"Fast XPan lens?" - The Sequel

I have been suggesting a fast lens for the XPan for ages and along

with fellow-user Charles Mason succeeded in getting Victor Hasselblad

AB's Product Manager Camera Systems, Mr. Erland Pettersson, engaged in

an animated mail conversation. While he was giving us little hope, he

agreed on me meeting him at the 'Kina. Here's my brief account on what

I managed to pull out of my 30 min. chat with this most likeable

gentleman.

<p>

They have been evaluating the chances of getting a pano-compatible

45mm f/2 designed. Since heavy vignetting would be unavoidable, they

dropped the plan. I kept insisting on the usefulness of a "just 24x36,

fast 45mm lens", but he would insist on doubting its market potential.

I kept beating a dead horse, as Charles had suspected beforehand, but

I kept having a very respectful and entertaining chat.

<p>

I said that I was ready to offer him venture capital, he frowned,

surprised, but mentioned a sum of more that Euro 100'000,- as a

minimum for designing and tooling such a lens... He said several

thousand units would have to sell before they could break even. I told

him that my suspicion is, that at Hasselblad's they don't want to

interfere with the Zeiss Ikon sales they are in charge of, letting the

XPan be their pano (and just pano) camera and the Zeiss their 24x36,

but he said no, this was not the reason why he wouldn't want to

produce our wish-come-true lens. Just the uncertain market

potential... and on we went for another round. I kept saying that they

could adopt a Zeiss 45mm Planar design, now that the companies had

joined forces, but he said that would not simplify the job. They could

as well start redesigning such a lens from scratch.

<p>

Well, what can I say? He said they were very pleased and surprised by

the steady success they are having with the XPan. But he wouldn't give

me a total of units sold in the (exact) past 6 years. So, it's hard to

estimate how many units of a 45/2 could actually be sold. He did

agree, though, that the XPan was an outdoors/tripod camera and that he

himself wouldn't have brought it to the Photokina to take pictures,

either. He told me to keep my Leica - which in fact I was carrying -

on such occasions. I tried to convince him that I would rather take

the XPan plus an additional fast lens as a light and universal

package, but... (am I boring you?)

<p>

IF he could turn the wheel of time backwards, he would redesign the

XPan with an M mount... :-(((sob...)

<p>

Bottomline: A nice conversation, an intelligent guy, NOT a user. I

guess that a survey on suggestions for improvements which they

evaluated before redesigning the XPan II and which (according to Mr.

Pettersson) hadn't revealed the wish for a faster lens - even at the

cost of being just 24x36 compatible - was conducted mostly among

dealers, not photographers, but there you go...

<p>

Sorry for not bringing home better news.

<p>

Cheers,

Lutz

Obviously I want one, even at 24x36, I wouldn't be making one if I didn't. How many people here want and would pay for one. I think f2 is near the limit of the Xpans rangefinder accuracy. This is a survey not an offer to make loads!

Peter, and all,

 

I have posted a request for a 'cron mount, so I cam use my 'cron lens head on my XPan. The f1.4 is a bit much for the rangefinder on the 'pan, and it probably needs to be calibrated for each individual Xpan. If you like the result I may be persuaded to make one for you.

Lutz,

 

there was a small booth of a chinese company exhibiting a 360? roundshot camera, an Alpa copy and an Xpan-Adapter for R-Lenses. Haven?t handled that (and I don?t care much for the Xpan), but the Alpa inspired camera looked and felt right, was of good finish.

 

Perhaps the adapter is a help for you guys?

 

http://www.ktcamera.com/XPan/Xpan-eng.htm

 

Best, Roman

Thanks Roman, but it has no rangefinder coupling, they are just spacers.

Well, Huw, maybe I've missed something but are you saying that you are working on a Summicron-to-Xpan conversion...?! That's thrilling news! Please count me in on this. Do you think a Summicron 40mm conversion would be viable? I would prefer that as a fast lens compromise in focal length.

Damn, found out. 40mm is a bit short, the back of the lens starts to intrude into the mask area of the Xpan. The Summicron 50 (well my old rigid has, never seen a new one) has a good gap between the M mount and the rear element and if I can find an old 'cron mount I will have a good quality lens for my Xpan or my M6 but not both at the same time!

 

I also have a Russian LTM 50 f2 in the post, this might be easier to modify, and considerably cheaper than a whole Summicron. So I put out the call for an old 'cron mount there must be some out there with totaly shot, or missing, lenses.

The other point you could have mentioned Lutz is that if there were a fast lens for the XPan more people would buy it in the first place - me for example. A fast 35, 40 or 50 could actually increase Xpan sales, not just sales of that particular lens. It is the thought of having it limited just to slow speeds which has, up till now, kept me back. I don't know how he could factor this into his calculations of recouping costs, but it may well change things.

Lutz reported "I kept saying that they could adopt a Zeiss 45mm Planar design, now that the companies had joined forces, but he said that would not simplify the job." I reply, oh yes it does make it much simpler and cheaper.

 

It ends up being a lens mount design modification job, not the most difficult thing in the world. I wish I had a helicoid cutting machine at my disposal I would do a proper job using some off the shelf RF lens, not my helical cam system.

 

Is the Xpan bayonet patented? I think not, come on CV.

Robert, I actually did mention this argument of yours earlier in my conversation with Mr. Pettersson. To no avail, though. I, too, think that they are making a mistake...<p>

Huw, how about the collapsible Summicron, the new Voigtl䮤er 40/1.4?!

Lutz, cut the rep some slack - you put him (and the company) in an impossible situation. He was trying to tell you that you were talking to the wrong guy AT THE WRONG STAND....it's FUJI who makes the camera and the lenses!

....and Hassey did not (let alone Zeiss) design those Fujinons (as they are known in Japan) either, AFAIK.

Lutz, and all,

 

I am getting a CV40/1.4 I will see if it could be made to fit. I also like the collapsible 'cron idea, bayonet to bayonet adapter, some thing to keep the lens locked IN and a rangefinder cam extender/helical correction cam. Whats more this is reversible, an adaptor kit perhaps, change your lens in a few minutes.

 

Anyone got a spare??

huw, i've been following your creative modifications with admiration. never

caring much about light meters myself, i was content to watch from afar....

 

but the modification to make an SLR lens actually FOCUS on the XPan is

brillant...

 

would it be too hard to take your specifications for the focusing cam to a

machine shop and have them make, say, several hundred of them at once?

 

i realize that it has to be for a specific lens, like the Chinon 50mm f/1.4 that

you modified. But couldn't you just pick a common one (how about a Canon

50mm f/1.4 FD?) and make it for that?

 

Also, how did you get the XPan bayonet ring? did you just order that from

hasselblad/fuji?

 

thank you

Alan, and all,

 

No problem getting a M/C shop to make lots, just expensive for a one off. I am getting more interested in the collapsible 'cron mod for series production. And yes I got the flange from Hassy UK, wasn't cheap though about 50UKP + tax + post!

Huw, what "spare one" is it exactly you are looking for? <p>

 

As far as I understand, you need to design an XXX-lens-to-XPan adapter that will not only mechanically allow for holding the lens but at the same time translate the XXX-focus cam movement to the XPan rangefinder, right?

<p>

Now, if the VC 40/1.4 could be adapted, that would be great! Same for the Olympus Zuiko 40/2 (which should provide a lot of flange to film distance, since the OM system has the shutter ring designed in between lens and mirror(!) - if you could come up with an OM to XPan adapter that would be a killer...

<p>

What about the Chinese "spacers" - don't they provide XPan flanges at a bit less than the original part's cost?<p>

Please keep us posted.

Lutz,

 

The 'spare one' was a collapsible 'cron to make the reversible adaptor kit for.

Lutz, I very much like your idea of the CV 40/1.4 - its in production and easily available. What worries me about the OM 40/2 is finding one. What would interest me the most though would be a summicron or rokkor 40/2 since these are great lenses and pretty easily available.

Huw, I have a Summitar, actually a screwmount lens, which I use with an LTM-to-M adapter. Would you need to modify the lens so it could never be used again on a Leica? BTW, I have a spare M flange (the body part) is that of any use for your project? Let me know.

Lutz,

 

If it is a collapsible the idea is that it will still be useable on a Leica. Having never seen one I can't comment but I think it can be done. The body mount would be a useful item too. Best mail me direct to organise something. Sounds like I am going to be busy, someone is sending me a very dead rigid 'cron FOC for my version of this project!