Film Stuck in Cannon AE-1 Program

Hi y'all! I just went to unload some film from my Cannon AE-1 Program which I've shoot a couple of rolls through before but not many and I thought it fealt a little funny rewinding but then again I'm not super used to it so I figured it was probably fine. I opened the door to take out the film and it was not rewound at all. The film door will not close all the way and the rewind button is still depressed. I have it wrapped in a thick jacket in a dark closet until I can get it to a place with a dark room. I'm assuming the film is probably toast but I'm wondering is if the camera might be broken as well. Any thoughts?

Could it be that you hadn't depressed the rewind button sufficiently at the start of rewinding and the "funny rewinding" feeling was the film tearing away from the spool inside the cassette? When you opened the back the film may have bunched up around the winding spool, preventing the door from closing. I don't like your chances of salvaging the film so it might just be better to see if this is the situation.

Thanks for the reply. The film didn't looked torn as far as I could tell but I didn't keep it open that long to check. The closing problem seems like it's on the left side, where the rewind knob is, as of something is preventing it from going down so it may be bunched up like you said?

My main problem is that because the film is still attached to the spoll on the right I'm not sure how I get that off, do I just remove the can and gently pull the film until it reminds to prevent damaging the camera or do I need to cut it or something?

With the rewind button depressed the wind-on spool should freewheel, enabling the film to be pulled off and rewound into the cassette, if this is still OK. Obviously, this has to be done in the dark if you want to preserve the film. Otherwise, just open the back and go for it.

The rewind button releases the sprocket drive, not the take up spool. Open the back and you can pull the film off of the take up no matter the position of the rewind button

 

And yes, your film is surely ruined.

Edited April 3, 2018 by chuck909

The rewind button releases the sprocket drive, not the take up spool

 

Duh... Of course! I really should think before I type...

Thanks for all the replies. I got home and did some investigating in a dark room with thick blanket over me and the camera (what can I say I'm an opitmist) and it seems that the film tore which is why it didn't rewind. I couldn't feel anything blocking the door so I'm really not sure why it's not shuting, it seems to be broken but I don't know how the film tearing would have cause that.

If you believe in chances to salvage your taken images, why isn't the film out of the camera yet so it can be inspected by light? - I 'm not familiar with the AE 1 series (burned one roll in total in one) but sometimes camera backs or hooks meant to hold them shut can be a little bent so they don't close that easily.

Get the camera empty and figure out a mechanical reason why it won't shut.

Once you figured out how to close it and feel sufficiently confident, patiently load a next roll. When it is finished rewind carefully. Some cameras demand the rewind button pressed all the time, when the shutter is not fully cocked or similar odd things. In doubt when you cant wind on, rewind a bit, cock the shutter fully press the rewind button again and continue cranking.

In the long run a changing bag will be nice to have. Not just to deal with rewinding and loading errors inside, also to transfer your film into a processing tank.

As for the torn film, I think the lesson here is not to force the film advance when you get to the end of the roll. When I worked in a camera store it was moderately common for someone to bring in a camera with torn film. Often the guy thought he had a 36 exp roll, but it was really 20 so he tried to keep going. He'd open the back eventually and then, seeing the film, he'd close it real quick. He'd usually tell me that it wasn't open for very long.

 

Just a guess, but it might not close because of some chips of film.

 

I'll add in that most film transport problems can be avoided by paying attention to the rewind crank/knob as you advance the film. I think that after 50 years of shooting 35mm that I have the hang of loading a camera. But I ALWAYS check to see that the rewind moves at the same time as I advance the film. And at the slightest resistance at the end, I stop. Never force anything.

When I got rid of my darkroom stuff over the years, one thing that I kept was my "changing bag". It has come in handy a couple of times.

All of this reminds me of one particular customer encounter. The customer had the same problem as the OP, but handled it a bit differently. After opening the back and seeing that the film had been torn off of the cartridge spool, he pulled out the film, cut it into six inch lengths, put them all in a white envelope and brought them in for processing.

 

I was a bit surprised, and tried very hard to be kind. I did ask him why he cut the film and he replied that he figured it would be easier to develop that way as that's the way he always got his film back.

 

TRUE STORY (Got lots more like that)

Unless the film became really loose and spread apart, the anti-halation backing on the film should have prevented light from passing through the layers of film and ruining all of the exposures. The cassette may have turned so the film gate of the cassette is facing up preventing the back from closing.

 

(And check the spelling of "Canon".)

Edited April 3, 2018 by James G. Dainis

So my light tight wrapping job didn't seems to hold over the night (I was going to take it somewhere with a dark room today) so I just pulled it out and tossed it. The back closed as soon as it was out so I assume there must have been some film in there after all. Thanks again!

Better results next time.

Don't force that winding lever.

Watch the rewinder as you advance each frame, it should turn each time the frame advance lever is operated.

Rewind carefully monitoring the rewind release button, making sure, if film gets tight, that it is still pushed in.

Listen for the film to release from the winding side of the camera while you rewind before opening the back.

Unless the film became really loose and spread apart, the anti-halation backing on the film should have prevented light from passing through the layers of film and ruining all of the exposures. The cassette may have turned so the film gate of the cassette is facing up preventing the back from closing.

 

(And check the spelling of "Canon".)

 

This sounds like the most likely scenario and I also agree that a tightly wound spool of film will have more salvageable exposures on it than ruined ones.. A cassette that has had the film torn out of it will easily rotate in the direction of the rewinding motion and jam the door. And after working 26 years for Canon (on the Office Products side of the company) I have seen more than my share of people confusing the name with the towel company.

Unless the film became really loose and spread apart, the anti-halation backing on the film should have prevented light from passing through the layers of film and ruining all of the exposures.

 

In my early days of photography, I recall once being in a hurry and opening the back of my A-1 without rewinding. I was in the bright, full sun and hinged the back far enough open to see the cassette before snapping it shut.

 

I figured the whole roll was toast, but had it developed anyway. The last few frames were, of course, completely gone but I was surprised at how much of the roll was fine. I think the last four were dead, and the next 3-4 past there had increasingly smaller streaks across the frame.

 

One thing worth mentioning is that the A-series and a lot of other Canons wind emulsion side in. The only exceptions I can think of are the F-1, F-1N, and EF. There is an argument that winding emulsion out gives better film flatness and that was why the "professional" F-1 series did it(and also probably why nearly all manual advance Nikons do it), but emulsion in does afford a bit more protection if the back is opened momentarily. I doubt anything would protect it if opened all the way and held there for a while.

 

I think it's also interesting to mention that the later Canon Rebel along with some very late low-end Nikons would spool the entire roll out onto the takeup spool when loaded, and the wind back into the cartridge as each photo is taken. It would drive me crazy for cataloging purposes(which is why I don't use those cameras!) but you have to admit it's a novel idea for a consumer oriented camera. As soon as the film is exposed, it's "safe" in the cartridge so if the back is opened accidentally the only ruined film is the unexposed portion.

At one time in the early days of Photo.net, the word "cannon" would get the poster a pop up stating, "Cannon makes towels, Canon makes cameras. Please correct your spelling." I had the devil's own time trying to discuss a photo taken of a cannon at an embrasure. I finally had to substitute the words "old artillery weapon" to get anywhere.

At one time in the early days of Photo.net, the word "cannon" would get the poster a pop up stating, "Cannon makes towels, Canon makes cameras. Please correct your spelling." I had the devil's own time trying to discuss a photo taken of a cannon at an embrasure. I finally had to substitute the words "old artillery weapon" to get anywhere.

 

I can remember setting a few of those "Bozo" filters(I think that's what they were called) in my days as a moderator.

 

In any case, I got tired of cleaning up after spammers and put "Viagra" and "Cialis" on the forums I moderated and the message said "Go away spammer" or something like that.

 

Someone complained one day that they were working for a specialist and kept getting it because "specialist" contains "cialis." I had a good laugh over that, apologized, and then learned how to tag the filters so that it wouldn't kick a post if the bozo filtered word was in the middle of a longer word.

A cassette that has had the film torn out of it will easily rotate in the direction of the rewinding motion and jam the door" Andy F.

On more than one occasion folks have brought in a 'jammed-up' camera with similar symptoms experienced by this OP.

 

Upon inspection, what actually occurred inside the film chamber was that the film cassette was not feeding out in the direction towards the take-up spool. The film door was instead closed as the film cassette feed was pointed up. This of course allows for any film coming out of the cassette to be 'PINCHED' by the film door cassette stabilizer (A similar symptom to a rewind shaft being too stiff).

 

Many issues can arise from this serious film loading error:

Hard advance and/or binding - Hard rewinding - Torn sprocket holes - Abrasions on film - Hard to open/jammed door.

Keep in mind that the rewind knob can still fool you (it will still turn as you advance). The difference is that the feel of the other operations will be LABORED. So the warning given by others is more important than any, "Don't force anything" when using your camera/lenses...

Many years ago, my father went to Russia, and brought me back a roll of Russian 35mm film. It comes on a spool, and wrapped in foil, but no cassette.

 

I believe it is the emulsion itself, in addition to the antihalation layer, that most keeps light from going deeper.

 

(Except for the rem-jet backing on Kodachrome and movie films. It seems that 35mm movie cameras load with the film on a large reel, but otherwise unprotected. Rem-jet is much of the protection for the rest of the roll.)

 

I have never known commercial cassettes to tear the tape holding the film in. There are stories of the Nikon F motor drive breaking the spool and dragging spool parts through the back of the camera. (Not good for the camera.) I only remember one home spooled roll, with 1/4 inch masking tape to hold the film on, tearing the tape.

I have never known commercial cassettes to tear the tape holding the film in.

 

I tore a roll of Rollei IR film in an F3.

 

At the time, I had little experience with the F3. That film is thin, and the film advance on the F3 is normally so smooth and effortless that you can't tell from it if there's film loaded or not. I realized it as soon as it tore, but it didn't feel abnormal before tearing. I've probably shot thousands of rolls in manual advance cameras, so it was somewhat embarrassing.

 

I also bought a Canon EF that had a torn roll of drug store C41 in it. I fired it several times in the shore to check it out, and they'd fired it several times before I looked at it. I don't think they'd opened the back, though, and when I did I spotted it immediately. The roll wasn't taped to the spool, but rather used a "tongue" to hold, as is the case with a lot of film these days.

I have seen quite a few commercial roll where the film was torn off of the spool. Hard to imagine how - on most cameras - someone would not feel that something is wrong. Most of the chews I saw were the result of rewinding without releasing the sprocket drive. Hard to believe that, too, but sure saw it often enough.

Now and again the old Pentax release button will pop our and need to be pressed back in.

I can see where that might lead to a tear.......or tear.