Fujifilm XE2; amazing camera with one major firmware flaw.

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by miles|1, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. I just purchased a Fujifilm XE2 with the 35mm 1.4 and am hugely impressed with the image quality, better than my Nikon D700 for sure. However there is one major flaw that would be so easy to fix in firmware. The camera refocuses between shots when the shutter is half pressed thus slowing down shot to shot times enormously. All that Fuji would have to do is put an option in the menu via firmware to stop refocus on trigger half-press and the handling would be greatly enhanced.
    I have been using the AFL in manual focus and also manually locking in AF and while this works nicely I would much prefer the camera to hold focus via the shutter release.
    My question is what is the best way to alert Fuji to this issue with a good chance that they will actually read it and take note? Is there a link for providing feedback? Is anyone else bothered by this as it affects all Fujifilm X bodies such as the X100s and X Pro 1?
    Thanks in advance,
    Miles.
     
  2. Thanks Cliff, I'll try that.
    I'm amazed there's not more discussion about this even though Lori Grunin's CNET review says "Time for two sequential shots is a little on the slow side, 1 second for JPEG and 1.1 for raw, mostly because the lens seems to reset and refocus between shots."
     
  3. This seems to me like normal camera behavior. Nikon's do the same thing.

    If you want it to focus only at certain times, and not every time you press the button half way, put it in M and use the AFL
    button to focus.
     
  4. Thanks Andy; I can assure you that
    this behaviour is not normal for Nikons,
    that would slow the camera down way
    too much. As I said I already use the
    AFL method however would much
    prefer to use the shutter half press. All
    that is needed is a simple menu option
    saying something like "no refocus with
    half press." I'll continue to use the
    camera while travelling but ultimately
    this will be a deal breaker for me and I
    will look at other options if Fuji don't fix
    this in the very near future.
     
  5. What's the difference between refocus and focusing a second time? You press the button halfway and the camera
    focuses, because that's how it works. It doesn't read your mind to decide that some of the times you press the button you
    want it to focus and others you don't.

    It's more noticeable on a mirrorless camera because the focus system isn't as quick as a DSLR, and is more likely to
    "hunt" but on a Nikon it does work the same way. That's why so many people use the AFL button on DSLRs even though
    it adds an extra button.

    You're making a really big thing out of a a "bug" that's just normal camera behavior.
     
  6. Andy; firstly the Nikons have the option to lock the focus with a half press and NOT refocus so long as it's kept half pressed. That's all I want. It's not a bug as such just a result of immature firmware. If I don't want it to refocus between shots I should have that option. The CNET review http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/fujifilm-x-e2-body/4505-6501_7-35829243.html talks about this and how it makes the camera on the slow side. "Read your mind;" one would have to be pretty stupid to expect that, I'm not sure you understand my point exactly. All I want to do is avoid refocus between shots if I KEEP the button half pressed, so easy to do in firmware as an option. Think about it; once I've acquired perfect focus with a half press why would I want to go through the whole 1 second process of refocussing and miss a decisive moment?
    I am not alone, check out these links:
    http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php/topic/9217-avoid-refocusing-after-every-shot/
    http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php/topic/14835-am-i-missing-something-re-af-on-the-x-e1/
     
  7. Thanks C for the link, that may be a good place to go.
     
  8. Are you sure your camera is refocusing in-between shots with the shutter button half pressed while you choose AF-S or are you setting it to continuos autofocus (AF-C)?
    If you set it to AF-S it should lock focus as soon as you half-press the button, according to page 47 of owner manual (english version) it is supposed to work that way but if you set the camera to continuos focus (AF-C) refocusing is how it is already conceived to behave.
    And as someone said before, Nikon cameras shall do the same as long as you use them in AF-C, as you can check if you go to page 72 of the manual (english version) of the D700.
     
  9. I'm talking AFS, that's why it's so surprising.
     
  10. As it has the selector positions (M-C-S) with the S at the extreme maybe there is a hardware malfunction, otherwise that would be problem populating the web by now and to be honest it is the first time I see someone complaining about this problem, and I've been following the reviews as I'm a potential buyer of the camera (just waiting for news about X-Pro1 successor to make my mind).
    Read the autofocus section ( Autofocus and Performance) of the "First Look" in the link bellow, written by a guy that has a book on the X-System cameras and is a regular contributor to the site:
    http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-fujifilm-x-e2/
    Reading this section I noticed the Pre-AF menu item and the ways it can act and I think you should check if your camera has this function "on", as it may interfere with the expected action of AF-S (this is not very clear for me yet as I only read about it there).
     
  11. Thanks António; I am not in AFC but in AFS and I have turned the Pre-AF off. I'm quite sure it's not a hardware malfunction just an oversight in not providing the required option. Let's hope for a fix soon.
     
  12. The behavior you're describing is normal for some cameras. My Nikon V1 behaves pretty much as you and other X-E1 owners have described. My Nikon dSLR doesn't. In actual practice, it hasn't been a problem. If I need quicker performance from the V1 I switch to AF-C and continuous framerates.
     
  13. I guess most folks reckon it's pretty normal or are apathetic. It would be so simple for Fuji to do. If Nikons and Canons behaved like this there'd be uproar...
     
  14. Of course this affects all X cameras including the X100S; I'm amazed owners of that camera, of which there are many, haven't been bothered by this. I personally can't stand it when I press the trigger and the shutter goes off a second later regardless of whether the camera has decided that it's in focus. The photographer should be in control...
     
  15. Register with the site I linked above, Miles. Lots of experience and generosity there concerning Fuji X matters.
     
  16. I just purchased a Fujifilm XE2 with the 35mm 1.4 and am hugely impressed with the image quality, better than my Nikon D700 for sure.​
    fwiw, the x-e1 has the same sensor and is about $400 less, body only.
     
  17. Cheers C, let's hope Fuji reads these things. Yes, Eric, a good deal for sure however it was the phase detect AF and snappier electronics that made me go for the XE-2. Don't get me wrong people, this a fine camera; superb image quality and excellent build quality. Just that as it stands it's more suitable for static subjects and bit trickier for on the fly stuff. There are work arounds, manual zone focus being one, but it could be so much better with a few lines of code...
     
  18. Ok. Miles just to clarify you are referring to the fact that with Nikons you can set the camera so that it ONLY focuses when you push the AF button and not on the shutter press? I know a few people who work that way.
    I'll have to dig my XE-1 out of the car, but don't remember having that option in the menu. But if so it might be addressable via a firmware update. Admittedly you are the first person I know of to bring this up, so it's probably not registered on Fuji's radar.
     
  19. Wayne, I think you're right that this is not on Fuji's radar. To clarify again: I want the camera to focus on the half press then lock if kept on the half press ready for subsequent shots until the finger is taken off the trigger when the camera can then refocus on the next half press. No refocussing between shots when half pressed. DSLR guys shoot like this all the time, whenever the trigger is pressed the shutter opens, no delay.
     
  20. Did you try pressing half way to focus, then holding AFL with your thumb for as long as you want it to hold focus?
     
  21. Andy, yes, but why press two buttons when it can be done quicker, easier and more elegantly with one? I'm not looking for a work around, this can only be done in firmware. Two things surprise me 1.How difficult this is for some to grasp. 2. How few seem bothered by it especially as it affects all X cameras such as the X100s and X Pro 1.
     
  22. Hi again Miles, I think only now I fully understood your issue.
    I don't know if X100s and the other X cameras work the same way but my X100 needs pressure to be alleviated after each shot or it will be stuck and will not receive any pressure as a shooting instruction while in a DSLR (as my D700) when you half-press the button for it to lock and fully press to shoot, but this same position allows the camera to receive further pressures and will shoot.
    So these are here two different philosophies of hardware functions and I'm not sure if the distinct behaviors are only due to firmware instructions or also a physical matter.
    If that's the case, each time you soften the pressure the camera will refocus because understands coming back to half-pressure position as an order to do so, no matter if you're are able to control the movement (a very difficult and sensitive ability) in a way that doesn't interrupt the electrical conditions of the half-press position.
    But you also ask "why to press buttons when it can be done quicker, easier and more elegantly with one"?
    Well (and not having used your camera model) I would say that the speed advantage vanishes as soon as you get used and it becomes "automatic" as you will move the two fingers without even thinking about it, and would solve your problem being more than a work around because would allow you more flexibility as focusing at one point and measuring the light at another in the scene, quite useful when you use spot metering and one point focus outside the center and/or the point you want to measure the light at or to focus and reframe before shooting.
    But this is a personal opinion and doesn't mean you will not continue to prefer a firmware update to meet your wishes.
    All the best and Merry Christmas
    António
     
  23. Miles, I don't think it's surprising. Some people just don't agree with you that this is a big deal because they don't use the
    shutter button that way. If you don't want workarounds, what's your question?
     
  24. Gee, Andy I don't think I can make any clearer than I have already...
     
  25. Thanks again António, have a great Christmas too!
     
  26. a good deal for sure however it was the phase detect AF and snappier electronics that made me go for the XE-2. Don't get me wrong people, this a fine camera; superb image quality and excellent build quality. Just that as it stands it's more suitable for static subjects and bit trickier for on the fly stuff. There are work arounds, manual zone focus being one, but it could be so much better with a few lines of code...​
    well, i guess i'll find out how much of an issue this really is. for me, i was just getting my feet wet w/ fuji, being fairly invested in nikon, so couldnt quite pull the trigger on $1400 (w/ 18-55). i think i paid $900 for body+lens. the good news is, when the xe-2 prices fall in about a year or so, i can just pick up a body at a more reasonable price without taking the depreciation hit if i feel i need the PDAF. anyway, enjoy the camera miles and let us know how that works out for you.
     
  27. Thanks Eric; sounds like a wise strategy you've got there. I'm also mainly Nikon but am lured by the small size of the X cameras and their astonishing image quality. The cameras' handling and firmware will improve year on year hopefully mostly in the AF and EVF departments. I've been out shooting today and the overall experience is pretty good. I would also like the multi area autofocus to be more like Nikon's but the continuous AF is better than expected based on some of the reviews. I would also say that a really fast SD card is necessary; I'm now using a 90 mb read/write card and things are much smoother. I look forward to seeing how it works out for you Eric.
     
  28. thanks miles, i did a ton of research before settling on the x-e1. have to say i like fuji's photographer-centric approach, which is a bit refreshing, since nikon seems to have hit a wall as far as innovation. my plan is to go slow and maybe cop a few more lenses down the line as i get more familiar with the camera. i was also looking at the olympus om-d's but that seemed like a lot of $$ for a smaller sensor camera, especially once you factor in lenses, though the AF is reputedly blazing fast. i'm not looking to replace my D3s for action and events, but i think the x-e1 will be great for travel, candids, some street, and maybe even some PJ stuff. the fuji kit lens appears to be as good as advertised, great skin tones and even some background blur at 18mm. using a 16g sandisk extreme card. so far so good.
     
  29. Yes, Eric, I think the Fuji X is a good platform with sensors 65% larger than Olympus and 4/3 and therefore better ISO performance while not needing to be as large as full frame. The Fujifilm images seem to have more pop similar to the Leica M or Nikon D800, incredible engineering on their part; remember that they make the lenses and many parts for the medium format Hasselblad H cameras. It's great to have something with extremely high build quality too.
     
  30. I don't own any Fuji cameras, but have to give the company huge props for taking care of their customers
    with frequent and significant firmware updates, even for cameras that are not their latest.
     
  31. Brad, you're right, they really listen to the feedback and give customers what they want. I am looking forward to seeing the X series cameras improve and develop, and feel that this is the right platform for me as a smaller alternative when the Nikon is too cumbersome.
     
  32. sensors 65% larger than Olympus and 4/3 and therefore better ISO performance while not needing to be as large as full frame.​
    that was a big factor into my decision too. i was pleasantly surprised at how clean ISO 5000 was. the better than average kit lenses make a lot of sense too. the XPro2 could really be a game-changer for pros, although the small size of the X-E series make them really suitable--and capable--for casual photography.
     
  33. Eric, I'm finding ISO 6400 cleaner than the Nikon D700 which is quite remarkable. It also seems less likely to blow out highlights. If Fuji gets the X-Pro 1 right, and I think they will, it'll be the most attractive mirrorless system on the market, and I will surely buy one. It may prove to be the "digital Contax G2" that so so many have lusted for for so long...
     
  34. Put the Focus Mode of the camera on "M" and press the AE-L/AF-L button to focus.
     
  35. the issue is that after you decouple focus, you can't keep it locked. ... one good thing about the fuji 18-55 kit lens is the IS. in fact, the body-based IS on the Oly's is the one thing i wish the Fujis had. being able to handhold at slow shutter speeds is a big plus for light. compact bodies.
     
  36. Fuji has lenses comparable to the Canon L line, from build to optics. They're metallic from sun shield to mount, and the optics in my opinion surpass many Canon L's. As for the X-Trans sensor, it competes on a par with the 5D mark III and D800, in both level of detail and ISO. So much so up to ISO 6400 and 12800, but beyond that it starts washing colors a bit. But at ISO 6400 there's no difference between them. Probably the AF is the only big pro for the DSLRs (and the optical viewfinder).

    The Fuji X-E2 - all that you wanted to know
     
  37. I know this was an old post, but as of June, 2015, with firm-ware 3.0 it was still true: a half-press on the shutter button of an Xe-2 will focus, but you cannot take more than one shot without releasing the button, forcing you to focus again before you complete the button press to shoot ...only one more shot! This seriously slows down what is otherwise a wonderful, fast-response street shooter. True, some people don't care about this limitation, or that it is not the way other top-quality digitals operate. I do care, and agree with Miles that having the option to select the same behavior that my Canon DSLR has, would be a big advantage in speed, and no dis-advantage to those who don't care.
    Many experienced shooters use only the center focusing point when they focus, because it is always of the most highly-capable type offered in any given camera. I, for one, don't want the camera brain choosing what to focus on in my photos. I'll make that decision, thank you. Once focussed by a half-press of the shutter, I maintain that pressure while re-composing the shot without the focus changing. I can then take as many shots of this composition as I like, without re-focusing, as long as I keep the shutter button half-pressed, pressing fully only to take another shot. That way of working with electronic focus is so effective, and so wide-spread in other top brands, that it begs to be a standard option on any good camera. The option to select this behavior should be on Fuji's firmware revision list.
     

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