Formal lighting

<p>I am looking for recomendations for return to alter and formal shot lighting and was wondering what everyone is

using?<br>

I have been using a couple of Nikon SB-800's for TTL and shots on the move, but I would like to step up my

quality of light on formals. I am looking for recomendations for equiptment that you are using as far as setup,

takedown and coverage.<br>

I have been researching a few like the photogenic line, starting with 2-500's, any suggestions as to what works

for you?<br>

Thanks in advance</p>

<p>My biggest issue is the time limitations I am faced with during that time. Getting all the combinations, the bride, the b/g, wedding party etc.... requires crowd control and most of my attention which typically leaves zero time to be fussing with mono lites and umbrellas. If you can manage an assistant with a speed lite mounted to a pole you can move him/her around to act as your key light and power down your flash for fill using a wireless trigger arrangement.</p>

<p>Time has never been a problem. I set the lights up before the ceremony and place them off to the side or lay them down on the side. Then it is simply a matter of moving them into place taking just a few seconds. During the setup I have determined the exposure and photographed a digital target for white balance. Take down is just a couple of minutes.</p>

 

<p>Speedlights will never match the power of strobes. I also have consistend 2 second (at full power) recycle time enabling a lot more images. Add to that a couple of large (60") umbrellas and I have a soft, large light source the minimizes shadows and what shadows are present are very soft.</p>

 

<p>My wife does the arranging and starts by including everyone. Then she starts tossing people out until only the bride is left. We can do an entire session in under 20 minutes.</p>

<p>I'm a big believer in off-camera lighting for formals. I have a complete set of studio strobes but I light my wedding formals with one 580EX and an umbrella. I will sometimes shoot the big group formals on the altar but never shoot small groups and the B/G there. I move my small groups to the aisle or anywhere else necessary to get the background I desire ( like a deep background shot with a wide angle. Typically, the altar is too "busy," (not to mention lit with spots).</p>

<p>I use one Sunpak 120J into a 46" umbrella as key, with the on-camera flash as fill. Works in most situations. One of the strengths of the 120J is variable power sources. I use an external battery pack, hanging from the stand, which helps weight it down. On 1/2 power, I can get f5.6 at ISO 400 (with the umbrella). It is placed about 12 feet from the subjects, aimed just slightly past the middle of the group to feather the light.</p>

<p>I try to set up the flash without the umbrella just before the ceremony begins, and often use it as rim light on the processional. I can set up the whole thing in about 2 minutes. I use Cybersync triggers. I have two 120Js, so I could set up another too, but usually don't. I don't like monolights due to their top heavy nature, and I don't like cords. You have enough trouble keeping kids from gravitating to your gear as it is, much less worrying about someone tripping on your cords.</p>

<p>Thanks Nadine and David.<br>

Thanks Raymond, what type of setup are you using?<br>

I'm looking to step up from the speedlights. While I have had great results with the 800's and a couple of Al Jacob's black boxes with a one light set up on a pole or light stand, I want to get F/8 at 100 and light the whole wedding party and get full length coverage. I don't want to get a debate started over the "which is better" just looking to see what is actually working it the field and to give my clients a little something extra.<br>

I was looking for recomendations on two and three light setups that people are using in addition to speedlights.<br>

I became intrested in the photogenic line after viewing an old Monte video. I know what you mean about kids, gear and cords. I have a few pocket wizards and noticed that you can buy the photogenics with the pocket wizards in, so that will get rid of the sync cords but I'll still need AC cords for them to trip over.<br>

There are also a few out there that can use battery and AC and was wondering if something like the photogenic studio max would be enough to get the group shots and do the classic formal shots. I just got done watching the new Will Crockett video on the portable Elinchrom's and I'm trying to decide if two lights on stands with batteries will give me the results that say two A/C 500s would give me. Then there is the debate as far as budget, for the cost of the Ranger pack and batteries, I could come away with an AC setup that would get the job done.<br>

I have been getting requests for the classic bride portrait and was thinking of having in addition to stobes, have an area set up with a two or three light setup.<br>

As always thanks everyone, your work is inspiring.</p>

<p>You may want to ask Marc Williams about the power levels needed for ISO 100, f8 at 12-14 feet, with a modifier. I know he has Profoto or Elinchrom units. Also, you might ask in the Lighting section. Ellis Vener can answer your question. These two can also give you suggestions for battery units and whether they are up to snuff.</p>

<p>I am sure you are aware of the extra carrying and time needed with these kinds of units. This is why I ended up with what I have. I don't have assistants and I have to go light and fast. By the way--I don't see much difference in file quality between ISO 100 and ISO 400 files, given good exposure, etc. If you are shooting 35mm full frame DSLR, I also don't see where you need f8. I was using f8 for medium format, for formals, with a normal lens. With my 50mm wide angle, I used f5.6, no problem.</p>

<p>Jim, I've heard a number of people advocating monolights and umbrellas but I don't understand the logic for group formals or the wedding party shots at the altar. You simply can't get an umbrella large enough to provide soft light for the groups. Now, if we're talking portraits of 1, 2, or 3 people, then I can get it, but in that case you need to move the umbrella in so close that you lose framing the altar environment. A combination of bounced speedlites, or diffused speedlites should supply plenty of light/power for most churches and in most cases, even softer light. If you do go with the monolights, I think it's best to avoid the power cords and get something capable of battery operation, and certainly avoid any units that require a power pack.</p>

David, I have to agree with you on the topic of umbrellas and group shots. Added to this is the problem of finding power outlets, running cords, power strips, simply takes forever to set up and tear down. You also have to worry about people wearing glasses. If you get reflections it's a big time pain to reset your strobe angles. For me, people at weddings just don't have the patients to stand around while you make these adjustments.

 

For altar shots I'm more concerned about lighting, mixing strobes with the alter lights that are on. Because of this I prefer back lighting the altar with a battery type of strobe. I generally us the wide angle attachment of the Quantum, placed on a 3 foot stand, place behind the bride and groom. You get a really clean look. You of course don't have to run out and buy a quantum system. You can actually us a very inexpensive Vivitar 283 or the 285, or your spare flash unit with the wide angle attachment that comes built in on Nikons and Canon strobes.

 

In general my altar settings are ISO 400, F5.6, at 30th of a second. I often put a strobe behind my camera on an 8 foot stand, set on manual power. Usually it's around 1/2 power. This allows me to have a constant repeating F 5.6, so I never have to worry about TTL or Auto settings or if the strobe is accurate on every shot. It's amazing how fast you can get through the formals when you use a manual strobe setting, because every shot comes out perfect. Needless to say there's little or no post production adjustments needed.

 

Jim, if you are really serious about Photogenics, I owned 6 at one time. They all died. Getting them repaired often took months, because the parts come from Germany. Because of this I use White Lightnings or the sister company, Alien Bees. The smaller units can be operated with the company battery pack, so you don't have to mess with cords and outlets. I've had to repair one unit that fell on me. I got the strobe back in a week and they didn't charge me. I was shocked. It was covered under their 5 year warranty.

By the way, I think White Lightning is coming out with something called a MAX. I think these strobe have a built in radio slave. It's not the pocket wizard. Here is a link for the remote control units.

 

http://www.alienbees.com/remotes.html

<p>I used to just use my Sunpak 120J bare, without an umbrella, just for the reason David mentions. However, I tried the umbrella once, and found that it does take the sharp, hard edge off shadows, just slightly. But is is enough for me to continue using the umbrella. Now if I were in one of these modern churches that was all white, with a medium ceiling, I might bounce instead.</p>

<p>Another alternative ... I enjoy it because it's assembled in a couple of minutes prior to a wedding and transported in a small padded gym bag. It serves as off camera lighting for formals when it's used with a large 60" optical white umbrella. Then later, at the reception, I can point the flash heads in any direction needed and I normally fire it with power at 1/2 on each speedlite.</p>

<p>It's not "top heavy" because I designed a stand that is a round base that sits on the floor so there's no legs for anyone to knock over. I use a very sturdy heavy duty light stand that I got at a very nice price because it was from a broken set.</p>

<p>Yup, it wieghs more than the norm but it's safe and it serves well for formals then pack it up in seconds by placeing entire unit in padded carry bag and take to reception where it can be set up in seconds for the reception.</p>

<p>Not recommending it ... just sharing. This is not my brainstorm at all ... it was inspired by photo.net posters who shared information. I do the same as a way to thank those who share information.</p><div></div>

<p>oops ... forgot to mention that I also use an on-camera flash unit to add any needed fill. The speedlites are pointed to the outside slightly to feather the light onto the group.</p>

<p>I currently do pretty much what William M is doing unless I need more power. When I do need more, I shoot through a 60" westcott with an AB1600 as key and fill from on cam.</p>

<p>David ... do you have any modifier on the AB1600 besides the 60" umbrella? Do you use a bare bulb or the small reflector and do you cover the small reflector with any kind of softening cover at all?</p>

<p>I have a White Lightning 800 but have not used it yet for formals but I like the idea ... I was a bit worried it would leave people on the sides a bit under exposed while the center of the groupings would be brighter. I guess not if you're using it with success.</p>

<p>I've been thinking of putting the beauty dish on the WL 800 to soften it just a wee bit before it goes through the optical white 60" umbrella for formal groupings.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Good information William, Bob, David, Nadine, Booray, and Raymond. Looks like this has become a definitive thread on the topic of external lighting for altar shots, I'll have to bookmark it for future reference.</p>

<p>Thanks All,<br>

William I have a home made bracket similar to yours that I have been using where I used the plates that came with the 800's. Not as pretty, but it works. I have been struggling with a decision but I do like the idea of one large Bee to compliment my SB-800's.<br>

If I could continue with your setup David, are you a Nikon Shooter? the reason I ask is triggering. I was thinking of having an SB-800 on camera and hook a pocket wizard into the sync port and then place another pocket wizard on the Alien Bee and not have the issues of slave triggering or being set off by another flash.<br>

William, I would like to get a look at the stand that you made.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>Bill, I found it in your stream, that's some website you have amazing photos.</p>

<p>Since we are sharing, here's an image of the way I use my Sunpak, bare bulb, to fill the entire umbrella. I also find it gives more power.</p><div></div>

<p>Thanks all. I'm going to continue with my SB-800's and the Al Jacobs batteries. I just purchased some monolights at a great price and will use them when I have an assistant that shows up or the event has the time or location to use them.</p>

<p>The key to shooting formals for me and validated by David Ziser's approach is to shoot through the umbrella instead of shooting into the umbrella as a reflector. This way you don't lose as much flash power.</p>