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FM3A vs FM2(n)


laura_caldwell1

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I have since my last posting done some more research into weather or

not to buy one or the other - a Nikon FM3A or a FM2(n).

 

I know the FM2's are a great buy right now because of the intro of the

FM3A's, i also know that the FM3A is a creation that puts all the best

from the FE and the FM2 into one PLUS some additional goodies. With

that said one would assume that I should buy the FM3A right?

 

Well, I have used neither and would really appreciate some feedback on

the performance of the FM3A and the FM2. Anyone with pros and cons of

either body would be greatly appreciated. please do not reccomend

other bodies as i have narrowed it down to these two. I plan to buy

one of the two this weekend. So far, i am leaning twoards the FM3A. Am

I on the wrong track here?

 

Thank you to all who reply.

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Laura,

Either one are great cameras. I've owned the FM2 in the past, recently got the FM3. I can discern no difference between the two re: build quality, handling, etc. I'm sure you know the features of both. I like the aperture priority mode, fill-flash button and film window and DX coding. The only thing it took getting used to was the match needle metering - I was so used to the diodes of the FM2. However, I love the FM3 more. I got it with the 45/2.8p and it's rapidly becoming my favorite setup - I tend to grab it now before the F100. Depending on how much flash work you do, and whether you'll use the aperture priority auto mode should probably be the deciding factor. You can't go wrong with either, but my vote is for the 3.

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There is nothing the FM3A can do that the FM2N can't do, in the hands of a skilled photographer. The FM3A has a couple of problems compared to the FM2N: first, the FM3A meter indicator does not work properly with f/1.4 lenses. When you change the lens aperture from f/2 to f/1.4, the needle moves only 1/2 to 2/3 stop instead of one stop. I suppose you can work your way around this one, or avoid using f/1.4 lenses altogether, but it's a PITA either way. Second, the FM3A's finder gives annoying side reflections if you have anything bright in the viewing area. This includes light sources, TV screens, windows, etc. At best, it's a distraction, and at worst, it partially washes out whatever you're trying to compose.

 

<p>This is not based on hearsay or internet reviews - I had two new USA FM3As from B&H, as well as 28/1.4, 50/1.4, and 85/1.4 AFD lenses. After confirming my above problems with display models of the FM3A and new in box 50/1.4 AFD at the local Ritz, I returned my FM3As and went back to FM2Ns (of which I now have 4).

 

<p>Unless you have a pressing need for aperture-priority AE or TTL flash, I'd get an FM2N. It's a design that's been proven by hard professional use through the 80s to the present. Regarding parts, that's hogwash - Nikon Torrance says it will have parts for years to come, and there is a policy at the factory to keep parts in stock for 10 years after a model is discontinued. Even after 10 years, the FM2N and its variants are so simple, and have been in continuous production for so long (probably the longest in Nikon history, next to the F3) that any repair shop worth its salt will be able to repair it, and for much less $$$ than Nikon USA. Try somebody local.

 

<p>If you happen to be in the L.A. area I'd be happy to lend you one of my FM2Ns to try out (do not email me, contact me through this forum), and compare with the FM3A. Or Ritz Camera at Santa Anita Fashion Park in Arcadia has one on the shelf, right beside their FM3A, you can go check it out.

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OK, after reading your earlier post I realize you're not in the US let alone L.A., and after re-reading my first post I also realize I've gone too far in one direction. The FM2N does have its problems as well, compared to the FM3A. I find the FM2N's K2 focusing screen (factory supplied microprism/split) to be grainy and dark. I prefer the FM3A's K3 screen, which I bought separately and installed into all my FM2Ns. The FM2N also requires that you flick a lever before you can pull up on the crank to release the back, a little hoopjumping that I find unnecessary, but I got used to it. Also, the film indicator window of the FM3A would be nice to have, but I rationalize by saying, well, just another place for a light leak.

 

<p>There is also some difference of opinion in terms of their meter indicators (f/1.4 problem of the FM3A notwithstanding). Some say the match-needle system of the FM3A is more "accurate" than the FM2N. This is simply not true. Both meters are extremely accurate, and neither is any more accurate than the other. What the FM3A's meter is, is more INFORMATIVE. Instead of + o - of the FM2N, with + o and o - indicating 1/5 to 1 stop over or under, respectively, the FM3A shows a continuous range of exposure values so you know with fair precision how far over or under you are. However, the FM3A's meter indicator area is not illuminated or backlit, and I had trouble seeing it if it was superimposed over a dark part of the scene, usually indoors or in the evening. No such problem with the FM2N's red + o - LEDs.

 

<p>In the final analysis, I really need to get a life, and have rambled on far too long. But that's my opinion and you asked for it! As you no doubt already know, both cameras are fine machines and are only limited by the person using it. It's a matter of what little thorns in your side that you're willing to live with.

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You've obviously scoped out the differences(both obvious and subtle)between the two. Ergonomically, there's not much difference, which I assume was a key objective in the FM3A design. Though it is nice for shooting in near pitch-darkness, the FM2(N)'s winking LED meter display never gave quite the subjective sense of accuracy as did the FE-FE2(now FM3A)match needle scheme.With respect, I can't sort out what Al's viewfinder beef is all about. The newer FM3A does appear to have a slightly brighter finder, thanks to a new screen design. But then ditching the crappy K screen for a matte or grid replacement makes a huge difference in any FM-FE body. If you're flush, I'd get the FM3A(black, of course). Just don't expect anything in the way of a price break from any TO retailers.
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here's another idea:

 

if you go for the used route. for a price of the new fm3a (used one

are rare at this point i think), you can get two fm2. even better,

you can get a fm2 and a fe2. this will enable you to go completely

manuel if desired or work a little faster with the fe2(ae) and easier

flash work. and you can have a led and needle meter.

 

good luck:)

 

----bill

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I've been enjoying my FM3a. I had an old FM for years so I was familiar with the body layout. The FM3a is everything the FM2n is, and more. I think it's a no-brainer.

<p>

As to Al's problem with 1.4 lenses, I have a 50/1.4 and have not encountered what he describes.

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I�ve used an FM3A for about a year, now, and still use an FE2, as well. I�ve not used any FMs. What I can tell you is that I haven�t noticed the problem with 1.4 lenses, either, but maybe I�ve not been paying close enough attention. I tend to use XP2 a lot of the time, which is very forgiving of minor exposure errors. Thanks for the heads-up on that, Al, I�ll check mine out. I�m estimating I�ve put about 150 rolls through the FM3A. Still on the first battery and no mechanical or other defects.

 

I used to have an OM2000, which had an LED type of meter display, also. I never really got along with it. Much prefer the needle type � even if the perception of accuracy is subjective and it is a little trickier in dim light.. I simply find that I make fewer error, turning the aperture or meter controls the wrong way, with a needle, when I�m in a hurry.

 

On other FM3A features:

 

I thought I�d use the exposure lock feature more than I do. It was a selling point when I first got the camera, but in practice I find I use the camera in manual mode most of the time and judge exposure adjustments more by eye and experience. Maybe if it was built into the shutter release I�d use it more.

 

The film window is a wonderful feature and I wish the FE2 had one. Anyone know of any replacement/aftermarket backs with a window?

 

The FM3A viewfinder is definitely brighter (maybe about a stop?) than the FE2, so I assume that the difference is about the same compoared to the FM2. I replaced the screen with a plain matt one � much nicer to focus with fast, wide-angle lenses without the distracting prism-split-image-thingumy. I agree that the viewfinder is a little flarey (is that a word? �it is now). Only really noticable if there�s a lot of contrast � like shooting partially out of a window in a dim daylit room, for example. I don�t find it distracting though � only notice it if I consciously look for it. Maybe it�s just a trade-off for Nikon engineers trying to make the finder brighter?

 

The only thing that bugs me about most Nikon manual camera bodies is the need to turn the darn things on by pulling out the wind-lever. I�m always bumping my forehead on it when using them in �vertical� format. Maybe my forehead just doesn�t slope enough. I much prefered Olympuses in this regard � about all I prefered them for. The F3 was the exception amongst Nikons for that, but despite everyone raving about its finder, I thought its LCD display was dreadful. Anyhow, avoiding this quirk is good enough reason to pop on the MD-12 winder � with which the FM3A seems to cooperate very happily.

 

Anyway, I suspect the FM2 and the FM3A diffences come down to whether you need AE and whether you prefer needles to blinky LEDs. Only you can answer that.

 

My, that all turned into a steam of consciousness. I�ll stop now�

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<I>I know the FM2's are a great buy right now because of the intro of the FM3A's, i also know that the

FM3A is a creation that puts all the best from the FE and the FM2 into one PLUS some additional

goodies. With that said one would assume that I should buy the FM3A right?</I><P>

 

One would assume no such thing. Hi, Laura. I think you've done well to narrow your choices to these two bodies, especially given the broad range of Nikon options you have - and the wide-ranging, disparate - but, in general, great - advice you've been given in another thread.<P>

 

There is no question that, if I were able to combine the best features of my FM2 into my FE2, I'd be a very happy man indeed - and the proud owner of a new FM3A! I can tell you that match-needle metering isn't <I>of itself</I> more accurate - certainly not. But it does greatly facilitate your own enhanced accuracy; here's how that works:<P>

 

With my FE2, I put the camera to my eye, and right away I see how much over or under exposed I am. (I see, as well, the shutter speed I have set and the aperture I'm on.) With my FM2, the viewfinder indicates shutter speed and aperture; and, via LEDs, whether I'm over or under - but I have no idea by how much - one stop over? or five? In order to find out, I have to look (in the viewfinder) at both shutter speed and aperture, factor in ambient conditions and film speed, and, using the "Sunny 16" rule, determine the appropriate exposure, then set it using the shutter speed or aperture controls. Or, more likely, I simply crank on the shutter speed dial (or, if depth of field has yet to be determined, on the aperture ring) until the LEDs indicate "O", then, once I know where "O" is, go up or down from there (remembering, ideally, to count off stops or half stops, so that I don't forget where zero is). Simple, huh? Of course, if you're on your toes, you already have exposure set, approximately anyway, before you ever see anything you want to shoot. So, as you can see, metering via LED indicator is not so intuitive, and if you're in a hurry much easier to be inaccurate with.<P>

 

On the other hand, there is price to consider. For the cost of an FM3A, you could probably buy two mint FM2s and have money left over for a little film. And despite what I say above, you wouldn't regret that decision - it just takes some getting used to, and maybe a bit more time during actual use. I do love my FM2.

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Laura,

 

A lot of good responses above. I own an FM2n and a FE2 and enjoy using both. If I am in careful considered mode I tend to use the FM2n. When shooting fast moving objects such as my children the FE2 is ideal. I prefer the FE2 match needle metering to the under/correct/over indicators of the FM2n. The FM3A strikes me as more like a FE2 in handling because of the metering tho I have never tried one. They are both great cameras and you will not go far wrong with either.

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<i>As to Al's problem with 1.4 lenses, I have a 50/1.4 and have not encountered what he describes.</i>

 

<p>I admit it could possibly be a batch problem - I should have made a note of serial numbers. But for me the problem was very obvious. It was on every FM3A that passed my hands - the two chrome ones I bought off eBay, the two new black USA ones from B&H, as well as the chrome one off the shelf at Ritz. All had fresh batteries installed. The only other possibility I can think of is that all my f/1.4 lenses are defective, as well as the 50/1.4D at Ritz.

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The "f1.4 problem" exists on <em>all</em> AI cameras, and it isn't

really a problem. I first heard about it on the

<a href="http://www.yahoo.groups/NikonMF/">NikonMF</a>

mailing list over on Yahoo, back in October of 2000 (well

before the introduction of the FM3a, BTW). If you're interested,

and can wade through it, look at the archives starting on Oct 3,

2000, for a thread with subject line

<cite>Re: Nikon DP-11 & DP-12 (F2A & F2AS) Maximum Aper</cite>.

Warning: the thread is long, somewhat repetitive, and degrades

into a bit of a shouting match.

<p>

Lars Hansen has a description of the phenomenon at

<a href="http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/lhhansen/photo/mcr.htm">

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/lhhansen/photo/mcr.htm</a>,

where he describes it as the 4 2/3 vs 5 stop offset. Fast

lenses with a five stop offset won't start moving the AI coupling

tab until they're stopped down by 1/3 stop.

<p>

Anyway, this issue exists on my FM2n as well, and my FM, and my

F3. I'm not sure of the exact reason that Nikon designed things

this way, but I suspect it has to do with the angle of acceptance

of the metering cells - they probably don't catch quite all the light

from very fast lenses. Regardless of why it works this way,

Nikon's AI system gives good metering results for my purposes,

both on slow lenses and on f1.4 lenses.

<p>

I suspect the reason the problem is more noticable on the FM3a

than the FM2n is because the analog meter display makes it

easier to see. An FE, FE2, or EL2 would be similar, I expect.

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It's possible to detect on the FM2n, if you know what to look for,

though it is subtle. Put a 50mm f1.4 on the camera, keep

it wide open, aim at an evenly lit subject, and adjust the

shutter speed and film speed so that only the center diode

is lit up, indicating proper exposure. Then slow down the

shutter exactly one stop, and you'll find you need to stop the lens

down about one and a third stops to get the center diode lit

up again. Repeat the experiment with an f2.8 lens, and you'll

see that you only need to stop it down one full stop to get

the center diode lit up.

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Low and behold...there's actually a used FM3A for sale in the photo.net classifieds.

 

Laura: I see from your email that you are a fellow Canadian. Do you plan on buying the camera in Canada or from the USA? Camera bodies are exempt from duties (NAFTA) so you'll only pay GST if you buy from the USA. You'll save upwards of 20%, although you might have more headaches if you need warranty service.

 

If you live in the Vancouver area, contact me off list. I know all of the retailers and their quirks. (and which ones will haggle on the price!)

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