Film camera without batteries

<p>I've been looking around for a camera that could be used with no power. I don't mind having EVERYTHING be manual, though built in exposure metering would be nice if it lasted a long time.<br>

Are there any Canon cameras usable without batteries, if not designed for such? Would rangefinders be a better direction?</p>

<p>A scan thru this site should find the info you are looking for.</p>

<p>http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/SLRs/index.htm</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Alex, the very early Canonflex SLRs had accessory selenium meters, the later Canonflex RM had one built into the body. These operated without batteries though today good working units are getting harder to find. The Canon FX also had a built-in selenium cell.<br>

I've got a trio of perfectly functional Canon selenium meters: accessory units for rangefinder P and original Canonflex, and one in an RM body.</p>

<p>You've come to the right forum, Alex.<br>

Unless someone more knowledgeable corrects me, I believe every Canon SLR built before the revolutionary AE-1 could be used without a battery. Assuming the meter is functional, the battery in these cameras is only required to operate the internal meter. You certainly don't need it to operate the various shutter speeds. I believe the Canon FX was the first body they built that had an internal meter (but it wasn't through the lens). Their top of the line Pellix introduced TTL metering but it was stop-down metering. I don't think Canon had a 'open' TTL metering system until they introduced the F-1 and FTb. Both of these are great bodies and look and feel great. Canon was decidedly behind Minolta, Asahi, Konica, Topcon and others when it came to metering. But all that changed when they introduced the AE-1 (first camera with a CPU controlling the shutter). Other than a few missteps around the introduction of auto-focus, Canon has reigned as the market leader since that time. Don't let any Nikon-snob tell you otherwise....<br>

But I digress. To answer your question, you don't need a Canon to have a battery-free SLR. Any SLR from the 60s to the mid-70s will do that job. But even if the meter works, most of these older cameras use a now-banned mercury battery. Modern replacements can be found but it's a problem nevertheless. It may be heresy to say so in this forum, but the Nikon F2 (which was considered by many to be the finest hand built mechanical SLR) uses a LR44 battery which can be found in any dollar store. I think the Olympus OM-1 also uses the same battery to run the meter.</p>

<p>Look, it's a matter of preference and esthetic. And don't forget that it's the lenses which really matter. The battery or lack thereof should not be your deciding factor. </p>

<div></div>

<p>Here's a non FD option...</p><div></div>

<p>I believe Capital is correct, and all of them before the mid-1970s 'A' series were clockwork cameras, which only needed the battery to drive the meter. Like Rick says, the early SLRs and the late rangefinders had battery-less selenium meters. (The 7sz had a CdS meter, if I recall correctly).</p>

<p>Years ago I had a second-hand Canon FP, which is a totally cool (but uncommon) camera. The FP is an FX with no light meter-- just a plain unadorned prism, and a mechanical shutter-- nowhere to put a battery. Like an idiot, I sold it. So last year I found another one! </p>

<p>When I want to feel like it's the 1960s again, my retro 35mm kit is my Canon P rangefinder with the 35/2, and the Canon FP SLR with the 100/3.5 FL. (And now I'm starting to sound like one of those camera fondlers on that other forum . . . )</p>

<p>WHY?<br>

For what reason do you want a camera that does not use a battery?<br>

The Canon A series will operate with pretty heavy use for more then a year on a single battery half the size of an AA battery that is easy to find. Same with the New F-1</p>

<p>Wow. Thanks for all the responses guys. I don't have time to read them tonight, but I will tomorrow morning. I've recently learned (as Mark said) that, while battery powered, most old meters will last a LONG time. This is fine. I'm not opposed to electricity--I just want something that will last a long time only needing film.</p>

<p>So, be back tomorrow.</p>

<p>Dave: My FX has a dead meter so I guess I have an FP as well. <br>

Seriously, that's a rare camera. And no reason to be ashamed, I'm a 'camera fondler' and proud of it...<br>

Nothing against batteries (I have A series cameras), but a clockwork camera never lets you down in any lighting condition. </p>

<p>Clockwork, I love it!<br /> The reward for finding an operational selenium cell is no battery availability issues, period. For general photography and especially when using black & white, those non-TTL meters are plenty accurate especially in more experienced hands. It is a slower-paced art form to be sure, and so enjoyable!<br /> Historical note: Canon's first SLR with an internal meter was the Canonflex RM. With an April '62 release date it predates the Canon FX by two full years. First with TTL metering? The Pellix, from April '65.</p>

<p>Wonder why Mark hasn't been in here yet? He had strong views on the subject.</p>

<p>Oh sorry, there's Mark's post. Missed that. My bad - haven't had my morning coffee yet.</p>

<p>Well something to think about while your recommending Selenium cell meters the last of these Canon used was in the Demi C in 1965 and the the 7s Rangefinders in 1968 and their performance was less then ideal.<br>

The meter in the 7s had an EV rating of +6 to 19<br>

in comparison the meter in the A-1 has an EV rating of -2 to 18 that is 8 stops lower light reading ability if my math is correct.<br>

The T-90 EV 1 to 20<br>

The New F-1 EV 1 to 18<br>

Selenium cells are great for daytime outdoor shots and SUCK for anything even remotely like low light.</p>

<p>Rick: I agree with your comment about finding a decent working selenium meter (in camera or hand held). My experience has been that even when they're slightly off, they're predictably off. With a CdS battery meter, I'm never sure where on the battery's bloody discharge curve I'm at when I'm trying to match needle my composition (but still, nothing that a bit of bracketing can't fix). Was the Canonflex RM's meter a battery-driven meter or selenium? By the way, I have 2 Pellix cameras (with gorgeous 58mm/f1.2 glass) and both meters still work when compared against my A1.<br /> Mark: I agree that the metering on the A1 is far superior to anything from the 60s' Golden Age. But when I'm doing a lot of low-light or night photography (I used to do a lot of light paintings: see below), the A1's battery runs down pretty fast when frequently using the slower shutter speeds. And if you don't have a spare battery handy, your session is done when the battery runs out...Frankly, I never have to worry about that with a clockwork camera.</p><div></div>

<p>Q, the Canonflex RM's meter is a typical selenium cell, i.e. self-powered. As far as low light levels go, yes they are limited. Some Se meters have two selectable ranges, high and low, with the latter still usable for average indoor lighting.</p>

<p>I've had the PX 28 Lithium battery in my Canon A1 for six years and it shows no sign of packing up, the only reason I can see for needing a none battery dependant camera is if you do a lot of time exposures because the battery won't last long for several exposures of say ten minutes because the battery powers the electro magnet that holds the shutter open.</p>

<p>From my perspective, there are three basic familiies of Canon 35mm SLRs which are. except for metering, not battery dependent: Canonflex, Canon FL and Canon FD. For someone looking for their first such camera, I'd suggest one from the FD family. They are the most recent models and, as such, are easier to find in good working order.</p>

<ol>

<li>The Canonflex series were the first Canon 35mm SLRs (1959-1963). Because of their age, they'll usually be in need of service. There were four models. The last one, the Canonflex RM, had a non-TTL selenium meter which didn't require a battery. However, as others have noted, these meters are often inaccurate or non-functional. The Canonflex lenses have the same basic breech lock mount as the FL and FD cameras, but the diaphragm mechanisms are different. Using newer FL and FD lenses, which are plentiful and cheap, is very inconvenient.</li>

<li>The FL family (1964-1970) includes the FX, FP, Pellix, FT and TL. The FP is the only one that does not have a meter. The others have CdS meters that require a battery. The meter in the FX is external (i.e., non-TTL), requiring the user to transfer the exposure settings manually after taking a reading. The meters in the rest, which are TTL, require the lens to be stopped down to the selected aperture to take a reading. Any of the newer FD lenses will mount and meter properly on any of the FL cameras in stop down mode.</li>

<li>The FD family (1971-1975) includes the F-1, FTb, TLb, EF and TX. Upgraded versons of the first two models are usually referred to as the F-1n and FTbN. The meters in all of these models require batteries. They are TTL meters that do not require the lens to be stopped down to get a reading when using an FD lens. All but a handful of FL lenses will mount and meter properly in stop down mode on any of these cameras. Note that the shutter on the EF is a hybrid. Shutter speeds faster than 1 second don't require batteries, but speeds from 1 to 30 seconds do require batteries.</li>

</ol>

<p>The original mechanical F-1 and F-1n were superceded by the New F-1 (or F-1N) in 1981. While it will also operate without a battery, I personally consider this model to be a member of the Canon A series of SLRs. Like the EF, the F-1N has a hybrid shutter that will operate at the faster speeds (X sync and faster) with no battery installed.</p>

<p>As a long time Canon SLR user, I've recently acquired several of their rangefinder models as well as a working selenium Cano-Meter. Last year, I ran a roll of Kodachrome 25 through my Model P based on this meter's readings and got excellent results. However, I also have two other Cano-Meters that are non-functional.</p>

<p>Capital if you want to do long exposures why don't you just prepare for it. Make a $10.00 remote battery pack for your A series. After all it is just a 6 volt battery.</p>

<p>Cut a section of 7/16" wood dowel about 3-4mm shorter then the battery. Push two brass thumb tacks into the ends with some 22 gauge speaker wire connected to the nails. Put this connector in place of the battery. Run the wire out through the little notch in the bottom of the battery door put there for this purpose. Run the wire a couple feet to a Cheap Radio Shack 4) AA batery holder and wire it up. Put 4 cheap AA batteries in it and play all night.<br>

Canon made a remote battery pack but they are super hard to find and like I say you can make one in a few min for less then $10.00 with the batteries.</p>

<p>for the life of me I have the hardest time trying to figure out why camera batteries are a problem for some people.<br>

I carry a couple spare PX-28's and a couple sets of spare AA's I have never run out of batteries in the field.<br>

We went on Vacation to Europe in 3 weeks the wife and I shot 85 rolls of 36 exp film. I never changed the batteries in my T-90 or her AE-1P.<br>

The only time I have ever had a battery problem is with my EF during the time I was carrying it in the various trucks I drove for a landscape supply. And throwing it in and out of my truck bag I managed to leave the switch on for a few days. Dang battery dead I just went to using it mechanically and guessing on the exposures until I picked up new batteries at a drug store after work. Now had I been doing something like a Photo shoot instead of grab shots</p>

 

<p>Mark: Did you say "cut a section of 7/16" wood dowel"? Ok, I'm lost already...Seriously, my preference for clockwork cameras has more to do with their design elegance rather than any availability of batteries. But as always, I respect your opinion on this issue. I don't think anything I could say is going to have you jettison your trusty A1 for an old Pellix. But you should give it a try just once... </p>

<p>The wood dowel is just a spacer to take the place of the battery. If you want to make one I can draw up plans<br>

I also shoot with a 1951 Canon Model III with a rapid winder and a 1955 Leica If with no built in viewfinder or rangefinder. I also shot 7 rolls in Europe with a Demi S that has a Selenuim meter cell.<br>

And I have an extensive Paxette collection.<br>

I understand the draw to cool older cameras. I don't understand the fear of a battery. Since you have made it clear that is not your worry I understand. I didn't get that in your first posts in this Thread.</p>

<p>I hear you, Mark. Why don't you post some of your Demi S shots in the Half Frame Portraits Thread on the Classic Cameras Forum. Would love to see your images. Cheers. </p>

<p>Capital I would be gald to except they have never been scanned. I do have one around here somewhere on line. <img src="http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/UJ78/Misc/Churhill0001w.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>My enviromental portrait of Winston Churchill while on the phone to FDR during WWII</p>

<p>A tip o' the hat to Gordon for correctly stating that the FX uses a CdS cell...the typical selenium cell usually covers alot more acreage on a camera body.<br>

As was pointed out, there's at least several clans within the "FD" community...perhaps they need naming? The Canonflexes, the early F bodies (and Pellix), F-1, A bodies, T bodies, New F-1. Oh wait, the EF too! Then we've got four ranges of lenses over a period of almost 30 years that are more or less functional on the original Canon breechlock mount. You can have as much mechanical or electronics as you want, or can stand!<br>

Random thought: with the waist level finder installed an F-1/n becomes a true all-mechanical SLR (and maybe Canon's last?) as there's no metering function possible. Keep that factoid for future Trivial Pursuits use!</p>

<p>Actually Rick the last mechanical FD mount body was the TLb marketed in April 1976 just before the AE-1 came out in July. Granted it had a meter in it but without a battery it still functioned just fine.</p>

 

<p>Canon made a A series Battery cord for the A battery pack. </p><div></div>