Full Metal Jacket - The Camera...

Supposedly the listing of the camera used as a prop in the movie "Full Metal

Jacket" here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vivitar-220-SL-Camera-35mm-Full-Metal-Jacket-Movie-Prop_W0QQitemZ110082864053QQihZ001QQcategoryZ15241QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Please note that if true, I realize this camera would not be a 'pre-1970'

camera, but this still seemed the most appropriate forum to post my question in.

 

Given that even if this auction listed camera *was* used as a prop in FMJ, it

would be historically inaccurate, then my question is this:

 

What camera would have been issue gear for a US Army soldier attached to "Stars

and Stripes" newspaper during the war in Vietnam, circa 1965-1973 or so?

 

I have seen Canon F-1's and Topcons marked as US Govt Property, but would these

have been the 'correct' issue gear for that time period and locale? Would the

Govt have individually sourced cameras for this type of news reportage?

 

Just curious, and wondered if the military/camera history buffs might like to

take a crack at this one.

 

Thanks!

vivtars have fixed prisms, but even the low-res picture shows that that's not the case. The camera is most likely a Nikon with whicheveritis metering head... now of course perhaps they really did use a vivtar in the scene where the camera gets snatched by a vietnamese on a scooter :)

Inthe picture is aNikon with a Photomic Ft or FTn metering head and a what looks like a

50mm Nikkor of mid-1960s vintage. FMJ's director was Stanley Kubrick who not only was

astickler for authenticy but was an avid photographer who before he began his career as a

film director, was a staff photographer for "Look" magazine beginnign in the late 1940s when

he was 17.

 

So despite what the seller claims, it is extremely unlikely that this camera was used in FMJ

unless it was a prop used in a civilian scene.

\

Not to mention that this is a 0 feeback seller, and there is no image of the actual camera, just some movie still...

 

- Randy

Thanks for the info - and I certainly see the point.

 

But really, I was not trying to determine the veracity of the seller's claim. Rather, the auction elicited in me a question about what camera a US Army soldier working for Stars and Stripes *would* have been issued.

 

Anyone?

Hmm. Vivitar 220SL. Hmm. The manual for it available here http://www.butkus.org/chinon/vivitar_250/vivitar_250.htm was printed in 1975. Little late to have been used in 'Nam.

I actually did say that. But thanks.

 

Back to the question - what camera WOULD HAVE BEEN used? Anyone?

Where is the paperwork substantiating the claim. If he has it it should be posted along with the photo of the camera's visible serial number.

Since nobody's answering the actual question, let me have a crack at this.

 

A common Vietnam-era camera was the Graflex XL. It is said (on the Graflex websites) that a large proportion of the Graflex XLs ever made were for the U.S. military. The Graflex XL was replaced in use by the Nikon F, although I don't know what finder was standard issue. These were supposedly preferred by the users over the Graflex. I don't know a date for the changeover.

 

I don't know if there was any variation in equipment assigned to the different services. The photographer in FMJ is not a U.S. Army soldier, but a Marine. The U.S. Navy used to use Speed Graphics, but I don't know when they got rid of them. I have seen reprints of Navy photographer manuals which were essentially Speed Graphic instructions.

 

Many U.S. Navy Canon FDs from the 1980s are still around of course, and they surface on the hated auction site with some regularity. They include F-1Ns and T70s, often with bizarre modifications to make them completely idiotproof.

<blockquote>

Since nobody's answering the actual question, let me have a crack at this.

</blockquote>

 

<p>Thanks! Not sure if I didn't word my question very well, or...</p>

 

<blockquote>

A common Vietnam-era camera was the Graflex XL. It is said (on the Graflex websites) that a large proportion of the Graflex XLs ever made were for the U.S. military. The Graflex XL was replaced in use by the Nikon F, although I don't know what finder was standard issue. These were supposedly preferred by the users over the Graflex. I don't know a date for the changeover.

</blockquote>

 

<p>Interesting. A pretty large camera to be toting into hostile fire zones. Of course, I do recall seeing the Speed Graphics that were 'military issue' and de-chromed black or olive drab, but I presumed that was strictly WWII-era and didn't even think about the later XL press cameras.</p>

 

<blockquote>

I don't know if there was any variation in equipment assigned to the different services. The photographer in FMJ is not a U.S. Army soldier, but a Marine.

</blockquote>

 

<p>Well, that's embarrassing. I'm a former Marine (post Vietnam-era, 1979). I read the book FMJ was based on when it came out as "The Short-Timers." Duh. Well, mea culpa.</p>

 

<blockquote>

The U.S. Navy used to use Speed Graphics, but I don't know when they got rid of them. I have seen reprints of Navy photographer manuals which were essentially Speed Graphic instructions.</blockquote>

 

<p>I've seen the two-book "Photographer's Mate" US Navy training sets, but I've never read them. I seem to recall one two-book set having a 1949 printing date, though.</p>

 

<blockquote>

Many U.S. Navy Canon FDs from the 1980s are still around of course, and they surface on the hated auction site with some regularity. They include F-1Ns and T70s, often with bizarre modifications to make them completely idiotproof.</blockquote>

 

<p>I have seen the "Property of the US Navy" FD lenses that are 'pinned' or 'locked' to infinity focus, if that's what you mean. Never quite figured out what good that was, nor if such a lock could be removed. In any case, as you say, they appear to be significantly post-Vietnam issue.</p>

 

<p>I appreciate the info on the Graflex XL. Never thought of that...</p>

At one time the US Navy used Leica M2-R's. In the late 60's or early 70's Pop Photography had an article about Leica selling off M2-R's that were surplus to the Navy contract. Somewhere around the house I have a Buweps overhaul manual. If I didn't throw it away.

A lot of Rapid Omegas were in use in Viet Nam; I'm not sure which specific models (M/100/200) Uncle Sam bought, but they were fairly common. (KEH, I seem to recall, acquired literally hundreds of them, surplus, a few years back.)

 

On the subject of wierd Canons in government service, a couple years ago I very briefly owned an ex-USN FD-mount Canon 135mm lens with rhodolite markings, if that's the correct term; the four little crosshair-like doohickies, one near each corner of the frame. It wasn't locked to infinity or anything, but still wasn't real useful.

I thought for sure it was a Nikon F, but I did look up the Vivitar 220 SL, and believe it might really be that camera on his shoulder. The clue is how low the self timer lever is on the body of the 220 and the one in the pic.

 

I'd guess the issued cameras would have been F's, or M3's?

Wonder what George W carried in his war experience epic, "Full Metal Dinner Jacket"?

The camera in the picture definately a Nikon F model with a metered finder.

 

I was in an Army Public Information Detachment in the early 1970s--right as Vietnam was ending and there were issuing new Canon F1s and Canadian-built Leica M4s. Those were "standard issue" for our type of unit. The M4s came in a case with 50mm, 35mm and 135mm Leitz lenses. I think the F1s did too but I don't remember for sure.

 

Prior to that we used Graphic XLs and even have a Speed Graphic wandering around.

 

I think Nikons were issued to some military types but Canon seemed to be the main SLR. I'm relatively certain no U.S. military or government agency ever issued Vivitar cameras--don't think Vivitar made any thing but lenses at that time.

Here is a page on military cameras.

 

If you scroll to the bottom a reader of the site emailed with what he used at one time or another during the Vietnam conflict.

 

http://www.cameraquest.com/nikonmil.htm

 

Stars and Stripes didn't have staff photographers. According to this interview John Olson claims he was the first one.

 

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0107/olsontext.htm

 

Here is a picture of him with his cameras. They look like Nikon Fs to me.

 

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0107/ss08d.htm

Sam, that was amazing stuff. Thanks for the links!

Having watched that movie recently I know that in the scene where the camera is stolen, that was a F and I think he had two of them. In the scene following the attack on the base at the beginning of the Tet offensive there are F bodies and lenses of the same type strewn all over the big table the actors sat around. The vintage of the equipment is about right and if I recall a retired Navy medical photographer I used to work with said Nikons were in use in the Navy in the '70's. Can't say about the Corps though.

 

Rick H.

Surely the predominant 35mm camera used in Vietnam would have been the Nikon F. That and Leica rangefinders are almost all you see in photos from the war, and there were few viable alternatives: the Canon F1 wasn't introduced until 1970-71, and the only other pro level SLR before that was the Topcon. These were issued in the Navy but the Nikon was much more popular among reporters.

On my book shelf is a copy of "Where War Lives", by Dick Durrance II.

Durrance was a Specialist 4th Class in the Dept. of Army Special Photographic Office. In his forward he claims he was inspired to dig out, print and publish the photos he'd made with his own personal Nikon F after seeing Oliver Stone's "Platoon".

 

The book includes one photo of two GI's and a Vietnamese interpreter interogating a captured Vietnamese. One of the GI's has two Nikon F's around his neck, one with metering prism and a zoom lens on it. The other with an eyelevel prism and what appears to be a standard or wide angle lens, though neither looks like a Nikkor lens.

 

The only photo of Durrance himself in the book, shows him in March 1968, sitting in a bunker, with a Rolleiflex TLR cradled on his lap, and a holstered 45 at his side.

I'm sure that photo is not the ONLY scene in the movie. Other cameras could have been used in other scenes. But only a fool would pay 4x what a camera is worth based on an unsubstantiated claim. The M42 mount Vivitars are decent cameras though. My favourite is the 250/SL. They come in chrome or all black versions and were made by Cosina.

Just as a side note, wasn't 'Full Metal Jacket' shot in the UK because of Kurbrick's refusal to

travel? Is this is so, it makes the claim in the ad slightly more dubious.

In US Army Europe 1970-71, in a counterintelligence station, we had Minox IIIs and Minox B's, Leica IIIg, IIIf, M3's, Pentax Spotmatics (M42, which was compatible with some of the Russian lenses we had) Perkin Elmer 600 & 800mm cats (now sold as Vivitar Series I), Bell & Howell and Bolex 16mm cine cameras, Polaroid 185's, and a Linhof studio 4x5, as well as two Graphic complete sets. Didn't have Nikons, although I know they were used in press circles.

 

When we really had to bring home the bacon, I slipped an Instamatic into my coat pocket -- no kidding.<div></div>

pretty cool.....

It's hard to tell from the little picture on the auction page, but it looks like a Photomic T or TN to me.