F80 and SB-80DX; No Spot Metering With 3D Matrix, Why?

It is clearly stated in the SB-80DX manual that you can't use

spotmetering with 3D Matix Balanced Fill Flash mode on F80, if you

try and select spotmetering on the camera flash promptly switches to

the plain TTL mode. According to manual situation is the same with

F100, F5 and digital bodies but not with N90s; I can use spot

metering on N90s together with 3DMBFF without problem . Does anybody

know why this is disabled in newer bodies?

IMO, it's a contradiction to use spot-metering and expect matrix-metering. I guess that the N90's use the spot-meter to emphasize more on the central sensor of the matrix, like center-weighted just with a narrower diameter. Probably, the newer cameras have a more sophisticated 3D-TTL software (hardware?) that makes this feature useless - but that's, again, just a guess.

Spot metering is spot metering. MAtrix metering (in all forms is a very sophisticated form ofaverage metering that takes into account many factors into main subject to camera distance and reflective values of the subject, among other things. In short : spot matrix metering is an oxymoron.

I see what you are talking about. When you switch to spot metering on the N90s the icon on the SB-80DX doesn't change like it does with other bodies. I wouldn't assume from this that you are still in 3DBMFF but rather that the flash just "didn't get the message" to change the icon. <p>

As others have pointed out, you are changing the metering mode from matrix to spot and you can't have both going on at the same time.

Hmmm. Perhaps I should take my own advice and read the manual. I see what you are saying here too Umit. The chart on page 36 of the SB-80DX manual indeed says that 3DBMFF is still in use when you are using a "D" lens and you switch to spot metering on the N90s, N90 and N70 series but not the F5, F100 or N80. <p>

So perhaps the flash is indicating the mode correctly. I always assumed that switching to spot cancelled 3DBMFF.

A simple answer :

1. you should understand..a matrix metering itself and spot metering. a matrix or evaluative metering takes many segment to calculate the light.. in spot it only take very small part of area.

2. The icon didn't change cause it has different era. but if you use spot it automatically change to standart TTL. not a 3D TTL.

Umm. I should have worded my question more carefully. Here I try again.

 

On my N90s I am able to set spotmetering on the camera for my ambient metering (for the background exposure to simplfy things) AND 3D Matrix Balanced Fill Flash mode on the flash for the fill flash. Nothings wrong with that. Flash does its job and fills shadows, and background is exposed as I set.

 

On F80 I can't do that, flash switches back to plain vanilla TTL mode when I set the spotmetering on the camera. The manual exactly states that I can't use spotmetering (for the ambient exposure). When I try to 'force' things by setting spotmetering on the camera, flash promptly switches off from 3DMBFF to straight TTL.

 

However I think I can deceive the flash, first switching to manual mode of the camera (not flash) setting the ambient exposure with spotmetering, then switching to another metering mode (say, center weighted) and setting flash to 3DMBFF, (acceptable thing for the flash) then let flash do the business.

 

I just wonder why can't I spotmeter ambient exposure with flash at 3DMBFF on F80, but CAN on N90s.

<i>On my N90s I am able to set spotmetering on the camera for my ambient metering (for the background exposure to simplfy things) AND 3D Matrix Balanced Fill Flash mode on the flash for the fill flash. Nothings wrong with that. Flash does its job and fills shadows, and background is exposed as I set.</i><p>

Apparently that is the case. It's anybodies guess why Nikon decided to do things differently after the N90s.

POssibly because the flash sensor doesn't have segments that correspond to the 5 focus spot metering zones. So it would be difficult to meansure the light return from spot meter zones accurately.

I guess it's the N90 that is wrong. I guess the Flash can't make a Matrix fill without a matrix camera metering (the flash won't meter, it's TTL, right?)

 

So the flash shouldn't do matrix with a non matricial camera and neither with a non-matricial metering (like spot, for instance)

 

Maybe the N90 with spot metering simply doesn't know how to turn off the 3D matrix on the display of this newer flash. But I believe it won't be making a 3D matrix fill in spot mode.

Well, somewhere between the N90 and F5, Nikon revised the protocol between the body and the flash. Just how extensive the revisions were is not clear, but N90 and F5 do seem to operate the flash in different ways. On the N90, the flash functions are mostly selected on the flash, the body seems to merely echo what those readings were and provides and power cutoff signal for appropriate TTL control. On F5 or later, most flash functions are set from the body, with the apparently able to trigger a host of settings on the flash. Maybe the N90 simply can't turn the flash off of the 3D matrix mode.

Umit, have you tried using "slow sync" flash? Both the N80/F80 and F100 seems to do a very nice job of balancing flash power with repect to ambient room lighting. Probably not as accurate as you would like but it is certainly faster to get the shot off. Just be careful to use a tripod in situations where the shutter speed is very low.

Let me tell you this first. Spot metering + 3D Matrix Balanced Fill Flash is not an oxymoron. Because that is the general name for that kind of flash mode. If you set it to centerweighted metering, then it should be called 3D Centerweight Balanced Fill Flash but everyone still calls it 3D Matrix Balanced fill flash to keep it simple.

 

With the F90x, my SB-26 manual states that you can get 3D Spot Balanced Fill Flash. It's the only body in the entire list of bodies in the manual that can do that.

 

Regards,

Aaron

Aaron,<br><br>

<i>"...3D Spot Balanced Fill Flash..."</i>

sounds much better to me than <i>"...spot metering with 3D Matrix..."</i>. <br><br>

Well, I think that manuals are not always very clear (maybe a translation issue - my german SB-28 manual is sometimes <i>"a Kreuz"</i> :'( )<br><br>

 

Thanks for clarifying!

Sorry Aaron but the F70 function the same thing as the F90 and still keeps it spot matrix fill flash mode.

My only explanation to this answer is with the newer bodies like the F80, F100 and the F5 have the multiple focus points to select your spot which the flash wont be able to handle. Unlike the F70 or F90's centre spot which a flash can concentrate and generally a flash works in one direction ie.. centre.

Anyway theres not much difference when shooting with neg films. I like using average anyway.. bright foreground dark background.. good contrast.

This shouldn't have anything to do with what flash is doing, I suppose! Spotmetering is just a way of setting backgound (ambient) exposure, and I can by-pass this limitation via manual metering as I described before (btw I use 'background exposure' term deliberately to simplify things, I am aware there can be fill flash when there isn't any background at all). This is not a too bothersome thing but within my understanding of Nikon's fill flash, is not a meaningful limitation, that's why I ask.