Focusing on portraits

<p>I'd like to first start out by thanking another Photo.net subscriber, William W. who helped a lot in the portrait forum. My question here pertains to the camera I'm using and an issue I was running into during one of my first portrait shoots. It was an outdoor session, I had the couple riding a bicycle at times and just generally letting them interact with each other. I was using my D7000, I rented a Sigma 85mm f/1.4 and was having trouble with the lens auto focusing on the faces/eyes. I switched to manual focus but even with slow walking around or even just posing it was too slow to get the focus point where I wanted it and then focus meter etc..<br>

Are there other Nikon bodies that would do a better/faster job at getting focus on the face/eyes? I look at the mirror less bodies like GH4, EM-1, with touch focus and wonder?</p><div></div>

<p>another example of work done, these are the ones that were mainly in focus.</p><div></div>

<p>The D7100 has better (faster and more precise) autofocus than the D7000, but even then you are not likely to get 100% of the shots focused on the eye at f/1.4. At f/2.8 achieving acceptable focus is easier. I would accept that there is some stochastic nature in autofocus and grab a few frames each time, and pick the best one. You should also fine tune the focus of your camera and lens to be sure that there is no systematic error.</p>

<p><em>I look at the mirror less bodies like GH4, EM-1, with touch focus and wonder?</em><br>

<em><br /></em>Are you talking about a feature where you touch a point in the LCD and it focuses on that area? For extremely shallow depth of field work just a slightest movement of the camera relative to the subject after the focus is completed would throw focus off. I think it is best to keep the camera against your face for better stability. I would test the camera with the lens you intend to buy in a realistic shooting environment before committing to the purchase of a new camera. My personal choice would be either the D810 or the D7100 if you want to shoot portraits and some moving subjects (such as people walking towards the camera, riding a bike etc.) and specifically want the best autofocus (D4s could be even better but it is not very cost-efficient and comparatively low resolution). I notice that in the bike shot there is also some movement blur; if you want to freeze the movement and that way get the sharpest results, you should use at least 1/500s shutter speed if not faster. The D7100 is an excellent camera and would work with your current lenses.</p>

 

<p>As Ilkka mentioned, for the bike shot, your panning technique has to be perfect at the 1/125 it's taken on or there's going to be apparent camera shake. Sure you want a movement-blurred background and a sharp subject, but that's a pretty tricky skill. Equally, wide open the DoF is going to be very thin. Combine the 2 factors and you're playing the odds...1 in 10 maybe?</p>

<p>There maybe, emphasis on <strong><em>maybe</em></strong>, an issue with the Nikon body not playing nicely with a non-Nikon lens. Try a Nikon 85mm f1.8 AFS and see if there are the same probs.</p>

<p>Late Edit.<br>

Just noticed this bit..</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I switched to <strong>manual focus</strong> but even with slow walking around or even just posing <strong>it was too slow</strong> to get the focus point where I wanted it and then focus meter etc..</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Could you explain a bit more about this process..are you using MF with the Green dot?</p>

<p>Later Edit<br>

You could try Face-Detect AF and see if it will follow the rider/passenger?</p>

Yes Mike, I switched the lens manual focus and then was looking for the green dot in the view finder, this is ok for me

when shooting stills/ landscapes, not portraits. I'm self conscious about how long I'm taking to take the shot with a

person.

<p>Kyle, first off I am no expert in portraits, so I cannot comment very specifically, but I think it comes down to generically how to deal with autofocus and how to focus manually.<br>

For the latter, the green dot is nice, but when working with off-centre focus points, it's not always very accurate in my experience, especially with fast primes. I use the green dot only if I have plenty of time; else - just the viewfinder. Unfortunately, the viewfinder in nearly all DSLRs isn't optimised for manual focus, nor for very fast lenses. The full frame cameras have a big advantage here, though I could work just OK with my D300 (viewfinder very similar to the D7000); I have pretty good eyesight though. I know quite a lot of others who found it not so doable.<br>

As for the AF not really working out - a lot also depends on the settings you were using. The sensitivity of the AF points is not all equal, and unfortunately those more likely to be used for eyes (close at the thirds - the edge AF point) are not as sensitive as those in the centre. That makes them less responsive also for any continuous AF. Focus & recompose (using the centre focus point) could to the trick, but with very shallow DoF it fails easily as well. And of course, there are the various continuous AF modes which differ in responsiveness as well. So it could help understanding how you configured the AF on your camera.</p>

<p>What focus modes are you using? How many points, and what area?</p>

I was using AF- S and AF-C all 39 points

<p>I do a lot of portraits in natural light/settings. Not a lot of moving people, but I do a fair amount of shots of a moving toddler! I have a D7100 and use a lot of lenses, usually my two kit lenses: Nikon18-70 and Nikon18-105, but I also use the AF 50mm 1.8 and some manual lenses at times (50 1.4, 55 micro, and 105 2.5). When my subjects are moving, I use the AF kit lenses, wide open at whatever iso I need to get a shot. I use exclusively a single point focus and "lock on" the features I want focused. Check out my people folder for lots of different examples: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=257117 At a family reunion last hear I got this shot of running boys using the single point focus: http://www.photo.net/photo/17478347&size=lg</p>

<p>Most peeps use AF so using manual may appear archaic and not v. efficient. Recently I had to shoot a person on a bike and two people on bikes (two seperate shoots - different days too). I made this easy and <strong>in</strong> <strong>manual</strong>: picked the background (frame) and set the biker/ers in the foreground. I gave them specific phys mark to hit....like scratching a line in the dirt or couple of small rocks, etc. (whatever handy). Anyway, I placed the subject within this boundry, set the focus and light-meter the scene...and I had to mark my own spot, as well. During the actual action, I didn't have to focus (that was all preset) and just concentrate on the framing....to get the results I desired. I gave the subjects little leeway (only few inches) to hit the marks and shot it with closing the aperture a bit (F5.6 or 8). I did 3 tries, also using motorized drive....starting just a smidgen before the (preset) <strong>correct spot</strong>. Consequently, I had several good keepers to choose from.</p>

<p>That said, if the action is random this would be way more difficult, but with practice it's also possible. For many years (before AF) photographers used manual with excellent results. I'm not saying this to start a AF vs MF debate. Anyway, you do potato and I do poutato :>)</p>

<p>Les<br>

</p>

<p>interesting thread. i use the sigma 85/1.4 often on a D3s. it works just as good as any of my OEM nikkors. i shoot a lot of low-light stuff between f/2-2.8 mostly (if i need to stop down more than that i might as well use a 70-200), concerts and what-not. so the subjects are frequently in motion. i got the sigma purposely because the AF speed had good reviews.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I was using my D7000, I rented a Sigma 85mm f/1.4 and was having trouble with the lens auto focusing on the faces/eyes. I switched to manual focus but even with slow walking around or even just posing it was too slow to get the focus point where I wanted it and then focus meter etc..<br /><em>Are there other Nikon bodies that would do a better/faster job at getting focus on the face/eyes?</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>it's really not surprising that your subject-in-motion portrait didn't nail focus, although it would have been helpful had you posted an example of a missed shot instead of the tamron pic.</p>

<p>short answer to your question is, it depends. it has a lot to do with the body/lens combo, but also the focusing mode and shooter's methodology. anything moving should be in AF-C, as the camera will make micro-adjustments once focus has locked. you also want to use "CH" which vastly increases the chances of getting at least one shot in a sequence in focus. the D3s is excellent at this but doesn't have a 100% keeper rate. with a 1.4 lens, i rarely shoot wide open unless the subject is not moving at all. note that with AF-C, you don't want to use focus-and-recompose. with static subjects, you want to shoot in AF-S and use focus and recompose as necessary, although this can lead to focus errors at the widest apertures. stopping down to 2.8 will give you a bit more leeway than 1.4 or f/2, but in the sigma 85 pic you posted, there's no need to shoot at 2.8 at all. there's not enough distance between subject and background to render subject isolation, and not only are you in good light, but you're using flash. so you could have stopped down to 5.6.</p>

<p>in any event, i'm not going to suggest that you need a new camera just to take portraits. i think it's really just a matter of improving technique and learning the camera's limitations and strengths a bit better, as well as what it does with particular lenses. the D7000 has 39-pt AF and should be good enough for anything except maybe extreme sports/action. i really dont recommend shooting in manual focus for a wide-aperture portrait except maybe in a posed studio shot.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>There maybe, emphasis on <strong><em>maybe</em></strong>, an issue with the Nikon body not playing nicely with a non-Nikon lens. Try a Nikon 85mm f1.8 AFS and see if there are the same probs.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>this is pretty unlikely, as the d7000 is older than the sigma 85. more realistically, it just comes with the territory of shooting at wide apertures and the realities of autofocus, that it needs contrast to be able to lock on.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You could try Face-Detect AF and see if it will follow the rider/passenger?</p>

</blockquote>

<p><a href="https://www.flickr.com/groups/nikond7000cafe/discuss/72157627599191266/">the D7000 doesnt have Face-Detect AF</a>. (only the d4s and d810 have this feature, AFAIK). it does have an auto-area AF mode, but face detection on a d7000 only works in Live View mode. in any event, i wouldnt use this mode for tracking subject motion, as it can select a bunch of focus points automatically, not necessarily what you wanted it to focus on.</p>

<p>anyway, here's a few grab shots with the d3s/sigma 85 combo.</p><div></div>

<p>sorry, that shot was f/2.5. this one is 2.2, 1/160, ISO 6400.</p><div></div>

<blockquote>

<p> I gave the subjects little leeway (only few inches) to hit the marks and shot it with closing the aperture a bit (F5.6 or 8). I did 3 tries, also using motorized drive....starting just a smidgen before the (preset) <strong>correct spot</strong>. Consequently, I had several good keepers to choose from.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

this is the zone focus method, which is used a lot in street photography. it works best at deeper apertures, i.e. 5.6-11. i wouldn't use it at all if you're any wider. i sometimes do this with wide angle lenses for an over-the-head crowd shot or something like that.</p><div></div>

<p>Eric, try the D90 onwards..:-)</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/d90/en/advanced-function/</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>it's a good read from the past. Not up to the D4, but it's been there a while.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>When shooting in Auto-area AF mode, the camera quickly focuses on the main subject by detecting foreground, background and subject position. When using 3D-tracking (11 points) mode, the camera uses your subject’s color and brightness information to keep it in sharp focus as you change the composition.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>so it says, but this doesnt really work in practice. i have a d90, d300s, and a d3s, and i don't use this mode on any of them. also the d90 has only one cross-type AF point, and is not known for stellar focus acquisition when shooting action at anything other than the center AF point. i prefer to select my own AF point, because auto-area AF mode will just grab as many AF points as it can. that's something you really don't want when shooting at wide apertures, trying to emphasize subject isolation. my understanding is that they finally got this feature right with the latest generation of flagship cameras (d4s, d810). in any event, i wouldn't recommend this feature even if it worked better because it's not really teaching you good technique.</p>

<p>the bike shot you're showing IMO technically is more of an action shot the a portrait shot.</p>

<p>Where with a 'real' portrait (as in the second picture) the subject is static and AF-S is indeed a valid solution, with an action shot you'll need a completely different approach to your AF settings.</p>

<p>As already said , to begin with AF should be set to AF-C. Then you should also change the rest of the settings (Dynamic AF, nr of AF points, AF tracking etc) in order to get and keep the moving subject in focus.</p>

<p>I a.o. have a DF which basically has the same Nikon 4800 AF module as the D7000 (which has the 4800DX version), and even if not on par with eg the D3 and D800, it's very capable enough for use with fast moving subjects.</p>

<p>Shortly after I got mine, I, after having read all the stories on the 'awfull AF of the DF under bad light, as a torture test, went out to shoot a catwalk show in a local shopping mall (actually the very first shoot I did with it, and consequently made quite some mistakes with the other settings on the camera). Apart from the fast moving models, an extra pain factor was that the lighting (only) consisted of a mixture of the lights of the windows high up in the building, and that of the window displays of the shops, and that I was using a 70-300VR zoom near wide open. So although I wasn't shooting a 1.4/85mm ( I have the AF-D version so have experience with this type of lens) basically I also had to shoot moving subjects with a shallow DoF as I also had to dial in a fast shutterspeed to avoid motion blur. The DF was quite up to it, http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/catwalk_new_babylon and so would I expect the D7000 based on the specs have been.</p>

<p>IMO manual focusing with a very shallow DoF and fast moving subject really is not a viable, and with modern AF no longer necessary option (done that a lot in my film days in the 80's/90's with eg 4.5/80-200, 2.8& 4.5/300mm manual lenses shooting catwalk. I did have keepers, but a major part would usually be OOF).</p>

<p>Nor is zone focussing (creating a zone within which everything is sharp, based on the hyperfocal distance of a lens at a certain aperture and distance). Although that technique is very handy when shooting eg big crowds, in particular when using a wide angle, or with longer lenses when shooting panning shots (those shots are usually taken with more closed down aperture and a longer shutter speeds for a blurry background and the impression of speed).</p>

<p>nice shots, paul. but obviously, you've shot catwalk before. in the OP's case, he clearly says the shoot was one of his first portrait sessions. i agree the d7k's multi-cam 4800 should be good enough to track moving objects, but the OP's question was, is this a body issue or a lens issue? the answer, of course, is most likely neither, it's a technique issue. it's possible the d7000 had <a href="http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/42059/how-can-i-fix-my-nikon-d7000s-back-focusing-problem">backfocus issues</a> or the lens needed AF fine-tuning, but since the OP hasn't posted any 'what went wrong' shots, there's no way to know for sure why he wasn't able to focus on the eyes. did he try shooting a headshot with shallow depth of field?</p>

<p>similarly, there's no reason to shoot a panning shot at 1/100 in good light. Most focus errors are caused by too slow of a shutter speed, period. aka human error. 1/500 would have deaded all motion blur in that shot, but 1/250 should have been enough to freeze it.</p>

<p>if i'm renting a lens, i would at least check to make sure it autofocused correctly before using it. so i'd check focus acquisition at 1.4, f/2, 2.8, f/4, 5.6. i'm probably not going to need to shoot below 5.6 with an 85. resorting to manual focus might only make things worse, especially if i'm at or near wide open, unless i'm on a tripod.</p>

<p>using the dummy AF-area mode as was suggested is precisely what you <em>don't</em> want to do, i.e., take the control of focus point selection out of your hands. the only time you'd ever want to use this mode is when you literally don't have time to select focus. i remember playing around with this on my d300 a few years back and concluding it wasn't very accurate or precise. sometimes 4 AF areas would lock; sometimes 40. what is more helpful, is knowing when to use AF-S and when to use AF-C. for a posed shot like the second pic, you'd want to use AF-S. for a subject motion pic like the first pic, you'd want to use AF-C. you still need good technique to ensure the focus goes exactly where you want it.</p>

Yes, buy the new cameras you mentioned. 99% of the time not getting the results you want can be resolved by buying a

new camera rather than understanding what you are doing.

<p> At f1.4 the DoF is extremely narrow and even slight movements by your subject will quickly change the focus point. I rarely use f1.4.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>Eric, did you follow your own Flikr link leading onto the D7000 manual? (page 50 of the English PDF) It has <em>exactly</em> the same Face-Detect AF as the vaulted D4 and D800/810....just as my D5300 has etc etc. They are also ONLY available in Live View. Interesting if Subject Tracking or Face Priority AF is better?..I suspect the latter.</p>

<p>Now I guess if they are on such <em>professional</em> cameras as those, it should probably work sometimes??</p>

<p>However, in keeping with the educational tone of this thread (rather than Auto AF Targeting etc) I'd have thought something like 1/250 f4, 9-Point AF-C 'aimed' at the pretty girl's head and panned gently to keep them centralish should have found focus OK. I'd guess the camera <em>might</em> grab the door-frame as being a good high-contrast marker if it loses the people. The D7000's predictive nature of AF-C in half-press should keep up OK with Menu a4 set to Normal.</p>

<p>Not sure if I think a tripod is handy here with a video or panning head? maybe!.....not so much for stability, but for smoothness and predictability of tracking. After the first pass the 'driver' can follow the wheel marks!</p>

<p>Many people use the AF-ON or back button focussing so as to <em>separate</em> AF activation from 'Fire' with the shutter button!</p>

<p>If they did 4 passes, I'd expect 2 or 3 to be perfect. Get a local friend to cycle around you for practise before trying a real shoot. <br>

_______</p>

<p>As a slight aside, anyone reading this post with a current generation DSLR has Face-Detect AF in LV as an option, they should just switch it on and see how well it works before denouncing it as a worthless gimmick. It might just surprise you.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>It has <em>exactly</em> the same Face-Detect AF as the vaulted D4 and D800/810</p>

</blockquote>

<p>no, nikon improved FD in the 810 and D4s. not the same as earlier cameras. mike, i have to ask, since you are so gung-ho, have you ever used this feature?<br>

LV is too slow in Nikon's to use for many practical shots. </p>

<p>There's a first! Never been called Gung-ho before...:-)</p>

<p>But yup, quite often. I tried it on faster action like trotting horses (Rider's face....not the horses!), but it was indeed too slow. However, for people wandering about, it was quite capable of a) finding a face and b) keeping focus on it in quite a dim room. Maybe the D5300 has improved LV AF? It's certainly way better than my D90, D300 and a bit better than my D5100. I don't have a 'recent' FX to try it on. </p>

<p>The aperture's 'behaviour' in LV is a bit unpredictable, but using f4 should allow adequate AF speed.</p>

<p>Slow cycling-by wouldn't be a problem for it, especially in light like that.</p>

<p>Eric, I gotta ask, have you actually tried it on a current generation DSLR?</p>

<p>" I rarely use f1.4."<br>

Kent in SD<br>

My intended purpose for the wide aperture was to blow out the back ground on some shots, but I think I got caught up in the moment and forgot to adjust it on others. </p>

<p>my most 'current' DSLR is a D3s. it's actually quite pointless to talk about features which neither of us seem to have used. LV is only suitable for seated portraits, so i'm not sure why you are going on and on about its use. the bottom line is, the OP needs to firm up his technique. the d7000 is clearly not the limiting factor in his issues with portraits...</p>

<p>For slow cyclists, I'd say try it and see, that's all. It's a tool like any other to try in the armoury. To just <em>assume</em> it won't work is a very negative approach to new tech.<br>

<br>

LV focussing is far more accurate than phase detect anyway....just a bit slower. It would also do away with any front or back AF issues this camera-lens combo <em >may</em> have.<br>

</p>

<p> </p>