FOOTBALL PICTURES @ NIGHT WITH CANON 20D AND SPEEDLITE 580EX

Hello.

 

I posted a question earlyer about taking pictures at night with my Canon 20D

with a CANON 70-300MM F/4-5.6 IS USM LENS and Speedlite 580EX Flash

 

How should I set my camera on manual for the night shots using the above equiptment?

 

Can anyone help me the the set-up for the following:

 

DAY SHOTS

 

NIGHT SHOTS

 

I am taking football action shots at dusk and night under the lights.

 

Can anyone help me setup the camera?

 

Thanks.

 

Scott Southard

preflyt2@comcast.net

Isn't this pretty well covered in the instruction manual for the 20D? For night work, set

camera to manual exposure; shutter speed 1/200 or less; f-stop to whatever works (the

farther the subject, the wider the minimum aperture). Set flash to ETTL.

 

One issue you may run into is the range of the flash; football fields are quite large. I'd

suggest investing in a flash extender like the 'Better Beamer' (Google). This will give you a

couple of additional f-stops of light intensity (about twice the range), but only at focal

lengths above about 200 mm.

Scott, this works for me when shooting night time stadium HS football:

 

1. Leave the flash at home. How many times do we have to tell you that flash does not work for HS football! The guide numbers are to low. Put the camera in ISO 800 or ISO 1600. Try both to freeze movement as required.

 

2. Place the camera in Tv mode.....yes, Tv mode.

 

3. Bring a fast long prime, F2 or faster.

 

4. Place yourself on the field, on the side lines.

 

4. Set the shutter for the reciprical of your lens's focal length. If you're using a monopod or tripod you can slow this speed down. This will insure widest DOF for your general shots, without making the shutter speed too slow. For more selective focus shots, put the camera in Av mode, and open up the aperture.

 

5. Place the camera AF in servo mode.

 

6. Leave the flash at home.

 

7. Leave the flash at home.

Theoretically, the 580EX will offer a range of about 4 x 58 / 5.6 ~= 40 metres when you are using an aperture of f/5.6 and 1600 ISO and a focal length over 65mm. However, a) that calculation is in practice optimistic (since the guide number assumes there are some reflective walls and ceiling to help refocus stray light onto the subject); b) even for in range subjects you will be limited to one shot every few seconds while the flash recharges, so perhaps missing a number of action opportunities; c) the foreground will be much more brightly lit and overexposed, meanwhile the background will tend to be almost black - i.e. the inverse square falloff from the flash will give very uneven lighting. In short, flash is probably not going to help much - indeed it will probably be a hindrance to getting good shots.

 

Of course, with an f/5.6 lens shooting without flash even at 1600 ISO you will have difficulty getting an action freezing shutter speed under typical high school floodlights. As Pavel indicated, you'd need a much faster lens. The problem then becomes getting enough reach - your choices would all be primes at f/2 or faster... 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2, 135mm f/2L or 200mm f/1.8L - with the last two being rather more expensive (and the 200 is only available second hand for several thousand dollars).

 

Even with the lenses, you could find that you had almost insurmountable problems due to mains frequency cycling of the lights causing variable exposure and possibly cycling colour balance. Don't invest in lenses until you are sure that you won't suffer from these problems unduly - use a cheap 50mm f/1.8 to test the lighting out, or even shoot a roll of 1600 ISO Fuji film on a cheap film SLR with such a lens. The only ways of getting round those problems is shooting the scrimmage prior to the snap at 1/125th (roughly the duration of half a 60Hz mains cycle, so giving even lighting), or persuading the school to invest in TV broadcast quality lighting - in which case you could make do with an f/2.8 lens (the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 would be a good candidate).

 

I would not follow Pavel's advice to shoot in Tv mode. Instead, providing that light levels aren't changing too fast, I'd meter an exposure in M mode using the grass as a mid tone target. In daytime, I'd set the aperture to the widest available at all zoom lengths you might use (so probably f/5.6 with your 70-300), and try to adjust ISO to give a shutter speed of at least 1/500th to freeze motion. The point is that you don't want the camera to change exposure just because the frame is dominated by a player in a particularly dark or light strip. You might have to resort to Av mode (which will give you the fastest available shutter speed for the aperture and ISO) if the sun keeps going in and out behind the clouds, or if part of the pitch is in sun and another part is in shade - shooting in those conditions can be much more tricky - but make sure your ISO is set to give a fast shutter speed in the darker conditions. If you become skilled, you may be able to adjust exposure on the fly in M mode to account for the different light, but you will have a lot else to take care of with focus and framing and shooting. As dusk approaches, keep your eye on how the grass meters in between plays, and boost the ISO further to keep the shutter speed as high as you can for correct exposure. Once the light fades to the point that you are getting at best 1/200th at 1600 ISO, you probably should give up for the day or turn to shooting the cheerleaders, as shots will increasingly suffer from motion blur, and you'll be wishing you had better lights or at least a fast prime lens or two.

 

You may find that it is best to shoot RAW and adjust in post processing, even at the expense of reduced burst depth, rather than shooting JPG and trying to keep up with changing white balance as daylight fades (and especially if the lights exhibit colour balance cycling). As you move to high ISO, your shots will need to be processed through noise reduction software (Noiseware, Noise Ninja, etc.) as well as being corrected for white balance and then selectively sharpened. RAW files will stand the extra treatment needed better.

 

You will also find it useful to learn how to get the best out of AI Servo focus - read these tips:

 

http://www.shutterfreaks.com/Tips/CanonAIServo.html

<I>How many times do we have to tell you that flash does not work for HS football! The

guide numbers are to low.</i><P>

 

Hmm. Let's see here. The 580EX has a guide number of (roughly; dependent on the focal

length setting of the flash head) 160 at ISO 100. That means the GN is about 600 at ISO

1600. With an f4 lens, that's a range of 150 feet. Put on a Better Beamer for your >200

mm shots and you roughly double the range to about 300 feet... more or less the length

of a football field. At f5.6 the range drops to about 200 feet, which isn't bad. So I'd say

the dogmatic assertion that "flash does not work for HS football" must be viewed with a bit

of skepticism.<P>

 

Related examples: <A HREF="http://faculty.ucr.edu/~chappell/INW/Bosque/

eveningcranes.html">these pictures</a> of sandhill cranes (and <A HREF="http://

faculty.ucr.edu/~chappell/INW/Bosque/eveningcranes2.html">these</a>) were all taken

at ranges to the subjects exceeding 100-150 feet (some considerably longer), at ISO 400,

at apertures of f5-f11, with a 550 EX (less powerful than the 580 EX). These ranges were

similar to what you'd find at a typical high-school night football game, but there will be

more ambient light for the latter (no floodlights on these birds).

I'm sure a Better Beamer does an excellent job with nature subjects picked out with a really long focal length lens such as the sandhill cranes shot with 500mm and 1.4x TC. However, it narrows the flash beam so that it has to be removed from the flash when shooting nearby sports action for which a focal length of somewhat less than 200mm on a crop body may be required (try doing that when the play lasts maybe 5 seconds) - moreover, it won't really solve the problem of flash recycling time (no 5fps sequences with flash, I think!) or inverse square falloff, both of which affect the sport shooter. Additionally, the ambient light contribution to the exposure becomes a problem for the sport shooter both in terms of mixed lighting making a mess of colour balance (I can't imagine trying to gel the flash for some changing mix of stadium lights and dusk glow), and also through its contribution to motion blurred shots due to the limitation of max X sync speed. Flash range really isn't the key issue here - it's a case of horses for courses.

That lense is too slow, and stopped down it's horribly soft. Loose the flash! Rent or buy a 70-200mm F2.8 IS. Shoot at 800-1600 iso.

<I>I'm sure a Better Beamer does an excellent job with nature subjects picked out with a

really long focal length lens such as the sandhill cranes shot with 500mm and 1.4x TC.

</i><P>

 

And it will provide the same exposure over the field of view of a ~ 200 mm lens on a 20D, or

a ~300 mm lens on 35mm film or FF digital. I concur that it would be a pain to alternate

between adding and removing the Better Beamer, but the point remains that it's quite feasible

to get usable light levels from a 580-type flash over distances of a couple of hundred feet or

more.

"How many times do we have to tell you that flash does not work for HS football!"

 

This will come as news to the hundreds of HS football shooters for small papers across the country. From the days of the Speed Graphics to todays digital HS football and Flash continue to work well for many.

Not true Daniel...I've been to countless night pro ball games and NOBODY, no pro uses a flash....granted the lighting is broadcast quality, but still you'll find no pro on the side lines using a off the shoe flash.

 

The Better Beamer concentrates the light too much...I had that snoot, and it worked great for wildlife afar, but for a scrimmage, I doubt it would even come close....probably give a burned in effect in the middle of the composition.

 

I stand by what I wrote earlier....for nighttime football, the external flash is not going to help. Better to rent a fast prime telly, just like the pros use at pro ball games.

 

Now if the HS had better lighting that would only improve one's chances.

The NFL and most colleges have a no flash rule which is why you don't see flashes used

at those sites. At the high school level everyone I know shoots with flash. It is a necessity

since without it you would not get a fast enough shutter speed--regardless of the speed

of the lens you've using.

"Not true Daniel...I've been to countless night pro ball games and NOBODY, no pro uses a flash....granted the lighting is broadcast quality, but still you'll find no pro on the side lines using a off the shoe flash."

 

I have done a number of NFL games and you are right, NO flash. Use it and get thrown out. If it were allowed a number of shooters would use it if for nothing more than fill to help with faces in helmets and controlling contrast a bit better.

 

On the HS level flash is used a lot by news shooters. If you go to sportsshooter.com (think that is the correct name of the site) and look at the forums you will see that some full time news photogs use flash for HS work. The way you work, the way I work and the way Scott works are not the way everyone does. Flash works in sports for many and is in use regularly.

While we are on the flash topic. Am shooting HS football tonight and will do some with the 30D with the pop up flash as well as the 550 and post the comparisons of flash/no flash so we can all see the results. Will do across the field as well as 30 to 60 yards downfield.

Sounds good Daniel....also try some shots with the flash off for comparisons.

Take a look at the original topic. I posted three images there. One to show the raining conditions. One with NO popup Flash and one with the PopUp flash. Shutter speed is the same on all three. Lens is the same. Aperture is the same. The referee is lit pretty well by the field lights. He is in the center of the field.

 

The sideline shots of the guys with the umbrellas is much more dimly lit as the light isn't as good there. Just right for the popup flash test.

All are at 1600 ISO equivalent on the EOS 30D.

 

The distance on the popup comparison is right at 60 yards. I am on one 20 yard line and the guys under the umbrella are at the other 20 yard line, same side of the field.

 

I didn't do much in the way of flash as I don't normally use it but figured the test was worth the effort so I know what the camera will do.

 

Exposure was dialed to minus 1/3 stop under 'normal' as my 30D seems to require that for most exposures. It reads a bit hot and this tames it.

 

With Photoshopping one can use this combination at minus 2 stops if you are willing to give up a bit of detail. Workable for many situations in poor lighting.

 

Check out the other thread and take a look at the comparison photos and see what you think.<div></div>

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IHlN&tag=

 

The above is the link to the earlier discussion topic.