Frustrating

I know some of you know me on here a lot of you down I've got a bronica gs-1 6x7 film camera.

 

I have the AE prism finder on it which has the metering built in the problem I'm having is it's focusing.

 

The focusing screens on The bronica are notoriously kind of on the dark side.

 

I can deal with the screen being a little bit on the dark side the problem I'm having is nailing a sharp Focus. The camera has different diopters that you can change to help you with your vision I don't see well close up so I need + power. The diopter that comes with the camera is a standard - 1.5 it's for 20/20 vision which I don't have. finding the diopters for this camera is like looking for a needle in a haystack I did find one in China I mean Japan that was a + 2.5 diopter it was too strong I was unable to focus at all I need something with a little bit less power can't can'find when I've been looking all over the Internet and I can't find one.

 

There are more diopters available for the waist level finder I did find quite a few diopters for that the problem with that is I like to shoot portraits with a waist level finder you cannot flip the camera into portrait mode and use the waist level finder.

 

It's very frustrating I'm actually to the point of thinking of selling the camera it may for force me to go back to a auto focus digital camera which I don't want to do.

 

I've heard of people taking reading glasses finding the right prescription on that cutting it out and using that as a diopter I tried that that's a difficult task getting it to fit in the little square frame that's pretty much out I've called several Optical places and ask him if they could cut me a piece of glass out of a lens to fit inside my camera can't find anybody to do that.

 

I could get a waist level finder and I could probably find the right diopter but then I have to crop my photos to get them into the portrait mode.

 

Just wanted to blow some steam off I'm pretty damn frustrated and I don't know what to do. It sucks getting older when your vision is not as good as it used to be starts creating problems with auto focus and digital it's no big deal you could be blind as a bat the camera does all the focusing but when you have to focus in manual 25 year old film camera it's a whole different animal.

Have you considered seeing an optometrist? If the +2.5 is too strong, maybe a lens could be ground to fit the existing 2.5 frame. Some of the larger shops can grind lenses of many shapes.

Michael - I don't know if it will fit your camera or not, but my ETR line bodies had available a prism finder with built in adjustable diopter settings ... as I recall it was the AEIII finder with +0.5 to -2.5 continuously variable in the standard configuration and could be further extended with diiferent eyepieces.

I don't think the bronica ETR will fit the GS one I think the SQ the gs-1 in the ETR all take different parts.

 

The gs-1 has numerous diopters in - power and plus power the problem is finding them there next to impossible to find.

Here are my options I can get a pair of reading glasses to the right prescription have a piece of glass cut out of it and make a custom diopter don't know how expensive that will be.

 

Option to go with a waist level finder there are diopters available for that they are different than for the AE prism finder there more readily available there's t few out there that I found. Problem with the six by 7 format and a waist level finder is you cannot flip the camera on its side to portrait mode with a waist level finder I would have to take all of my shots with the camera in the regular position and crop them afterwards this could solve my issue.

 

I really don't want to sell my camera I really don't want to get a digital camera with autofocus I really love my camera if anybody's got any other ideas I'd love to hear them.

The standard recommendation for orphaned camera systems is what dennisbrown suggested: take the spare, useless +2.5 diopter to an optometrist or eyeglass shop, and have them replace the +2.5 glass in the frame with the diopter you require. It helps to have some idea what diopter you need: perhaps bring the camera with you to a drugstore, and try different diopters of reading glasses until you narrow it down? Whatever the optometrist charges will likely be within range of the inflated prices you'd pay for a "real" GS1 diopter, or not much more. It may help to get an introduction from a friend or relative who purchases their eyeglasses from a particular establishment.

 

Alternatively, theres another not-terribly-expensive thing you can try first. The Bronica GS1 uses a squared-off, slide-on groove for the rubber eyecup: within this grooved frame the separate diopter frame is affixed with a screw. The outer groove provided for the eyecup looks to be roughly the same width as the slide-on diopter frames of many other camera systems. The most common, cheap diopters second hand are those that were made for Nikon film cameras prior to the F3HP (variously labeled as F, F2, F3, Nikkormat, FM, or FE diopters: stick to FM/FE to guarantee the correct diameter).

 

Along with the Nikon FM/FE round diopter of your choice, you need the plastic Nikon DK22 adapter, which has the squared grooves for camera on one side and round threads for diopters on the other. You would slide the DK22 onto your GS1 eyepiece from the bottom, then screw the diopter into it. This trick has worked well on several cameras for me, but I don't know for sure if the Nikon DK22 will fit your GS1. Since the DK22 is commonly available on eBay for under $10, it wouldn't cost much to try. Perhaps measure the width of your GS1 eyepiece first, to see if its anywhere close to the DK22 width of approx 24mm? The DK22 attaches via somewhat flexible grooved plastic clips on either side, so there should be some wiggle room. Worst case, you could affix it with a bit of velcro etc. And if necessary, the top part of DK22 where the grooves stop could be filed or cut away to allow more precise placement over the Bronica eyepiece. If you can get the DK22 to fit the GS1, it would totally solve your problem: Nikon FM/FE diopters are plentiful in a wide range from -5 to +5 at prices from $10-$20.

 

It is possible the actual rectangular-syle diopters themselves might directly fit the GS1 (i.e., Nikon EM/FG or Canon EOS diopters). But the glass part of those is rather small and might vignette. The Nikon DK22 adapter permits the round diopters which are larger, and more likely to offer complete viewing coverage. Good luck!

Edited April 20, 2018 by orsetto

 

The DK22 measures approx 24mm from flat side to flat side. The round diopter diameter is approx 18-19mm. This is what it looks like:

 

I have taken the diopter out of my camera a little thinner through like you said it's a square diopter it's not round I've taken the day off after off and put several + 1 + 1.50 + 1.75 + 2 powered lenses in front of it it's a complete blur and I cannot focus on anything.

 

The diopter that is in it that is a standard diopter is -1.5 power or a 0 diopter which is basically for people to have 20/20 vision.

 

I am farsighted I do not see things very good closely eyewear eyeglasses that are + power. I believe I can take the diopter off talk to a little lens out of it which I've already done and make one myself maybe if I can find the right power from some eyeglasses to stick in it.

 

I like your Nikon idea I'm going to have to look into that it looks very interesting if I could somehow make that work.

Here are my options I can get a pair of reading glasses to the right prescription have a piece of glass cut out of it and make a custom diopter don't know how expensive that will be.

 

Option to go with a waist level finder there are diopters available for that they are different than for the AE prism finder there more readily available there's t few out there that I found. Problem with the six by 7 format and a waist level finder is you cannot flip the camera on its side to portrait mode with a waist level finder I would have to take all of my shots with the camera in the regular position and crop them afterwards this could solve my issue.

 

I really don't want to sell my camera I really don't want to get a digital camera with autofocus I really love my camera if anybody's got any other ideas I'd love to hear them.

 

 

 

this is the easiest diopter diy.

 

take the camera to rite aid and try their cheap reading glasses made of plastic so it will be easy to cut out your dopter. with no lens mounted, try the different power glasses till you find the one that focuses the lines n marks on the view screen as sharp as can be.

 

when cutting the lens, be sure to cut out the center of the lens. you mount your cut out directly over the one on your prism.

Obviously when I'm trying on these reading glasses at Rite Aid I'm putting them over my prescription eyeglasses that I wear all the time correct?

if thats what you use while shooting... yes.

 

but if you are wearing glasses while focusing, then the diopter in there should be fine since its balanced for 20/20.

 

if you need reading glasses while wearing glasses, then this will work just fine.

 

if you are far sighted, thats a different can of worms.

I'm I'm farsighted I don't see good close up I have a-1.5 diopter which is equal to zero in my camera now. When I take that diopter out of the camera and I put + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 lenses in front of where the diopter is and I leave my read my eyeglasses on I can't even focus it's just all blurred out so I don't even know where to begin to start.

 

If I leave the stock diopter in the camera and I put a + 1.5 lens popped out of a reading glass in front of the diopter there is an improvement it definitely improve the situation.

Hmmm... now that you've let us know you wear prescription eyeglasses for everyday sight, things might be a bit more complicated. Eyeglasses interact unpredictably with supplemental camera diopters, because camera makers are deceptive about their true diopter ratings. This makes using reading glasses at the drugstore as test mules (between your eyeglasses and the blurry camera) less accurate or effective, because the reading glass diopters often don't match the camera mfr diopters.

 

The problem is caused by mfrs like Bronica and Nikon making their default prism diopter a negative like -1.5 or -1.0. This completely throws off choosing a correction eyepiece, because you need to factor the existing permanent negative into the equation. In Nikon's case anyway, the diopter markings are off by a factor of -1 (so a correction eyepiece marked +1 is actually closer to +2, compounded by prescription eyeglasses you have a mess).

 

I sympathize, having had major focusing issues that I only recently figured out how to solve. All my life, I've been extremely nearsighted, but with my prescription eyeglasses could focus any Nikon or Hasselblad perfectly with no additional correction. Suddenly, about two years ago, my vision shifted, and all Nikon focusing screens became an annoying blur, just beyond the point of clarity (Hasselblad to a lesser degree). I tried every imaginable diopter, and all they did was make things worse. Finally, a few months ago I ran across a post advising Nikon users that the correction eyepieces are all off spec, and we shouldn't assume the standard eyepiece and the "0" diopter eyepiece were the same. The plain eyepiece that comes with the camera is the true "zero" since it has no diopter, but the PRISM optics themselves are still -1. The Nikon correction diopter marked "0" is actually "+1", which brings the prism optics back to true neutral. That did the trick: I can now focus better than ever thru the "0" eyepiece.

 

So if you opt to experiment with alternate camera brand diopters, you might want to start with the one marked as "Correction Eyepiece 0.0", which is really a +1 that brings the optics to neutral. Nikon also makes a fractional "+0.5" which might be more suitable depending on your eyeglass prescription. It is unlikely someone with prescription glasses (or contacts) would need anything stronger than +/-1.0 (the Bronica +2.5 you tried is probably a true +3.5, way too much: as you've discovered, a +1.0 or +1.5 is better for you).

 

Of course these warnings do not apply if you decide to go with Paul Ron's suggestion of cutting the actual drugstore reading glasses to fit the Bronica eyepiece. Since you would be using the same glass that worked for you in the drugstore to make the eyepiece, there is no discrepancy vs the camera mfr diopter ratings.

Edited April 21, 2018 by orsetto

It seems like there's no easy answer I have to wear glasses all the time permanently the rest of my life I've worn glasses basically all my life so I'm stuck wearing glasses.

 

Wearing glasses I think makes it much harder to dial in the diopter on the camera.

 

I'm going to go to the store I'm going to get everything from + 1 power up to + 4 power and and play around with it and see if I can come up with a solution.

I did it this way with my Pentax6x7 : I went to my optician (the shop who sells me my presbyt glasses) with my camera and had him test the exact correction that I needed. Then I ordered him the lens with the correct diameter to be placed in the eyepiece of the camera. This costed me less than to look for corrective lenses by the camera builder and could be adjusted to a fraction of dioptre.

 

Polka

Every optician that I've called refuses to do it, I have not had any luck trying to find someone to do this for me.

the other option... take the camera to a camera shop that has your camera brand diopters. that will allow you to try them all till you find the right one. i know people that did that at B&H. they had no problem bringing them all out.

 

(:

I was actually at a local camera store today looking at a couple of diopters that were angle like an like an L with magnification but there was no way to really mounted it, the mounting area on my diopter is different than your standard Nikon and every other camera it's larger.

 

That's what I'm going to do I'm going to keep calling some optometrist and see if I can find someone to help me and I'm going to take it into a camera store and look for diopters I'd rather just have a custom diopter made from an optometrist would be perfect I just keep call and see if I can find one most of them have turned me down.

No clue about optometrists. I think "impossible" is more likely to get used on the phone than face to face with you and hands on the problem?

 

Upon the diopters mess in general: Camera manufacturers tended to tweak their focusing screens perceived distance towards 1m.

What is the remaining focusing range of your eye? AFAIK glasses are made for infinity focus?

If your eyes are too old to perform great at 1m with glasses, I'd bet you might need a diopter in the +0.# range. At least that's my experience with adjustable DSLRs, infinity contact lenses and getting older. Pitfall: IDK where the drugstore reading aids start. Here I am stocked up with them but think I haven't seen any below +1?

 

Best of luck and happy shooting once your camera is adjusted.

Have you tthought about contact lenses? For you, not the camera!

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The DK22 measures approx 24mm from flat side to flat side. The round diopter diameter is approx 18-19mm. This is what it looks like:

 

If its 24 mm across it won't work mine is bigger than 24 mm across mine's like about 28 29 mm across I wish it would work that seem like a good way to go but it won't fit.

I'm sure somebody mention this in the thread but I read something on audoRama when I was looking for some diopters that you should go to your optometrist with your prescription and he can give you your diopter strength at 1 meter.

 

I guess he could just give you a test or something at one meter to reading stuff and give you the correct diopter that you would need to stick in your camera I'm going tomorrow to some optometrist to try this.

There are 2 things at play here, one is being able to properly focus your eyes on the screen, and the other is being able to determine sharp focus - which depends on the health of your eyes.

 

1) Prism finders are designed to place the viewing screen optically at 1m~infinity. The Bronica GS1 prism is probably at ~1.5m, as they label their eyepiece as -1.5. There is no standard for eyepiece diopter labeling, Hasselblad calls their default one "0". The actual eyepiece lens is not technically -1.5 diopter (which would be a concave lens with a focal length of -67cm) as it has to be a convex lens with a focal length around 15cm to allow you to focus on the screen. Using "diopters" makes it easier for people to determine corrections lenses, as a 1 diopter change is equivalent to moving the screen 1 meter closer or further away. So many camera makers call the base optics "0" or "1" as a reference.

 

If you can clearly focus on an object 1.5m away (ie: with your glasses), then the focus screen should be similarly sharp (with your glasses). You should be able to focus on the scribe lines on the screen. If not, then the dipoter has been changed, or something is out of whack. When you can clearly focus on the screen's scribe line, that is as good as it gets.

 

2) when my eyes were younger, I had no problems focusing with the Hasselblad Acute-matte screens. Very fine detail pops out at the point of focus. Today, I have difficulty with these screens, as I can no longer see that fine detail (unless I have a bigger magnifier). I find that aftermarket screens with a larger grain (courser ground glass mat) work better for me now. I also appreciate focusing aids more (split image/micro prism), but I usually prefer to focus with a plain ground glass.

 

So first, make sure you can clearly see something at 1~1.5m with your glasses. Add/subtract a diopter if necessary. Then see if you can see the focus screen in the prism clearly (ie: scribed lines). If this is all good, then if you cannot determine sharp focus of the lens in use, it is time for a different screen. Bronica makes a Microprism/Split-Image screen, which might be useful. I was looking for one of them years ago, but I'm pretty happy with my "Grid-Lines" screen with no focus aids, I actually find the Bronica GS-1 screens pretty good.

 

PS: Many years ago, I needed a -0.5 diopter change in a Hasselblad prism, and I asked my optometrist if he could source one when I was in getting new glasses, and he took a measurement of the eyepiece, and had a replacement lens made with a -0.5 diopter change. Today, you can order glasses on-line pretty cheap (less than it cost for that eyepiece), so I can get a pair of glasses made that gives me optimum vision at, say 1.5m. I can then use this for photography, and it is also perfectly suitable for everyday use.

Edited April 23, 2018 by tom_chow

That was a very good explanation you're you're right bronica does make a Split Image Focus screen it's like winning the lottery to find it you can't find it I've searched high and low and cannot find one.

 

I can have one made from Maxwell optics for $350 which would probably solve my problem but that's surely pricey.

 

I like the idea of getting a pair of glasses made that focus on 1 to 1.5 M and use those for my photography that's a very good idea I'm going to look into that.

I like the idea of getting a pair of glasses made that focus on 1 to 1.5 M and use those for my photography that's a very good idea I'm going to look into that.

While you are looking, ponder if you 'll want them to be both eyes at 1.5 -1m. Maybe keeping the not shooting eye corrected to infinity will inspire some landscape pictures? - IDK what you'll be comfortable with. There are lots of compromises to be made with aging eyes.