FINALLY!! A digital F100! The D200 is here!

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by dan_daly|1, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. I swear, I almost shed a tear when I finally got to read the
    dpreview specs on the D200. You'll pry my F100 from my cold dead
    hands, but I have wanted to go digital SLR for so long, and Nikon
    never made the camera I was clamouring for. The D100 wasn't fast
    enough (for sports shots), tough enough, or have the resolution (for
    wedding shots) I wanted. The D2H didn't have the resolution, the
    D70's veiwfinder was unbearable, (of course, none metered with my
    old AIS glass) and I'd have had to sell a kindey to get a D2X.

    After lamenting the D70, and seriously contemplating a switch
    to Canon and it's 20D after decades with Nikon, I can finally have
    the camera I've wanted since the dawn of the digital SLR. I AM
    getting one, and probably with the 18-200 VR lens. Thank you Nikon!
    It only took you 3 years to make the camera I've wanted. Today is a
    happy day, I'm going to put my name of a list as soon as I can.
    (Actually the local camera shop doesn't even have it in the
    computer, so I have to wait to put my name on the wait list.)

    Questions:

    Will it have a black and white mode, similar to the 20D? I couldn't
    figure it out bt reading the Nikon press release or the dpreview
    article.

    What Compact flash cards are "the standard" for this type of camera?
    I currently only have SD cards. Dpreview mentions Sandisk Extreme
    III 1 GB, good choice?

    Where's the best place to get an SB-800?

    Dan
     
  2. Wow - Dan - your enthusiasm is quite heartening. However, it's one thing to be so excited (many are), but how an you possibly be so convinced about a camera you've never held before?

    Good luck - hope the D200 meets your real-world expectations!

    As for the SB-800, try the following NYC dealers:

    Adorama; B&H Photo Video; 17th Street Photo
     
  3. Excited Dan? It is nice to see this camera finally unveiled.
    Although it will be awhile before it's available for purchase.

    Black and White Mode: I doubt very seriously if it will have that
    feature. The most efficient way to do that is through post
    processing.

    Compact Flash: I doubt if there are any "recommended" cards
    out there yet for the D200. SanDisk Extreme are very good cards
    and should work very well with this and other cameras. I have
    used the Extreme cards without failure on all my digital CF
    cameras.

    SB-800: I bought through Adorama and B&H for my speedlights.
    Those are my sources for Nikon peripherals, and have been very
    happy with the transactions.
     
  4. Truth is that I have to put a lot of will-power not to go and get one and you do not help Dan :)
     
  5. According to DPReview it does have a B&W mode. That said, it's pretty basic (Lacking the selectable filters of the 20d and Rebel XT) and I recomend converting in Post.

    For CF cards, look at the SanDisk Ultra II or Extreme III's. At least 2 1GB cards if you plan on shooting seriously with it (And for Weddings, add a portable backup device like Epson's P-2000 so you can empty 1 card while shooting with the other).

    For an SB-800, look at B&H, Adorama or Henry's.
     
  6. Think Nikon announced it because it was leaked by accidental release onto web page anyways...

    1. Which one is better?
    Nikon D200 vs. Canon 5D

    2. Has anyone tried to put those CF hard drives instead of those Sandisk Extreme CF cards? Which one is faster, and which one use more battery power?

    3. I see the D200 still has the 1.5 lens factor... was hoping they would make it 1.0 lens factor instead...
     
  7. Like everyone else I've been excited about the D200, and I've been thinking that I'd get
    one in the spring. But I've been out & about taking a few shots with my D70 over the last
    week and I'm wondering if I actually need to replace it. I'm still delighted with it.

    So what are the reasons to upgrade? Well, first there's the resolution. OK, 10Mp is more
    than 6Mp, but in practice I'd need to print at A3 to see much advantage. I can print on A4,
    with a border, at 270 DPI with files from the D70, and to be honest that might be enough.
    I was very interested to read comments by various people here (I think) that they
    *downsize* files from their D2X cameras before printing. That seems to suggest that
    12Mp is too much!

    Viewfinder: well I'm one of those people who simply uses AF and who is therefore perfectly
    content with the D70 VF as it is. If the D200 VF is better then fine, but for me that's not a
    compelling reason tochange.

    Weather-proofing: yes, this would be good.

    Uses AI-S lenses: I don't have any of these, I'm a new Nikon user with the D70 so while I
    can see the advantage to long-standing Nikonites, again it's not something of great value
    to me.

    Anything else? - hmm, I can't see anything...

    So on reflection I'll carry on getting the best I can out of the D70 for a while. I think that
    for me the importance of the D200 is that it re-affirms Nikon's committment to the mid-
    sized sensor, and it tells me that it's safe to buy DX lenses etc because there will be
    cameras around for a number of years on which I can use them.
     
  8. The Ai-S metering advantage is not just for oldies. Check prices of 2nd hand special optics, and you'll see what the fuss is all about!

    28/2, 35/1.4,105/2.5,, a 50/1.8 or 1.4 that actually can be manually focused smoothly and doesn't wobble in the viewfinder when you touch it, 400/3.5, etc. all of these goodies can be had for peanuts.
     
  9. You can see advantages in detail smaller prints too, but you may need to use a tripod or high shutter speeds, and fine optics.
     
  10. Why the hell would you want a B/W mode?

    Any post processing software can desatuate a image to give you B/W. If you use post processing, you will still have the original raw image, with all the data, remaining. If you use in-camera B/W processing, you loose original color data that can never be recovered.

    Touting B/W as a "feature" in DSLR is like touting the ability to no actually move under its own power as a "feature" of a car.
     
  11. Has anyone heard anything concrete about the Multi-cam 1000? I read rumors that it's a modified 2000, but I don't understand the naming paradigm if that's the case. I have bodies with a Multi-cam 900 and 1300, and I don't think I could go back to the 900 full time...I know I'm spoiled. I read the entire dpreview for the d200, but I didn't see any mention of the AF speed/accuracy...maybe I skimmed too fast in my zeal. Anybody? Thanks.
     
  12. I have a stupid question. Why do Nikon's prosumer to pro cameras flash sync a full stop slower than their consumer grade models. I was hoping for the capability to sync at a speedy 1/500th.

    Anyone out there know why?
     
  13. > Why the hell would you want a B/W mode?

    Now, now, Chuck. Let's keep the obsceneties to a mininum here.

    The main reason for people to want b/w in the camera is that they come from the film world and thus expect to be limited by the camera. Also, being ex-film people they aren't familiar with computers and therefore fear having to sit in front of one to convert the shots to b/w.

    You've got your explanation, so leave them alone.
     
  14. The Marketing Brochure on the D200 lists the following:

    The following cards have been tested and approved for use in the D200:
    ? SanDisk Corporation
    SDCFB 128MB, 256MB, 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB
    SDCFB (Type II) 300MB
    SDCF2B (Type II) 256MB
    SDCFH (Ultra II) 256MB, 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB
    SDCFX (Extreme III) 1GB, 2GB, 4GB
    ? Microdrive?
    1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 6GB
    ? Lexar Media Corporation
    Entry-level CompactFlash cards 128MB, 256MB, 512MB
    High speed 40נwith Write Acceleration (WA) 256MB, 512MB, 1GB
    Professional 40נwith WA 8GB
    Professional 80נwith WA 512MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB
    Professional 80נwith WA and LockTight technology 512MB, 2GB
    Operation is not guaranteed with other makes of card. For more details on the above cards, please contact the manufacturer.
     
  15. I want the B&W mode so that I never see the picture in color before I load it into Photoshop
    for final processing. I find that this makes a big difference for me when evauating pictures
    that I want to print monochrome.

    Having the preview be B&W is a great way to have quick proofs... and then you can always
    process the RAW file any way you want.
     
  16. Not! A digital F100 will have a full-size sensor, high eyepoint viewfinder without a built-in flash, and no extra (needless in my opinion) bulk of the D2X/D2H. I don't want to carry a huge camera around when I shoot and have no need to. I'm still waiting for the digital F100. Should have at least 18mp, full-size sensor, etc. Maybe in two or three years. I'm content to wait it out.

    Cheers,

    Dave
     
  17. > I have a stupid question. Why do Nikon's prosumer to pro cameras flash > sync a full stop slower than their consumer grade models. I was hoping > for the capability to sync at a speedy 1/500th.

    > Anyone out there know why?

    Because the consumer models use a hybrid or electronic shutter, made possible by the use of a CCD sensor. i read somewhere that the nature of CMOS makes it very difficult to implement an electronic shutter, but the trend in digital imaging sensors is towards CMOS... which means the reliance on traditional mechanical shutters, and the 1/250s limitation.
     
  18. I'm so proud of Nikon, it really looks like they were listening to what their customers wanted in a D200. Yes, I know not everyone got what they wanted, but ISO 100, the ability to use AIS lenses, a metal body with weather seals, GPS, larger screen, improved viewfinder, and 10+ megapixels at less than $2k US is just super!
     
  19. Yes, that's what many of us were waiting for. I knew it was coming and bought a used D70
    while waiting and to learn the digital process. The given specs make it a suitable F100
    replacement. I like the ISO 100 and hope it has long exposure options. And the price is darn
    right aggressive.
     
  20. Dave,

    Those sure are lofty expectations for a digital F100. especially considering that 35mm print film is only about equivalent to a 6MP sensor, and slide film maybe 12MP. regardless of what people say about scanning at 14MP/4000dpi, it's all grain at that resolution.

    the F100 is viewed in relation to the F5. it's basically your 80/20 solution. and when viewed in that regard, the D200 is to the D2X, what the F100 is to the F5. how can you expect the D200 to be FF when the D2X isn't even FF? so yes, the D200 IS the digital F100 that many have been waiting for; there really is no argument in that regard.

    you're basically asking Nikon to deliver a digital medium format cam in a 35mm body.


    Regards,

    Vinh
     
  21. The Flash Sync Speed of 1/250 max is for non-Nikon flashes only. You can sync up to 1/8000 with a SB-800.
     
  22. Well, if it is possible then it is understandable that people want it. After all medium format systems are large and don't have VR, have poor autofocus, teles are heavy and slow etc. etc. there is so much to be gained by using larger and higher-res sensors on our 35 mm lenses.

    But the time isn't right for Nikon to bring it out yet. I don't mind - I think DX is great apart from the viewfinder.
     
  23. I think Jim had reversed the meaning of it:

    "The Flash Sync Speed of 1/250 max is for non-Nikon flashes only. You can sync up to 1/8000 with a SB-800."

    If there is a CCD electronic shutter in D200, by analogy with D70/D50, so you can sync up to 1/250 on D200 (was 1/500 on D70 ) with Nikon SB-800, and up to 1/8000 with non-Nikon flashes.

    Is that what you wanted to say Jim?

    The D70 CCD electronic shutter sync feature was discovered down to 1/8000 with non-Nikon flashes, and was never advertised by Nikon.

    Will that be the same case for D200? - we will see shortly.
     
  24. If there is a FP mode on D200, so you can sync down to 1/8000 with FP compatible flash like SB-800. However, the SP mode drastically reduces flash max range, and is mostly used for close object pictures like portraits.

    I am hoping for D200 to have ability to sync at full (Non-Nikon flash) flash power single shot, with down to 1/8000 sync, like it is possible with D70.
     
  25. The faster synch speed would be nice but many studio strobes have somewhat of a delay in firing which negates a fast shutter.

    Jim
     
  26. Apparently there is no FP flash mode on the D200 camera.
     
  27. The sync speed of 1/250 at the 100 iso of the d200 is the same thing as the 1/500 sync speed at the 200 iso of the d70. When the d70 will read for exposure 1/500 at 200 iso the equivalent on the d200 would be 1/250 at 100 iso.
     
  28. Wang:

    1. Depends on what you want. The D200 is a lot more camera for shooting action, the 5D should have better dynamic range (due to the larger sensor sites) the D200 is more capable for flash work (Faster sync, better designed flash system). A lot of it comes down to the two cameras filling the same gap. Remember that Canon's pro lenses are all intended for Full Frame, while Nikon makes DX format Pro lenses.

    2. Microdrives are cheap for large sizes. But it's been a couple of years since they were faster. Right now a Sandisk Extreme III or Ultra II is essentially the fastest option, and those are flash memory.

    3. With available ultra-wide lenses for DX format cameras, the format wars are essentially nothing but hype, with one specific exception, dynamic range. Barring odd solutions (SuperCCD) a larger sensor site allows inherently more dynamic range and a larger sensor allows larger sensor sites for a given resolution. Nikon's decided to fully support DX, Canon can't decide what it's doing. And Canon now has fairly major compatibility issues in its lens line (Notably the 17-85 IS USM and 10-22, neither of which are cheap lenses). Canon has also had problems with optical performance of even L series lenses on its full-frame bodies. Digital is a lot harder on lenses, and a smaller format sensor is far less sensitive to poor corner performance than a full-frame sensor, making mid-range lenses a whole lot more viable on a high-resolution Nikon body than a high-resolution Canon body (Apart from whatever the 20d successor is, which is likely to remain a 1.6x crop body). Not to mention the fact that it allows Nikon to deliver a mostly similar body for half the money.

    As to the Multi-CAM1000, well it is pretty much a 2000 with a modified layout and 7 area 'wide-area' AF, a rather good idea that comes from the F90. Not sure how many cross sensors there are in the 1000, but Id bet it's either 5 or 7 rather than 9.
     
  29. "As to the Multi-CAM1000, well it is pretty much a 2000 with a modified layout and 7 area 'wide-area' AF, a rather good idea that comes from the F90. Not sure how many cross sensors there are in the 1000, but Id bet it's either 5 or 7 rather than 9."

    I heard the Multi-CAM1000 module is closer to the D50/D70/D70s/D100's Multi-CAM900 than the 2000 from the Pro series. I think there is only ONE cross sensor out of the 11. If it were more I'd buy the D200 in a heartbeat, but looks like I'll wait and see if its AF performance is up to snuff. Having an AF assist illuminator worries me.
     
  30. I have seen claims it can meter with AI-S lens - can it aslo meter with plain AI lens? Just in case anybody happens to know...
     
  31. Hey, Pete, wouldn't you see the scene in color in the viewfinder before you make the
    picture?

    B&W in camera is a total waste, especially because converting to B&W with Photoshop gives
    you an infinitely variable set of color filters freeing you forever from the hassle of filtering.
     
  32. "The sync speed of 1/250 at the 100 iso of the d200 is the same thing as the 1/500 sync speed at the 200 iso of the d70."

    wrong !

    Vasili, perhaps you do not shoot fast moving objects, like sports?
    Do you care about depth of field with flash fill in?
    Do you want greater range of freedom to balance ambient and flash lights contributions?
     
  33. Hi Andrew,

    B&W in a digital camera can be actually better than color ----the color image in a digital sensor multiplexes 3 adjacent pixels (at least) to produce 1 color pixel. Now if that color filter was not there, then the digital chip would be capable of almost twice as much linear resolution. But I am sure D200 can not turn off the color filter and hence is not capable of this trick. Nevertheless it is possible that some smart image processing in-camera can get us high res B&W image. Maybe even clever processing of the RAW file can get us something.
     
  34. Color pixels still record brightness, which is all that's important for a B&W image.
    Additionally, they free one from using color filters.
     
  35. The D200 can work with AI lenses as well as AIS. The reason it can work with AI lenses even without the linear aperture stopdown is because the exposure modes are limited to A and M. Coupled with the AI ring, the camera only needs to fully stop down the lens all the way and the aperture will close down to the amount value because of the preset value set on the aperture ring. This is also why you have to use the aperture ring for AI and AIS lenses instead of the sub-command dial.
     
  36. Fill in flash I use, that is maybe my only use of flash. The depth of field will not have a difference between d70 and d200, eg. in d70 will be 1/500, f2.8, iso 200, and in d200 will be 1/250, f2.8, iso 100. If I understand correctly what you mean. Then, for the things I shoot 1/250 is enough to freeze the action. Although you are right that for sports it makes a difference.
     
  37. Looks like a sweet machine. ISO indicator in the viewfinder, more switches instead of menus, shots since last battery charge, more detailed battery level indicator, vertical grip and you can put TWO EN-EL3e's, rubber gaskets all around, it looks like electronic remote shutter release, sometimes you just need that dang pop-up flash, big viewfinder, wish for more cross sensors but then just buy the D2h or D2x, dial for single/continuous mode instead of a stupid menu, switch for focus area mode, C/S/M instead of M/S, RGB view, ISO 3200....dang, everything I've wanted in an upgrade to my D70 but without the price of the D2x. I prefer the multi-selector over the big dial like the 5D. Just a preference. And the fact you can buy 2 D200's over 1 5D or 1 D2x or! 3/4 D200's over nonac's $8k bohemoth. Will wait until the bugs work out and then...
     
  38. exactly what Aaron said... But I don't think I can wait until the bugs come out. I'll get some DDT!
     

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