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(Film) How to get great exposure without aperture needle?


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I recently bought a Canon AT-1. It's in great shape except that the aperture needle in the match needle system has been dislodged at some point and is floating around inside the viewfinder. The light meter needle still works though. I was wondering what the best way to get great exposure is without the aperture needle. Do I just aim to have the light meter in the middle somewhere? Do I use the stop down button? I can't afford to get a separate light meter at the moment. Any suggestions would be great.
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I'd encourage you to learn about the "sunny 16" rule, an easily memorized way to determine proper exposure in most daylight circumstances. Here's a link to a free pocket calculator which you can use in the meantime....extremely versatile and accurate: http://www.cppdh.org/download/jiffy-calculator-for-night-light-exposures.pdf It covers many typical daylight scenes, and is especially useful in low lightingand night situations where meters usually fall short. I've used one of these for over 25 years and keep one in my car's glove compartment just in case I ever need it.
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It doesn't appear as though the AT-1 has a fixed stop-down metering mark, but apparently uses the "rest" position of the "lollipop."

 

On other Canon match needle bodies, the stop down mark is roughly 1/3 of the way up the scale. Basically, what you do is stop down the lens and then adjust the shutter speed and aperture until you get it in this mark. If you can visualize a position about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the frame and shoot for getting the needle there, it will probably get you close enough with print film. The other alternative would be to get the lollipop to the "rest" position-try tilting the camera back and gently tapping on the front. Then, assuming it stays there, just line the needle up with it as described.

 

With that said, the most likely reason the lollipop is "floating" is because someone took the camera apart and didn't get it back together correctly. I'd be suspect of any meter readings from the camera.

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I recently bought a Canon AT-1. It's in great shape except that the aperture needle in the match needle system has been dislodged at some point and is floating around inside the viewfinder. The light meter needle still works though. I was wondering what the best way to get great exposure is without the aperture needle. Do I just aim to have the light meter in the middle somewhere? Do I use the stop down button? I can't afford to get a separate light meter at the moment. Any suggestions would be great.

 

May be you can't afford a light meter but you can afford another camera?

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I have used the sunny 16 rule more often than not. I have a lot of cameras where the meter systems works and a a lot where the meter system functions but is no longer accurate. At first I would error on the side of underexposure and than learned that it is better to give ample exposure.. Some have told me that you can be off by up to 2 stops and get away with it. The was something I saw online (can not remember where ) that showed the same image over a range of 6 stops and there was not too much of a difference in the mid range. I would SPECULATE that if you are digitalizing you photos you can easily correct for this in the editor program if you are off by 1 stop from the ideal setting.
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I have used the sunny 16 rule more often than not. I have a lot of cameras where the meter systems works and a a lot where the meter system functions but is no longer accurate. At first I would error on the side of underexposure and than learned that it is better to give ample exposure.. Some have told me that you can be off by up to 2 stops and get away with it. The was something I saw online (can not remember where ) that showed the same image over a range of 6 stops and there was not too much of a difference in the mid range. I would SPECULATE that if you are digitalizing you photos you can easily correct for this in the editor program if you are off by 1 stop from the ideal setting.

 

If you talk about slides then your exposure must be to within 1/3 stop or so. Even with digital post processing you lose quality when you expose wrongly. With color negative film you have much more lee way but that would be corrected during the printing phase and you don't need digital post processing for that.

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If you talk about slides then your exposure must be to within 1/3 stop or so. Even with digital post processing you lose quality when you expose wrongly. With color negative film you have much more lee way but that would be corrected during the printing phase and you don't need digital post processing for that.

Well that explains a lot and why I have so much unused slide film. Thanks

 

To add one more thing, I was processing my own So I used the editor but now decided that comparing benefits to downside I am using local lab and you are right. I just do not save enough to justify effort and inconsistent results

Edited by donald_miller|5
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As SCL said, research the "sunny 16 rule."

That is what we used in the film days, when cameras did not have built in meters.

You just have to learn to identify the scene, to match it to the light categories of the 'sunny 16' chart.

Then learn to use equivalent exposure, to adjust the exposure to the shutter speed or aperture you want.

It is not as difficult as it sounds.

That is how I started back in the 1960s. The chart was a piece of paper taped to the back of the camera.

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4CDAB5B9-072C-45D4-9211-AE434DC37BF0.thumb.jpeg.891b7dae9517426a34b3a5447e053dab.jpeg I mention this a camera too much but the Signet has the simplest and easiest system and I bring it with me. Just read the exposure value on the meter and then set the the value on the synchro lens and then you have all the correct settings right in front of you. No batteries needed or anything. Problem is most people never/don’t have one and can not appreciate it. Edited by donald_miller|5
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"That is what we used in the film days, when cameras did not have built in meters."

 

- Crikey Gary! How old are you?

 

They've been fitting meters (uncoupled or otherwise) in cameras for at least the last 70 years. TTL metering is well over 45 years old.

 

There's really no excuse for not using a meter these days. Phone app or cheap used meter from a charity shop - they're all far more accurate than the Sunny 16 guesstimate, or some paper table that takes so long to use the light's changed or the subject is gone by the time you've figured it out!

 

"Do you have a Digital SLR.?

You can use that to practice Sunny-16"

 

- Nice one Denny. Funniest and most subtle joke I've read on here for some time.:cool:

Edited by rodeo_joe|1
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"That is what we used in the film days, when cameras did not have built in meters."

 

- Crikey Gary! How old are you?

 

They've been fitting meters (uncoupled or otherwise) in cameras for at least the last 70 years. TTL metering is well over 45 years old.

 

 

Senior citizen.

 

My first camera was my father's Exacta. It was a cool left-handed camera.

No meter, preset and full manual lenses.

 

Next camera was a Mamiya/Sekor 1000DTL.

Oooo, TTL meter and auto lens :)

But stop down metering.

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They've been fitting meters (uncoupled or otherwise) in cameras for at least the last 70 years. TTL metering is well over 45 years old.

 

My most used camera these days is meterless. I could put a winding knob on it with a selenium meter, but consider that less than useless. There are also metered prisms, but they are heavy.

 

I shot some transparency film the other day and adjusted the camera between EV 13 and EV 11 depending on my judgement of the scene. On the whole, it looked pretty darn good.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Canon AT-1 bodies sell on eBay from about $20. Ditch the one with the broken meter and get one that works. If you can't afford $20 for a working camera, I don't see how you expect to pay for film and development.

 

You are asking for 'great exposure', not exposure somewhere around the acceptable range. You won't get that with a broken meter, and you won't get that with sunny f16 - at least not without a lot of practice. That involves trial and error, which will cost you a lot more than a camera with working meter.

Edited by fmueller
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use the phone Luke!

 

there are so many light meter apps for the phones. they are pretty accurate too. My son convinced me when we were out shooting together. I whip out my Pentax spot n he an iPhone... comparing results... on the money. His app just cant figure zones. but im sure theres an app for that too.

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The more you say, the less people listen.
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His app just cant figure zones. but im sure theres an app for that too.

 

The app I use is a "spot" meter with a rectangle in the center of the screen. I can also set it to display in EVs in addition to shutter speed/aperture.

 

I'm not a strict zone system photographer, but EVs can be directly for zone system since a 1EV difference is the same as a one zone difference. All I know is that as a Hasselblad shooter who uses early "locked" lenses, dealing directly in EVs makes my life a whole lot easier :)

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"That is what we used in the film days, when cameras did not have built in meters."

 

- Crikey Gary! How old are you?

 

They've been fitting meters (uncoupled or otherwise) in cameras for at least the last 70 years. TTL metering is well over 45 years old.

 

There's really no excuse for not using a meter these days. Phone app or cheap used meter from a charity shop - they're all far more accurate than the Sunny 16 guesstimate, or some paper table that takes so long to use the light's changed or the subject is gone by the time you've figured it out!

 

"Do you have a Digital SLR.?

You can use that to practice Sunny-16"

 

- Nice one Denny. Funniest and most subtle joke I've read on here for some time.:cool:

 

If the camera I use at the time doesn't have a meter I often not use a meter. Also I never use a camera meter that requires mercury battery either.

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Also I never use a camera meter that requires mercury battery either.

 

Well in this case, you have no choice, because they don't make mercury batteries anymore.

At least I have not seen an "in date" PX625 mercury battery in over 15 years.

 

But they do make zinc-air batteries that will replace the mercury batteries, so you can still use those meters. If the meter still works.

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Well in this case, you have no choice, because they don't make mercury batteries anymore.

At least I have not seen an "in date" PX625 mercury battery in over 15 years.

 

But they do make zinc-air batteries that will replace the mercury batteries, so you can still use those meters. If the meter still works.

 

I chose not to use any of the substitute batteries. I decided not to use them because on a number of cameras I tested I connect an exact 1.35V power supply to them and test the meter. Those old camera meters aren't accurate even when supplied with correct voltage. On one camera in particular where I had the service manual and can do the adjustment I still can get it to work correctly. The meter respond is not linear. If I get correct reading at high light level it would be not correct at low light level and vice versa.

Besides that I have the option of using a hand held meter but I don't use it either except when I am shooting at home.

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Well in this case, you have no choice, because they don't make mercury batteries anymore.

At least I have not seen an "in date" PX625 mercury battery in over 15 years.

 

They exist.

 

It depends on how much you want to pay and how much you want to skirt the lines of legality in the US. Let's just say that I have...obtained...some Hg PX625s in the not too distant past and have some in my refrigerator. They actually have quite a long shelf life, even though the ones I have were less than a year old when I bought them. In general, though, I stick to zinc-air batteries.

 

BTW, should one opt to use Hg cells these days, it is absolutely imperitive that you have them properly disposed of. That also is true if you buy old cameras that still have cells in them-especially if the cells are very, very dead. Not too long ago, I had a stuck battery lid on an F finder. After trying various tricks, I finally decided to drill it so that I could spin it off with a point spanner. I got through the cover and inadvertently went into the battery-I knew I'd done that when I saw elemental mercury "wetting" the bit. I ended up draining a couple of decent sized beads of mercury metal out of the battery chamber before I removed it.

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They exist.

 

It depends on how much you want to pay and how much you want to skirt the lines of legality in the US. Let's just say that I have...obtained...some Hg PX625s in the not too distant past and have some in my refrigerator. They actually have quite a long shelf life, even though the ones I have were less than a year old when I bought them. In general, though, I stick to zinc-air batteries.

 

BTW, should one opt to use Hg cells these days, it is absolutely imperitive that you have them properly disposed of. That also is true if you buy old cameras that still have cells in them-especially if the cells are very, very dead. Not too long ago, I had a stuck battery lid on an F finder. After trying various tricks, I finally decided to drill it so that I could spin it off with a point spanner. I got through the cover and inadvertently went into the battery-I knew I'd done that when I saw elemental mercury "wetting" the bit. I ended up draining a couple of decent sized beads of mercury metal out of the battery chamber before I removed it.

I think I have a link to a website in russia that would sell the real mercury batteries. Not that expensive. I don't try to use them because meters of those era are not very accurate any way.

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