and needed more convenient gear and cheaper ways to get a million pictures home.

I currently use a d7100 and my wife a D7200. I find these cameras very nice to use.

My couple of reservations would include, first, that crop frame cameras are a bit harder to manually focus with the viewfinder. I can do it most of the time all right, and the viewfinders of the D7x00 family are quite good, but they are smaller. I never loved the viewfinder on the F4 either, owing to the plan glass screen, but I do miss the fantastically accurate finder on the old Nikon F.

The other thing is that crop frame cameras do limit the choice on very wide angles, with the best quite expensive. The introduction of the 10-20 AFP DX lens has helped a lot in this, as it's a pretty decent lens at a reasonable price, but you do have to get used to a different field of view on DX.

Velvia was my favorite film back in my film days with a Nikon F100.

I now shoot landscapes and travel with a D810 or D850, both FX. And nature mostly with a D500 and long tele lenses. The d500 is a DX body. All of my lenses are for FX. My favorite landscape lens is a Nikon 55mm f 2.8 manual focus macro lens as it is super sharp. Go to EJ Peiker site and look at his newsletter and see his lens recommendations for different camera brands.

Joe

I would just add (editing time expired) that there is almost nothing given up and several things gained in the transition from D7100 to 7200. About the only thing I prefer on the 7100 is some of the menu display options. The 7200 gives you better high ISO, a bit faster AF, a return to focus trapping, and a few other things, including elimination of rare but real banding of dark areas that occasionally appears on the 7100. If mine were suddenly to die, I think I'd go for a 7200 above other choices - a real bargain these days. Part of what I like here is, of course, that it's so familiar. I find the D7100 really easy to use, and it's easy to change settings on the fly.

But if you're looking at full frame at bargain prices, I'd look at the D750, too.

I'd suggest a Nikon Df. That's the model they designed to feel like a film SLR. It has a shutter speed dial. It's the only full-frame model that is compatible with even non-Ai lenses (although i presume your 20mm is Ai, considering the camera you used it on).

If you feel like you'd rather have something fully up to date, get a D850, the cream of the DSLR crop. But you'll need a beefy computer in order to edit its huge raw files unslowly.

Personally i won't get into mirrorles until electronic viewfinders do a better job of emulating unmediated reality.

I always liked the DF but it seems even well used ones are still pretty expensive. I've not had much trouble adjusting to digital camera controls, and though I am quite willing to agree that a DF would be very nice for all sorts of reasons, I wouldn't choose it just because it has an old fashioned dial.

In addition to chulster's reason above, I hesitate to go to mirrorless until Nikon has done a better job on sensor dirt. I do a lot of lens changing in conditions that are not ideal, and find a DSLR manages to stay pretty clean even so, but opening up a naked sensor on a windy day outdoors seems scary. The D7100 and 7200 hold up well under adverse conditions.

It seems I might be happy with just a D7200, which will work with that lens right?

It depends - if your lens is Ai or Ai'ed, then yes. If it's non-Ai, then no. Also, since the D7200 is a DX camera, the FOV you get with a 20mm lens is that of 30mm on FX; this may not suit your needs at all.

Your 20mm should work fine on a Z6 or Z7 using the FTZ adapter.

Z7 with 14-30 would be my choice.

Thanks for all the helpful advice!

I actually didn't realize that the D7200 was not full frame! I didn't even really appreciated the dslr's would not be full frame haha. I definitely need FX, because I want that same angle of view.

If I can use my old 20mm (3.5) on Z6, that might be the way to go. I like the seemingly smaller size of the mirrorless camera, as I often do pretty strenuous work to get to my locations (climbing, running, mtb, etc). It uses to be true that wide zooms kind of sucked. I guess that's not the case now!

Would I have a problem using nd grad filters on a lens like that? Or is it just as before, you use the big Cokin holders and it all just works?

I see I still have an account here, but all my photos are gone. I used to be a very serious photographer, but one who enjoyed making the images more than researching gear. I got annoyed at faffing around with digital printing, went to B+W, and then drifted away about 10 years ago.

 

Most of my best stuff was shot with an f4s, with an old 20mm nikkor MF lens, and singh-ray grad nds, on velvia.

 

If I wanted to buy digital gear, and all I really cared about, for now, was getting back to that setup, what would I want? It seems I might be happy with just a D7200, which will work with that lens right?

 

Is there any reason why I'd want mirrorless instead? It seems to suit people doing other stuff, not shooting rocks, trees, sunsets, etc. And the only lens that looks suitable is 14-30 zoom, and I wonder how distorted that would be?

 

If anyone has faced a similar decision, I'd be curious to know where you landed. Thanks.

A new digital camera equivalent to the F4S should be something like the D850 or Z7 if not the D5 or the upcoming D6.

Now in my case I had the F3 and F5 so I went for the Df as it's closer to my favorite F3. I didn't buy any lenses.

Although I didn't get away from photography for 10 years I did grow up on an F2 and have always preferred the control set up. I have several F2's and a couple of F4S bodies as well and they all get used. For digital and your lens choice I would suggest a D750, 800, 810 or 850. I am not recommending mirrorless at this point since I've never tried one and see no need to go that way. Figure out a budget and choose accordingly. There is no real wrong answer here.

Rick H.

I used velvia for years, until about, what, 2003 when Cibachrome printing went away. Digital since, up to a D850 now. It is much better, although learning photoshop, lightroom, or whatever post processing software takes a little work. It is fun. I print up to 13x19 desktop that is better than Cibachrome from the day. Could print larger with a bigger printer

The D750 will put you basically back to your film experience in that 24 mp is the same to a bit better than full frame film. Budget does matter. If you want better resolution a used D800, D810, or D850 pushes you in to film medium format territory. But then you will find the old 20 mm lens lacking. A new 20 f1.8 autofocus is not that expensive and will be much better.

Come on in, the water's fine!

Since the D850 came out you can buy a D810 at very reasonable prices. Until the D850 superseded it, the D810 was considered by many to be the sine-qua-non of high-end landscape cameras. I love mine, and can use any of my old Ai and Ai-S lenses on it, along with all the newer stuff. While the D810 is famed for resolution, it is even better at color rendering than just about anything else out there. Now, you would likely be very satisfied with any decent 24 megapixel body, such as the D750, Df, etc. I went from a D7100 to the D810. The 7100 worked, and continues to work phenomenally well. The D810 is simply that much better.

For any of the digital bodies mentioned here you need a decent computer to process the images, and, particularly, a good monitor (calibrated, of course) to get the best images of which this equipment is capable. I just in the last week upgraded to a substantially improved monitor (from a low-end kit monitor) and now I realize I need to revisit virtually all of my previous images. Now that I can see the details and the contrast and colors I realize there is a vast array of opportunities I never realized existed, simply because I couldn't see them before. So keep in mind that you'll need both image capture as well as image processing to make the whole thing go.

Why even bother wth digital?

Errr, why even bother with film?

I can't think of one single advantage for me.

I learnt photography with a 5 x 4 view camera, moved through MF with Bronica and Mamiya, went 35mm with a Canon A1, and then an EOS 5.

Digital started for me in late 1999 with a Fuji Pro 1 and a pair of Nikon 990s.

First FX was a D700, then a D3S for sport and a D810 for studio, now a D850 for studio and a D500 for sport.

Film has no appeal whatsoever to me any more.

In addition to chulster's reason above, I hesitate to go to mirrorless until Nikon has done a better job on sensor dirt.

All sensors collect dirt, but mirrorless sensors are much easier to clean than DSLR's. They are close to the flange and there isn't a mirror in the way. I check the sensor daily with a bright flashlight, and clean it if necessary.

• Cameras with in-body image stabilization (e.g., Nikon Z6 and Z7) shake the sensor each time the camera is powered off, dislodging most lint
  
• If I see lint, I use a bulb blower on the sensor
  
• If the blower doesn't work, I use a micro fiber brush intended for sensor cleaning
  
• If the brush doesn't work, I use the wet method, with Eclipse fluid and a dry sensor swab.
  

Don't forget to clean the lenses too, especially the flange, caps and rear elements. Vacuum the camera bag from time to time.

Well I love B+W film, but I don't have a darkroom right now. And I miss making prints. And I hated faffing around with scanning slides. That's why digital has become more palatable to me then it was at the time.

Thanks for all the great advice! I'm not sure I really need mirrorless. It seems the main thing it would give me, and my needs, is lighter weight, and that's not enough to move me towards it.

It seems that the D810 will use my olds lenses, and give me some space to explore and see how I feel before I invest in new glass. The AF-S NIKKOR 16-35mm f/4G ED VR looks good, though I don't care about VR. I still have a very good tripod and used it for most of my stuff.

I have some high spec MacBook pros, I gotta think that's enough for editing and making some prints for now. If I did need a better monitor, I assume it's more important that I calibrate it, than buy a specific brand?

The AF-S NIKKOR 16-35mm f/4G ED VR looks good

I own and use this lens and can recommend it.

If I did need a better monitor, I assume it's more important that I calibrate it, than buy a specific brand?

Correct. If your MacBooks have the Retina display, then you are good to go. If not, then a good monitor, calibrated, will be a boon. A little online research will tell you a lot about monitors and options. I just bought the Dell U2718Q IPS with up to 4k resolution. My current computer won't push it that high, but I decided to future-proof since I expect to replace the computer soon. I'm already seeing things in my images I could not see before.

I can tell you what I would do if (1) I were in your situation and (2) budget is not a concern. However, I am not you.

For landscape photography, the best Nikon camera now should be the Z7, and I would couple that with a 14-30mm/f4 S lens that would provide a lot of flexibility. In addition to that, the 24mm/f1.8 S lens is excellent and Nikon will add a 20mm/f1.8 S in 2020. All of those should be excellent wide lenses for landscape. The major advantage of mirrorless is that lenses are no longer designed around a mirror on the rear end so that the rear elements can be much closer to the sensor. Moreover, the discussion about distortion is very 20th century. Modern lens designs have more distortions built into the lens, in favor of smaller, more compact designs. There are now lens-specific profiles in post-processing software to correct for specific lenses at various focal lengths.

If one is really serious about landscape photography, I would go a step further to get a Fuji "medium format" mirrorless body, but the sensor is less than twice the area of FX, not quite medium format is the more traditional sense.

I started using film SLRs some 47 years ago and Nikon 42 years ago. I have used all sorts of film from Kodachrome to Velvia, etc. etc. At least to me, there is no point to use film any more unless you are into large format to take advantage of tilt, shift. However, I also have graduate degrees in computer science so that computers and post processing are not at all foreign to me.

I fully understand that not everybody is ready to make a major leap into mirrorless and post processing. Therefore, the real answer is how modern a system the OP is ready to accept and use.

Thanks for this very detailed and interesting reply! I work in software engineering, and I want to minimize the time I need to spend using a computer to make prints and manage my images. That's one reason I got tired of scanning my slides, and took refuge in my darkroom. But I'm back because I miss photography, and I perceive that things have matured to the point that I could have a pretty streamlined digital workflow. I'm the opposite of a gear-head - I love making photos, I hate messing around with gear. I race bikes and am the same way with that ... I'll always just go with my team's gear, and how my shop sets it up. I just wanna ride. haha.

Your remark about distortion is very interesting. I don't mind spending money for more compact gear, so long as I'm not losing quality. These distortion corrections, is this something easy to add to one's workflow? What post-processing software are you talking about?

Thanks again for all the amazing replies. I can see the community is as amazing as I remember it.

The AF-S NIKKOR 16-35mm f/4G ED VR looks good, though I don't care about VR.

I own and use this lens and can recommend it.

I own it too; it's the lens that got me to move to FX. And VR was a major selling point for me. I recently got a Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC - it's better in every way than the Nikon - except for the fact that it doesn't take regular filters.

I already seconded Sun's suggestion of the Z7 with 14-30 in my 1st post; especially in regard to the advantages in size and weight given the OP's activities. Lens distortion correction is automated in most post-processing software (LR, PS, DxO) - and often already incorporated in the camera itself (certainly when shooting JPEG). As Shun pointed out, there's a whole lot more to mirrorless than small size and less weight - the main benefit of moving towards the Z-mount is the already demonstrated higher optical quality of the lenses. Apparently so far there's not a single one that doesn't leave it's F-mount equivalent in the dust.

It seems that the D810 will use my olds lenses

Again, I don't know how old your lenses are - but they have to be Ai or Ai'ed otherwise you can damage the camera by attaching them. The only DSLR that can take non-Ai lenses is the Df - not a camera I would choose for pretty much anything.

ab3, there is more to it than meets the eye. Many well-intentioned replies are from photographers who made the switch to digital many years ago, and have worked their way thru several generations and types of digital camera. Their experience reports have tremendous value in most respects, but OTOH they are so far beyond your starting point they may have forgotten some of the bitter disappointment they felt at the beginning of their transition from film Nikon to digital Nikon.

The number one killer "gotcha" is the so-called "compatibility" with manual focus AI or AIS or pre-AI Nikkor lenses (like your beloved 20mm f/3.5). While it is true semi-pro models like D7200 and D810 are equipped with AI meter coupling, and it was admirable of Nikon to maintain that compatibility, in practical use it almost doesn't matter. A key factor one learns very quickly is that digital sensors are much more ruthlessly revealing of focus errors than film, yet at the same time the "AF-only-optimized" optical viewfinders of DSLRs are near-worthless for manual focus unless you're blessed with flawless 20/20 eyesight and ability to set perfect focus by pure instinct.

Chances are, you will have a hard time equaling the results from your 20mm f/3.5 on film when its attached to a DSLR. The D810 is a lovely camera, but the 36MP sensor is very hard on old lenses, revealing aberrations you never knew they had, Add the difficulty nailing perfect focus, and you might be left wondering why you bothered. The dirty little secret of DSLRs is that they really only work conveniently and consistently with modern electronically coupled AF lenses. The camera bodies are programmed with profiles for most existing AF Nikkors, which you'll discover is way more significant than you might think. Aspects like overall pleasing exposure, color balance, and aberration reduction can dramatically tilt the scales in favor of AF lenses. Our trusty old manual Nikkors that were utterly predictable on film can be total wildcards on DSLR, with color balance shifting from shot to shot and true clarity in perhaps 1 out of 5 manually focused shots.

Hence, one of the biggest advantages of mirrorless cameras is their improved usability with old manual-focus lenses. Instead of relying on indistinct optical focus screens or clumsy rear-panel live view LCD, their full-time electronic viewfinders give you a continual preview of what the sensor is seeing. Manual focus becomes much easier and more accurate, color and exposure shifts immediately visible (a slight re-framing can work wonders on the spot when a manual lens shows whacked-out color). This is why the Sony A7 full-frame mirrorless concept was an instant hit, forcing Canon and Nikon to reluctantly offer their own variations like Z6.

But, theres no perfect compromise when it comes to using old (or even some new premium) manual focus lenses on digital bodies. Mirrorless has the advantage for manual focus ease and overall instant preview, but physical operation of the mf lens can be awkward and confusing. The Z series will let you mount lenses like your 20mm Nikkor via the FTZ adapter, but the adapter adds cost and bulk, and is dumb as a brick as far as coupling to the lens. Unlike the Nikon D810 that has actual AI meter coupling, manual Nikkors on the FTZ adapter are completely uncoupled. The aperture is locked in stop-down mode, metering is stopped down, the camera body has no clue what aperture is set on the lens, and there can be some oddly unpredictable stopped-down metering errors that take awhile to wrap your mind around. The good news is since you're always viewing thru the actual shooting aprture, you get a preview of any issues like curvature of field at various apertures.

In the end, depending on camera type, you lose a few points and gain a few points when using manual vintage glass on digital bodies. The old Nikkors are still capable of wonderful images, and often have a nice "character" that can be sorely missing in the new "perfect" digital AF lenses. But theres a bit of a learning curve: you can't just slap your old Nikkor on a new digital body and expect to use it exactly as you did on your F4 film body. Instead, you'll be exercising and developing new modes of thinking and shooting, with some stumbles along the way.

If you'd prefer to bypass all that, for a grab and shoot experience more akin to your F4, put your beloved manual Nikkors on a shelf for now and wait until you're more in the mood for a bumpy transition. Instead, buy the digital body that most appeals to you, along with compatible matching lens (20mm f/1.8 AFS for the D810, the 14mm-30mm zoom for the Z6). Good luck and have fun, whichever path you choose!