Four Corners Isn't...

<p>Word is that the fabled, and actually quite boring, Four Corners Monument is about 2.5 miles west of where it should be!</p>

<p>I dunno... Google Earth has it within 50 feet or so of the intersecting state boundaries.</p>

<p>http://www.panoramio.com//photo/10460640</p>

<p>that looks like a legal survey boundary marker to me. Doesn't really matter what any map says. Whether it was put in the right spot or not, that's where it is now and it IS the 4 corners.</p>

<p>You're right though it does look kinda boring and out of the way... I'll probably never make it there...</p>

<p>Well, the secret is that four Corners has ALWAYS been a boring place. Have a nice day! :o)</p>

<p>The confluence sits where it actually resides and it is not at the monument.</p>

<p>http://confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=37&lon=-109</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The border is not at the confluence.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument">Link</a></p>

<p>I read about Four Corners when I was a kid and, even then, it seemed boring.</p>

<p>Interesting. I always thought the rest stop wasn't the actual location because I remember stopping by the actual one in the 1980's and it was just marker and small monument. It was one of those, "Ok, that's nice.", moments, and drive on.</p>

<p>The one thing that gets overlooked with government boundaries is that it's not what the law says but what is actually surveyed. Once a marker is set in the ground, it's now the boundary. It's also why the US-Canadian border isn't what was agreed to (49th parallel) but a long north-south zig-zag line with the small chunk in northern Minnesota surveryed from Minnesota through Washington.</p>

<p>[[The border is not at the confluence.]]</p>

<p>No, the monument is not at the confluence. The borders were always intended to be but due to an error, were not surveyed correctly. </p>

<p>http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705298412,00.html</p>

<p> </p>

What did you expect? The marker was placed there by the GOVERNMENT, and when's the last time they did anything right?

<p>Four corners isn't photogenic. The surrounding scenery is bleak. And therein lies the beauty - its emptiness, forlornness, the desolation.</p>

<p>When my wife and I visited we had some interesting chats with the Navajo people selling jewelry. I thought it was a worthwhile stop, despite being a tourist trap.</p>

<p>This could be an entirely new Colorado tourism and marketing scheme.<br>

"Come find where the true boundaries are located!" People will be wandering all over with their gps units finding the new exact spot." Of course it will still be boring.<br>

And to all those people who thought they had a body part in each of the four states, you have been disqualified and must come do it again. Even Europeans and those from Asia, Australia, wherever. I'm going tomorrow.<br>

I'll bet someone is buying the land as we speak.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>If the incoming tide moves Plymouth Rock--------?</p>

<p>In response to, What did you expect? The marker was placed there by the GOVERNMENT, and when's the last time they did anything right?", as a retired USGS employee, it's reality of surveying. As I noted, once surveyed a point on the ground becomes the legal point regardless if it's located correctly. And if you would search the history, you will find it was origibnally surveyed in 1868 and establish in the early 1900's. Tell me anyone then was accurate, government or not. And it would obvious to anyone the last place you want to locate public monument is on top of the actual survery marker. It was likely a negotiation to give the Tribe an opportunity. It's an economically depressed area and every bit helps. </p>

<p>Errors are why there is a small piece of land in northern Minnesota which should have been in Canada instead of the US. This happened when the legally defined starting point is in the middle of Lake of the Woods and when they started on land they shortly discovered they were too far north. It was the 1800's. They didn't have sufficient maps to know this. The same applies to the California-Nevada state line. When the surveyers met at the point in the bend (north-south to northwest-southeast) the law defined they discovered it's in the middle of Lake Tahoe.</p>

<p>It's the nature and history of surverying, something which should be remembered. </p>

Scott, I wasn't implying that the surveyors got it wrong. They didn't have very sophisticated equipment back in those days. In fact it's amazing how accurate they were! I realize that lakes get bigger/smaller over time and that can change boundaries. When you look at early maps of the Mississippi river, they are no where close to what a modern map show.

<p>Thanks. The laws governing boundaries vary, especially involving private or government-with-private property where resurveying will redefine boundaries. Government-to-government boundaries, whether inter or intra national are fixed once located by surveys on land, but not water. It's why boundaries on land don't change despite errors, but boundaries down rivers or across lakes can change. The US-Mexico border in Texas is the best and most obvious example where land changes sides from the river flows, or as you note, the Mississippi River adds or subtracts land on each side for each state.</p>

<p>The same applies to Tribal Reservations where one Tribe lost land when the river changed channels and cutoff a floodplain area that was now legally outside the Reservation. The Tribe had to go to court to buy back the land from the new landowner and save the homes of the Tribal members. And A friend of mine in graduate school did his MA degree on the international border from the crest of the Cascades to the Peace Arch in Blaine, Washington and discovered the US gains 23 acres from the zigzag of the survey lines. He also hiked much of it (since it's a cleared path in many areas) and found you can actually see the offset from compass directions.</p>

<p>I arrived there late on a summer evening for a quick look a few years ago. The entry gate was locked tight and everyone had gone home. I have had a sense of sadness and deep regret ever since - until tonight.</p>

<p>Four Corners itself might be boring, but c'mon, that part of the country is a photographer's paradise, so much so that you have to get creative not to take a bunch of cliche-ridden pictures.</p>