david_simon Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I have a D500 and an SB800. I want to use mild fill flash, eg 1/16 or 1/32 on the combo for bird photography. The SB800 manual says I have to set the compensation on the camera but I can only find EV settings on the camera of minus 1 to 3 EV. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels - NHSN Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Which flash are you using? Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Which flash are you using? read ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I don't have the SB-800 any more but if I recall correctly, you should be able to set the flash exposure compensation on the flash itself if it is mounted on the hot shoe. If you use it remotely then the flash compensation is set in the controller or master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simon Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 Ilkka , Once you put the flash on the camera the compensation is controlled by the camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels - NHSN Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 read ... Good point - I read D800 duh! Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Katz Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I don't own the flash or any Nikon stuff, but most high end flash units have manual mode that allows you to manually adjust the flash output from 100% or less, to like 1/16 of maximum, if that's what you want. I would expect this option to be on the flash unit itself. That is how my Canon and Olympus flash units worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 I have both the D500 and the SB 800 flash. Nikon cameras allow for both camera exp comp and flash exp comp. They are additive. And either or both can be set to + or - or a mix. To set true fill flash, like from film days, The flash has to be set to TTL, not TTL BL. You make this setting on then flash with the Mode button. You could use TTL BL, but the control of the amount of fill flash is affected by other factors. One way to set flash exp comp on a D 500 is to do it on the camera. In your manual go to page 229. The button to push to set it is on the back of the camera. Flash Compensation - Nikon D500 User Manual [Page 229] When I set fill flash I often use rear curtain synch. You could use front curtain synch if you wanted to. You can also set flash exp comp on the back of the SB 800. The D 500 supports either camera or the flash to set flash exp comp. For nature subjects, I usually start out at minus 1.3 to 2.3 and adjust from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) Weirdly, Nikon switches between EVs for flash compensation, and fractions for manual flash control. Traditionally that's how manual 'power' control appears on a hotshoe flash I suppose. The relationship between the two is straightforward. Minus EVs are inverse powers of 2. - 1 EV = 1/2 power - 2 EV = 1/4 power - 3 EV = 1/8 power So you're limited to having the fill-flash at 1/8 of the key light by using flash compensation. However, as mentioned TTL-BL is different from straight TTL. The BL stands for "Balanced Lighting", a non intuitive way of saying Fill Flash. So TTL-BL should never equal or overpower the ambient light, but always only give a fill light. The SB-800 manual says that Flash compensation can be used in all modes, so presumably can be used to moderate the effect of iTTL-BL and give a less strong fill than normal. Since the default fill level isn't specified, this would obviously need a bit of experimentation to get a desired effect. Another option is to use AA mode on the flash and set the aperture or ISO differently from that on the camera. Setting the aperture two or three stops wider on the flash gives a fill flash exposure that's 2 or 3 EV weaker than the full exposure. Edited July 13, 2022 by rodeo_joe|1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 I think when the OP said 1/16 and 1/32 he didn't mean to have the flash 4 to 5EV less than ambient light but rather 1/16 or 1/32 of the full flash power. Please correct me if I am wrong in understanding the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 While these two links are a little old, they may be helpful for Nikon flash users. flash exposure compensation my take on Nikon's flash settings - TTL vs TTL BL - Tangents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) However, as mentioned TTL-BL is different from straight TTL. The BL stands for "Balanced Lighting", a non intuitive way of saying Fill Flash... My usual mnemonic is that "BL" means Back Light (way more intuitive for me), since in this mode I want to think that the camera exposure maintains the brightness of the background and what it does is to increase illumination of the subject in focus (=fill flash). In certain scenarios this filling of the subject against the background light is insufficient or erratic (I currently use D850 + SB-800), so as Rodeo says, it is advisable to test if the result obtained is satisfactory. Edited July 14, 2022 by jose_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I think when the OP said 1/16 and 1/32 he didn't mean to have the flash 4 to 5EV less than ambient light but rather 1/16 or 1/32 of the full flash power. Please correct me if I am wrong in understanding the OP. But if that's what's wanted, then you simply put the flash into manual mode and set it to 1/16th or 1/32nd. No need for TTL to get involved at all. So I'm pretty sure the OP meant getting a weak fill of - 4 or - 5 EV below ambient with TTL. But IMO Nikon's i-TTL is too flakey to reliably give this sort of control - too many variables thrown into the algorithm mix that controls it. KISS is often the best approach. Nobody sensibly attempts to juggle 10 or more balls at once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 But if that's what's wanted, then you simply put the flash into manual mode and set it to 1/16th or 1/32nd. No need for TTL to get involved at all. So I'm pretty sure the OP meant getting a weak fill of - 4 or - 5 EV below ambient with TTL. But IMO Nikon's i-TTL is too flakey to reliably give this sort of control - too many variables thrown into the algorithm mix that controls it. KISS is often the best approach. Nobody sensibly attempts to juggle 10 or more balls at once! I think a -4 or -5 EV fill would produce an invisible effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I think a -4 or -5 EV fill would produce an invisible effect. -5 EV, in theory, is below the threshold of decent shadow detail, but you have to remember that light is additive. So an ambient-lit shadow sitting at a very dim -5 EV becomes a very visible -4 EV when the -5 EV fill flash is added to it. IMO, the generally touted guide to have a fill-flash at 2 stops below ambient results in very artificial looking lighting, especially when the flash is camera mounted and undiffused. (Phew, I'm relieved that this discussion didn't end up involving the cursed Zone system!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 iTTL is nowhere near as important with digital photography than it was with film for 2 reasons for me. 1) You can get an instant feedback as to whether you got the fill-power right or not and/or where the need for more. Blinkies are handy for highlighting (sorry!) where you've over done it..... and dial down the Manual power by 1 fractional unit. 2) You have so much ability, in post, to darken highlights or lighten shadows etc, it's not so crucial in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 2) You have so much ability, in post, to darken highlights or lighten shadows etc, it's not so crucial in the first place. Better duck for cover after a comment like that Mike. The 'Get it right in camera or go home' brigade definitely won't like that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Ha! What's the status with a higher DR with digital compared to film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgelfand Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 The Art Department at the University of Arizona in Tucson, AZ has a large collection of Ansel Adams prints, negatives, his darkroom notes, and annotated test prints. If you are ever in Tucson, I recommend you take a look. Adams did a large amount of "Post Processing", in the darkroom, of course. He was seldom satisfied with what he "got right", or didn't, in the camera. In fact, if he "got it right in the camera", he never would have written his book, The Print. Or it would have been a much, much shorter book. ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) The Art Department at the University of Arizona in Tucson, AZ has a large collection of Ansel Adams prints, negatives, his darkroom notes, and annotated test prints. If you are ever in Tucson, I recommend you take a look. Adams did a large amount of "Post Processing", in the darkroom, of course. He was seldom satisfied with what he "got right", or didn't, in the camera. In fact, if he "got it right in the camera", he never would have written his book, The Print. Or it would have been a much, much shorter book. ;) STill wondering what adaptations good old Ansel would have made when he would have experienced Digital camera's and Digital Darkroom equipment.... Espaecially because he avoided colour photography most of the time,,, Edited July 17, 2022 by c.p.m._van_het_kaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 avoided colour photography There are some specialist mono sensors with huge dynamic range.....:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 There are some specialist mono sensors with huge dynamic range.....:cool: Ansel would have loved those :cool: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Indeed he would....:) Although I guess with modern sensors set for HDR capture he'd have had colour choice if he changed his mind later....:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Lifting shadow areas can often bring out strong color casts unless corrected region by region. It is no conincidence that Adams did black and white photography. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Lifting shadow areas can often bring out strong color casts unless corrected region by region. It is no conincidence that Adams did black and white photography. He also did coluur, but being the zone system a division of shades between absolute black ( zone 0) and absolute ( if possible) white ( zone 10) , in agreement with his friend Frad Archer, this sytem would get to complicated when also needing to iclude absolute red green and blue, never developed it for colour. There is an impresive collection of landscape pictures in colur published though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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