FAST recycle on light? used?

Ok, I have a question for you. First, it might be helpful to read

some background info from my latest post:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005Kvb

 

This situation will come up again next year. I'd like to have a fixed

flash unit (either pack/head or monolight) setup and fire it via a

radio flash. It must be able to handle a fast recycle rate at fairly

high power, and also should have a fairly quick flash (must be above

1/500 if possible).

 

Thanks.

You've narrowed it down to just about everything on the market. Have a look around and choose something within your budget.

How fast is fast? Most AC powered studio lights have

recycle times in the neighborhood of a second or so

at full power, faster

at partial power. That won't keep up with

5fps motor drive bursts at full power, but it's fast

enough for most ordinary photography. Read the specs.

Some lights will overheat if you fire them as quickly

as possible for extended bursts, again, you'll need to

check the manufacturer if you're getting close to this.

<p>

But that link said you'll be photographing a HS graduation!

This isn't exactly a sporting event -- seniors will only

walk across the stage as fast as the announcers recite their

names, so I'd guess a one or even two second recycle time wouldn't

be a big limiting factor.

Thanks.

 

Seeing how things have gone in the past, I'd like 1 second recycle at full power, if not a bit faster. I'd like to be able to get off three shots in as many seconds, and keep this up for about 90 people, with a few seconds in between. It would also get use not only in my studio stuff (where power is more important than speed) but also for other school events, where recycle might be more important.

if you're using a batter powered flash make sure you have enough power and probably an extra power pack to keep your recycling time low. If you can get away without shooting full power each time you'd be better off.

 

make sure you get a quality unit that can take that kind of punishment without burning out. Keep an extra at the ready in case it does.

Have you looked into Speedtron? Speedtrons the way to go. I own stock in

Speedtron. They're the best. Get some speedtrons. Do it now. NOW...

Yes, I've looked into speedotron. In fact, I saw some 2400 Black-Line pack/head kits (used) that I liked the condition, features, and price of. However, Speedotron was very unhelpful. When asked if they could send me any information on these (now discontinued) units, this is the response I got:

 

We do not have any literature on old units. We

can mail you copies of our current literature.

 

 

I find this unacceptable. I'm a high school student, I don't know how I'd find the money for a used system, and I know that I definately can't afford a new one.

CRITTER is good with that Speedotron recommendation. Go to www.speedotron.com for specs. A 1200ws will recycle the fastest. But just as faster, faster is the Force 10 which will recycle with motor drives. The 1200ws recycles in .7 sec. One way to up your power and lower your recycle time is to use Speedotrons sport or parabolic 16" reflector. These are used at pro basketball games. You could keep your lights away from the stage, and still get all the power you need, plus since your lights are farther away, you benefit from the geometric rule of light fall-off. You'll have lit backgrounds! Using two heads would let you paint the stage with light. Use this reflector on any Blackline model, monolight or head. To do it cheaply, just buy a 2401a model at the auctions for $450 plus heads. The difference between older and newer models was a change in capacitors. you are going to have to be careful with our speed as you may pop a fuse at 2400ws! Timber Borcherding timberborcherding

I just bought a used Speedotron 4-tube head for $225. Flash duration is about 1/3200th An alternative to ac packs is to usea couple of Norman 200b used for about $170 each. They also have a telescopic reflector and have capacitors of 2000uf for 250ws. You will need to change batteries every 100 shots on full power. Recycle in about 1.5 seconds. At 50ws recycle is about .6 seconds. Can be used with motor drives! Timber Borcherding timberborcherding

It's a good thing you're a high school student. Speedos are the heaviest strobes ever made. Just strap them to a good handtruck and never take 'em off. You could weld a lightstand to the handtruck too, while you're at it... t <p>p.s. what makes you think you need this sort of capability, high end fashion with high paid models in illegal locations?

A 2400ws pack may be rated at 20 amps, but it draws 60-70 amps. You are best to use a maximum power setting of 800ws at the pack for their ac fusebox. The sports reflectors will give you about 2 1/2- 3 stops more power (guess) for 2400ws light on the person. These 2401a, 2401b, 2401c, 2401cx models changed in simple ways: they changed the switches, used larger can capacitors to reduce weight, and added low voltage sync for electronic cameras. You can reduce this voltage by buying a $20 adapter. A must for new Canon cameras, and an old pack. Confirm everything with the tech dept. Timber Borcherding

Speedotron weighs 27 pounds in 2400ws. That is an easy carry. A $10 metal luggage tote will do the job. Cheaper than Speedotron is a used Norman 800ws, about $200 used, two heads for $220 used. Use their chromed 9" reflector for power. It is called P800d. You can, by the way use Speedotron heads on Norman if you re-wire the pins. A dangerous proposition if you mis-wire! Lethal! Deadly! Yu can also use a conversion cable created by a tech. This will let you use that one-of-a-kind sports reflector. Timber Borcherding

You could also wire a Norman 200b to any 12v car battery! No mre changing of batteries! No ac fuse problem! Used about $200 with head included. You could charge this battery while you are shooting from it!

The link talks about why. I'm planning to go to school in photography and hopefully take it up professionally, so I'd like to be sure that whatever equipment I buy now, will do me good then.

 

Timber, where did you get those prices from?

 

Also, I shoot 8x10. Currently, I shoot 8x10 with barrel lenses. I want LOTS of flash power. I shoot mainly ISO 100 but also some down to 25. Then again, If I clear up some room in the darkroom (fairly large) and do some studio shots there, I can darken the room totally and just multipop to my heart's content.

Those are Ebay used prices. P2000's Norman go for $350. Put a Speedo head on a Norman after re-wiring. The Norman 200b can be cooled by simply opening the battery door. No other pack can do this. Keep any pack out of direct sun! Speedo heads are 1 full stop more efficent than Norman heads. This is due to reflector design. Have any Speedo or Normans repaired by Holly Enterprises.

Critter, it was worth a try, but the only irony some folks recognize is the iron in the sturdy workhorse powerpacks that SPEEDOTRON makes. [grin]<p>

It's kinda annoying, as Speedotron does make good equipment (I own a bunch of it), and it's appropriate for many uses...just not every single solitary lighting situation whose post Timber notices and adds a dozen responses to.<p>

Jason, check out the <a href="http://www.photo.net/learn/studiolighting/">article on choosing studio strobes</a> in the Learning section, and see which capabilities YOU <b>NEED</b>. Then look into the various options. (For what it's worth, while I love Speedotron systems for durability, this isn't a situation <i>I'd</i> recommend it.)<p>

If it comes down to it, rent a system for two days, and do that again next year. It'll be cheaper than buying something you probably won't need very often.<p>

If you feel you must buy, just about every half-way decent pack-and-head system or monolight system will recycle within a second and give better than f/8 at 20 feet or so. (That'd be a GN of 160--MUCH lower than most studio systems.)

I have to agree with Kevin. I have loads of Speedotron also and love it, however it's not the most portable. I also think that renting would be the way to go for you. If you are only going to use these things once per year and are on a limited budget why do you want to buy, even if it's used? If you rent you can have your pick of several brands and if it turns out that you don't like it you have lost nothing. It's a great way to "test drive" equipment before deciding on what to buy.

I'll be using the stuff quite often, this is simply one occasion that I have in mind and was wondering what would be best. My main uses for it while not doing event work will be portraiture, tabletop, and interiors, all in 8x10.

 

As to renting, it's highly impractical to do. I just think a lot before I buy. I was told to rent before I bought my ETRS, and before I bought my 8x10. I'm very happy with both. Renting to try something out simply doesn't make monetary sense for me. If I rent, that means that a large chunk of my purchasing budget is gone. If I buy a used pack and two heads for $900, the rental would cost about $120. That's over 10% of my budget.

The multi-pop king is a 1000ws Speedotron Force 10 monolight. You can multi-pop at 2-3 times A SECOND via a remote Palm computer. That is at 37-50 ws. You can do delayed pops and generally create yur own program. It weighs 8 lbs., it takes the sports reflector and all of the accessories you need. It is air-cooled. Speedotron packs, blackline series do not use "iron" tranformers. They are a capacitor multiplication system for toughness. These weenies crying about weight need to put casters under their equipment. I own Force 10. I believe it is a 10 amp system at 500 volts. You won't pop fuses; but you will create a hot fuse! At Adorama for $719 new. This is a great way to go if you can afford it! Timber Borcherding

I fail to understand how a dialable (in 1/10th or 1/3rd stops) 1000ws monolight that can recycle 500ws in 1 second and use all sports reflectors, softboxes and ellipsidal, focusable for varying light dispersion angle cannot do this graduation ceremony job. It would be a learning item for me if the reasons for incompatibility were listed. The throwaway slurs on this net do nothing to help the questioner. OK, post why! Timber Borcherding

Why wouldn't I recommend Speedotron for <i>this</i> job?<p>

Well, since Jason doesn't already have a lighting kit, it's not the easiest system to use. Most of the newer pack designs (and probably all the monolight designs) are quite a bit more novice-friendly. They also weigh less. Some don't have the maximum power capabilities or the same durability, but the situation he's discussing would be one where weight is a probable issue, and durability isn't: almost any monolight or pack with one head would work fine--he doesn't need a LOT of light, and he doesn't need an unusually high recycle rate.<p>

A Profoto 7B would work great here, too, but I wouldn't recommend it <i>in this situation</i>, either--it's overkill.<p>

Jason: how close to the stage can you get the light(s)? While it won't have the recycle rate you're looking for, if you can place even a Vivitar 283 40 feet from the stage, you could get about f/2.8 from that using ISO 100. At 20 feet, it'd be f/5.6. Or f/5.6 and f/11 with ISO 400 film. (I'm not recommending that flash, merely using it as an example of how little light you probably need.)<p>

Quantum, Lumedyne, or Norman batery-powered systems are available with more power and much faster recycling times; you may want to check them out if freedom from wall power is a concern.<p>

The key thing is to identify what YOU need, then find a system that solves it for you. Not what anyone else uses.<p>

So far, it's a recycle rate fast than 1/second, a typical flash duration (under 1/500th), and an unspecified amount of power. All of those are available in many different systems, from the low-end Alien Bees (great value) to, well, much more expensive systems.

Broncolor Pulso

He's going to use it later for 8x10--that rules out Vivitar! Speedotron Force 10 is 8 1/2 lb. for 1000ws. On the issue of recycle time the guys at Holly Enterprises summed it up memorably: Loading up the capacitors is equivalent to a "dead short". In otherwords, it is the line voltage/amperage that determines the recycle time. Capacitors drain the line electricity as fast as the voltage of the line permits. A 240 volt system would be quicker.