Discussion in 'Nikon' started by graham_thompson|1, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. Well they have stopped making it (Quote Grays of Westminster today)
    Of course we sort of thought that anyway.
    Odd ones available locally depending on stocks but very few left.
    Bit sad really. End of an era. The F has seen service for what 40 years.
    Just had to buy the last one they had to make a pair!
    Yes memories for a lot of us I guess. No more Nikon film SLR.
    Lets hear your memories.
  2. I guess I'll just have to comfort myself with the $1,700 I'll have instead!

    If I had nothing else to spend it on right now, it would be nice to have such a beast handy, no question... but it in real life, that much money is now buying most of a D700... and with pizza/beer money, you can get a nice used F100 on the side, for dessert.
  3. Felt sick reading that. What a shame.
    I saved hard for my F6, and using it any time is a real pleasure. To hear that it has been discontinued is a sad feeling for me and I will take extra care of the one I have.
  4. Many of us saw that coming already. I am just happy that they continue to produce film for a long time more to come. If not, I will need to buy a huge fridge to bulk buy and store film.
  5. The end of the era of the F series Nikon's is the end of an art form. I know that time marches on but I will never forget the simple fact that the F3 was the most important tool in my development as a photographer and it has served me for well over twenty years. I will not retire her, when she expires she will be placed in a case to be in a position of honor in my den.
    Thank you Nikon for giving me inspiration to fulfill my dreams as a photographer. Thank you F3 for being my teacher.
  6. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    I would imagine that Nikon stopped manufacturing the F6 well over a year ago when the entire D2 series was discontinued. The F6 shares a bunch of components with the D2 such as the Multi-CAM 2000 AF module, etc. It would have made very little sense to make those solely for the F6.
    I am sure whoever really wants an F6 have bought one a while ago. Whatever remaining stock Nikon has will certainly last them for a few years.
    Personally, I have several film SLRs sitting at home doing absolutely nothing: FE, F4, F5 and F100. To me, those are merely tools to help me achieve great images. What I value are the images, not the tools.
  7. Shun, you are 100% right - it is the images that count. That is what is important after all.
    However, I feel that the F6 is an exception in some ways. It was built to make taking photos as silent, smooth, easy and accurately as technology allows. The shutter is so quiet that I can take photos in churches without spoiling the ambience or alerting others. The metering is so good I do not even have to bracket on many occasions. The camera has so little vibration whan taking a photo that it is almost like a rangefinder. When using the F6 you can feel the care taken in design and the passion of those who worked on the camera.
    I am sure that a seasoned pro can coax great images out of even a basic SLR, but I often need a hand when in some tricky lighting situations and my F6 has never failed to bail me out yet.
  8. You don't have to look very hard to find a good deal on a like-new used F6.
  9. Where is this coming from? Anyone got a link to prove this?
  10. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The OP has made it very clear where the source is. Whether that is reliable or not is completely up to you to decide. Typically Nikon does not announce when they stop producing a product. As long as they still have a bunch of them in a warehouse somewhere, it is "in production" on their web site and in the catalogs. There is no link to prove this until it is officially discontinued. But as I pointed out earlier, it would make absolutely no sense to make certain parts only for a low-volume product such as the F6. Most likely, they made a bunch of them back in 2006/2007 to last a few more years with some spare parts around for another decade or so.
    If you choose not to believe this, that is completely up to you.
    If you would like to buy a brand new F6, you should have a few more years before supply runs out.
  11. Not surprising, but end of an era for sure. If I still had a need to shoot 35mm film I'd be tempted to pick one up, but I really can't imagine needing more camera for film than the F100. To me the F100 is the best value in a film camera Nikon ever made, period. The F3HP is my personal favorite when I don't need speed or autofocus.
  12. Sad news....but not surprising. I bought my F6 new almost two years ago. It is a great camera, as we all know. But now there is the D700 for not too much more than what the F6 cost. As long as I can use film and my scanner, I will continue to use my F6 until it no longer functions. I like to think about all the money I "saved" and will save in the future by not having to upgrade my digital camera every two years. :)
  13. I've never shot with an F6, though I did handle one in a camera shop in 2004 when it was new. I didn't ask the dealer to set it up for me to fire it since I had no intent to purchase it that day, so I have no idea how quiet it is. It did feel a lot like an F100 but....better, somehow.
    I suspect that the F6 fits the phrase "To know it is to love it", since it's difficult to convince those that have never used it (or film for that matter) that it is worth considering. Also, given the depreciation of all other 35mm film gear in the last couple of years it's hard to justify even $1,000 for a used F6.
    I also suspect that I will own an F6 someday. I remember looking at an F5 in 1997 when it cost US $2,795 and thinking, "It's more than I'll ever need, but I'll probably buy one someday." Got one in 2004 (used)..
  14. pje


    The F6 is a great camera. I picked one up nearly new a few years ago. As mentioned it shared a lot of parts with the D2 body, so switching between the D2X and the F6 is easy. I like the separate battery grip too, but when I want a much smaller camera off it comes and I have a rather compact SLR. I own all the Nikon Pro bodies (F -> F6) and find shooting with the F6 a real joy; (not to say I don't love the F2 or F3, just different strokes). It fits in the digital world nicely too, by recording all my shooting data and then dumping it via a MV-1 to a CF and into a spreadsheet. I can do about the same thing with the F5 and MF28 back but much more compact and provides more data.
  15. This is a logical progression but it's sad to witness the end of an era.
    For me the F100s were the ones I was very happy with in the developmental phase of my skills. Then came the F6, which is supposed to be the "best". Naturally I liked it, but frankly I had not felt it made a whole lot of difference photographically speaking. I guess the time has come to review and decide what to keep and what to go to eBay (sigh).
  16. Sad but hardly surprising. I do like to shoot B&W film, and there are times when these aging eyes are just finding it somewhat challening to continue using manual focus SLR's or RF's.
    I may yet get an F6 from keh or ebay; along with my 17-35mm and a 50mm/1.4 AFS (in the next couple of months) would make a very nice kit.
  17. Even though I am not a Nikon shooter, I am feeling it too. It's like it was for me when Minolta closed its camera business doors forever...the Maxxum 9 was right there with the F6 in many ways...and the 7 much like the F100. Beautifully designed, well thought-out cameras that crowned an era of excellence not generally surpassed with our new digital wonders.
    Long live the F6 as the highest achievement of 35mm camera design. A testament to strong engineering and listening to your pro photographers about handling in the field! Nikon would do well no to forget this heritage.

  18. I hate hearing that too. I thought it was sad when Nikon stopped making film cameras like the N80 and F100. I understand that cameras are only tools, but I still think there is something to be said about owning and using a camera for 15-20 years or more, that takes pictures as good as the latest models. I still shoot with my F2AS from 1979 - it's been everywhere with me. But you can't blame camera makers for this. Why would they want to sell you a $2000 camera every 20 years, when they can now do it every three?
  19. A half-century of film history coming to an end....I remember people expressing regret and a sense of sadness when the F and F2 were discontinued too. Wow, never no more "F series." Icons of their eras, like 911s, or Colt Peacemakers. We have wonderful photographic tools now that are in many ways better than the old film warhorses, but no one mourned when the D1 or D2 reached the end. Should we burn some incense? A moment of silence? It seems like a mere funeral isn't enough for them. More like piling a mountain of firewood on a old wooden ship, setting the whole thing on fire and pushing it out to sea :)?
  20. Will there be an F7?
  21. I too bought my F6 a couple of years back noting that it would be the last of the great film bodies, it is truly sad to hear of its demise. I use my F6 for family vacations and when the images are more important to me than just bites stored on a hard drive. The sound the shutter is music to my ears... and the time I spend waiting for the films return from A&I is the anticipation of something wonderful, special... somewhat like sex, a love affair I cherish. I too have been beguiled by the digital age... rapid fire, frame after frame... check the LCD... delete and fire again, my D300 is unrelenting in it's thirst for more pixels. But for the moments where your thoughts are your own, time is less important and the image beckons for you to take just one more look... recompose slightly, adjust the f-stop, increase the EV... think for just a moment....... then depress the shutter.... your reward will follow. Thank you Nikon it was a great ride!!!
  22. Yes, Jordan. Let's be optimistic! But I'm afraid that that sentiment is as realistic as our recent political slogan...."Yes, we can!".
  23. Shun, do you not value the process in making the images? To me it is half of the enjoyment of photography.
  24. do you not value the process in making the images?

    I know I do. Thinking about light, choosing a focal length, a point of view, the interplay between shutter speed and aperture. Timing. The reason for the shot in the first place. Evaluating the shot afterwards, thinking through cropping and perhaps some dodging and burning. Showing the image to the subject, and seeing what they think. Learning from the process and the results, and applying that next time. All of those process issues.

    Of course, none of that has anything to do with film vs. digital.
  25. So, it looks like Nikon has kicked itself in the nuts again. I still really can't figure out why the F3(HP) was discontinued, and then the F4(s), and NOW the F6.
  26. I've never understood the idea that the camera has little to do with the final image, it's all in the photographer. I'll be the the first one to say the camera is a tool and each body or lens is one more item in the toolbox. Ask anyone who makes a living with some kind of tools and the good ones will tell you that it matters. Go see a mechanic and ask him why his very large toolbox is full of Snap-On when he could have bought Craftsman for 1/3 the price. A nut is a bolt is cotter pin but well made tools make the job easier if not more pleasant. I have several old and up to date cameras. The F2 just works for me, I can pick it up and go to work without thinking about it. At the least it doesn't get in my way and at best I can produce good work with a tool that becomes an extension of me. The best tools always do. I see that same quality of design and build in all of Nikon's top shelf film bodies and am sad to see them go. So far none of the digital gear is as intuitive. A good bit of that is just in my head but not all of it.

    Rick H.
  27. Last week on my local Craig's list there was an F6 going for a little more than $900. Assuming it was legit, I couldn't believe what the owner was willing to part with it for. I'll never know for sure but I think it was real and a legitimate owner. It seemed like a guy with some money bought it and now just wanted to sell it easily. It will be really interesting to see if the used F6 market drifts lower.
  28. I don't know about all you guys - but after a few glasses of wine - film isn't goin anywhere! Maybe these are the words of a crackpot holdout againt the "machine" - or maybe not. I'll keep my oldass FE2 and my NEW Leica M6 and I'll support the purists among us all...alone if I have to!!!! I WILL KEEP MY FILM!!! I will keep it with all it's low res grainiality and with the beauty of it's (my) interpretation of this world in black and white - - - - - as it has been done for many. many. many 'o year. I am SORRRRRY that Nikon has given up!!! I'm sure the F6 was meant to be their last stand, but I am FAR from MY last stand! There is ART here still!!! I will not relinquish my creative expression of choice! I am truly sorry that Nikon, that light of all lights, has finally succumbed to that [inevitable?] machine!
    I will continue to RAGE against the death of the medium that will let me SAY what I WANT TO SAY! And....for a long time I would hope....'nother glass of vine and hen to bed for me........
  29. uh. That is FILM! by the way.
  30. Sad. But hey, isn't it change we need.
  31. "I still really can't figure out why the F3(HP) was discontinued, and then the F4(s), and NOW the F6.
    in the case of the F3, the F4, and the F5 because they were able to make better cameras. In the case of the F6 , because not enough people were buying them. It's the way of the world chum.
  32. When I bought my F6 at the release I run fast because I thought that there would be just a few ones for sale after to be discontinued promptly... I was wrong, it has been for sale for some years. But looks like only a few fools like me have bought it here. I wonder if our official dealer have had this ones in stock ever... I think they don`t.
    I thought on buying two units, but started the Leica way more or less at the same time. I find Leicas like stone age tools but equally satisfying.
    Beautiful shot, Philip. I love this look. I`m sure it`ll look even better printed on a barita paper.
  33. Lying in bed last night I thought on this a little more, and then I realised that after the F6 has gone it will mean that for Nikon film shooters, time will have stopped at 2008. No more bodies, no more technology, limited support. We are on our own now.
  34. I am still hoping that Nikon (or somebody else) will bring out a 100% manual camera. Why? Because this is the only field in which digital cannot compete with film, when I want something that can work without batteries. If I look at used cameras market here, I see that used FM, FM2 and even FM3A don't stay on the shelf too long. A mint condition FM3A can sell for more than it was priced new. To me the pattern is clear. Today the film shooter is an amateur photographer, doing it for the joy of it. This kind of user does not need advanced electronic cameras that become obsolete within few years. If I want electronics, I'd go digital. That's where the pros have gone long ago. In order to sell big numbers to amateurs, a film camera needs to be simple, rugged, reliable and reasonably priced to make it affordable as an hobby purchase to a large number of people. The F6 was too much expensive for a lot of people for which photography is just a hobby.
    Next year is the 50th anniversary of the Nikon F, maybe....
  35. Where you guys are reading these news? I tried Grays of Westminster web site and can't see anything about F6 discontinuity. Google search didn't return anything either...
  36. Bogdan
    Ring or email and ask to buy one.
    In fact try and find one in stock anywhere in the UK.
    I doubt you will.
  37. Here the situation is the same. If you want an F6 they will place an order. The only one I have seen in display was in a big camera store and it was the only one they had. No shop will take the risk of keeping a stock of F6, considering the very low request. On the other side, they claim having no problem selling used ones. This reinforces my idea that the price of the F6 is too high for the amateur photographer, i.e. the major user of 35 mm film cameras nowadays.
  38. Hmm....B and H list two F6 on their site, one Nikon F6 USA in stock and another one Imported, the latter is a bit cheaper but it's been always listed as back ordered. Why would be the Imported model back ordered if nobody buy it? I ordered an F6 from them for Christmas, everything seems to be fine...
  39. I knew it would happen. It's disappointing to read. Just a couple of thoughts...
    I never thought I'd "luck" into the purchase of a collectable...and I think the F6 certainly warrants that status. It is my favorite camera body for it's handling, solid feel, and smoothness of operation. It is tough-as-nails, but hidden behind industrial beauty.
    Second, I'm hoping against hope that in order to support it's famous and critically-acclaimed photographic history, Nikon would surprise us all with a new film scanner that updates the CCDs in it's current Coolscan line to ultra low noise CMOS chips in production to let film die-hards continue their chosen hybrid workflow. THAT would be cool.
    In the meantime, I keep collecting bits for my bathroom darkroom, and keep shooting E-6 for projection. For my personal, hobby photography, it's ALL about the process...
  40. I too think it's a great pity if the F6 is discontinued , having worked with the Nikon F series for many years and being a dedicated film shooter myself, at the time the F6 came out I was very surprised Nikon had marketed a pro quality SLR at that time when most pro's were shooting digital, I thought they were crazy, I dont think there will ever be an F 7 particularly in the current economic climate.
  41. When I purchaced my F6 in May 2007 I had a choice of a D200 or the F6. I thought long and hard about it and went back to the store several times to try them out. On one side the D200 offered the instant feedback on the rear panel, no need to buy film and it was being pushed by the shop as a special offer. However the F6 won me over due to the superb viewfinder, wonderful exposure and the knowledge that the sensor (cleaning, pixel problems) would never be an issue. I have never regretted the decision, and in hindsight, I still feel that I made the right choice.
  42. Definitely a sad end to a F series of cameras. I've never used the F6....I own an F5 and love it. It's built like a tank. Metering is superb. No need to upgrade every year to get better quality. New emulsions continue to be deveoped and released.
    Maybe one day I'll find an F6 on the used market and sell off my F5.
  43. Oh well, makes sense they wouldn't construct any more, but there are many thousands out there right now taking wonderful photos. When the F6 came out, people called Nikon crazy in this digital age. The fact that they have apparently sold out just about means that Nikon was right, there is still a strong market for film cameras, enough to justify the F6. The F6 is so well made that one will last a life time.
    My F5 is discoed, but works as well as the day it was brand new. So do my M6s. Matched with my Coolscan 9000, they are my favorite digital system ;)
    Perhaps I should rush out to buy an FM10 ;)
  44. More than for an F6, I think there is a potential market for a 100% mechanical camera like the FM to be sold around 500-600$ and for a "prosumer" AF camera in the 1000 $ range.
    IMHO those are the cameras that might interest the current film shooters. The price tag of the F6 was too high for amateurs while pros have sold their F cameras to move to digital since years now.
  45. B&H still has it for $2k. I don't think that I will buy one as a "collector's item."
    Hasselblad film camera prices are on the floor over at the Bay. The times they are definitely a changin.'
  46. The good news? In the good old single-digit F-series tradition, these things are built to last. To outlast even most of us.

    I expect my F4 to outlast film availability as well.
  47. 2K for an amateur photographer is definitely too much.
  48. Interesting.....a quick check on the bay shows only one slightly used F6 for sale at about $850. There are some for sale on Keh, for about 1/2 the price of new. I wouldn't be surprised to see those prices rise slowly over the years. When the economy improves, collectors and those with fond memories of the Nikon F series may keep the used market alive. The FM3A sells more now than when it was in production. I hope Nikon will provide service for the F6, at least for the next 10 years. That will give me at least a good decade's use of my F6. From now on, I will hold my F6 with a little more loving care. Anyone know of a good camera therapist?
  49. Nikon still shows the F6 as a current product. I don't think it will be dropped for a long time. Nikon knows people still shoot film. Lots of people actually.
  50. The FM3A is a special case. It is the last camera that can work without batteries. Something that digital is not capable of. They are the cameras for people taking it easy and enjoying the process of taking the picture, manually doing all the operations. There is still a demand for them, if you have one for sale, it finds a buyer quicky. A mint FM3A can be sold for a good 20% more than when it was new.
  51. Well, if the fancy electronics in your F6 dies, you can always go get a 50 year old F or Nikkormat and keep shooting.
  52. An F6 would be nice, but I can still repair my FM2N as needed, so I will hang on to it (and my Nikkormats, too).
  53. A lot of you guys want Nikon to continue to make a camera that (obviously) virtually no one is buying. Are you aware of that?
    I wish they still made the Hammond B3, with tone wheels and tubes... but they don't... (that's an electric organ by the way...)
  54. I own one and I think its an absolutely fabulous camera to shoot with. Prices will now go higher on used gear because of the limited supply. I'm running a 20-35mm/2.8 AFD and the combo kicks like no one's business. The F6 is a compact fast shooter and the matrix metering is dead on. Occasionally with a 85mm/1.4 I pair it up with my Leica MP & 35mm/1.4 ASPH. Deadly combo for reliability and results.
    Bon voyage!
  55. Well, if the fancy electronics in your F6 dies, you can always go get a 50 year old F or Nikkormat and keep shooting.​
    Yeah, but if you got any of those fancy "G" lenses fhe F6 works with, then your kinda SOL...
  56. Being a Canon user primarily I use a Canon DSLR and a 1vHS (although I also have a couple of trusty FEs/MD-12s that I dearly love!), but I recognize a great camera when I see one, and the F6 is one such camera. I know it's just a matter of time until the 1v meets the same fate since all of the other Canon film cameras are a thing of history now. While I think my 1vHS is a most awesome camera and an absolute joy to use (it has far more capability than I ever will), I imagine the sentiment is the same for those of you who use the F6. As great as DSLRs have become, it's cameras like the 1v, F5, and F6 that make a lot of us want to keep using film just for the joy of using these great cameras.
  57. I think the demise of the F6 is most likely due to the fact that it was based upon the D2 platform. I think a F7 based on the D3/x platform would be a logical step. Sure Nikon didn't sell as many F6's as say, the F5, but since it was based mostly on the D2's (of which I'm sure they sold many more of) then the R&D was worth it. I think the D3 platform will remain in production for a good while and it should not be too hard to suck out the chip and electronics and make space for a film canister.
    I wonder how many F6's were made?
  58. Mmmmh... considering the fierce competition and the fast turnover of digital stuff, I guess the D3/X platform won't be here that much longer than the D2 had. Maybe even less.
  59. I would like to see an F7 based on the the newest matrix metering and more AF focus points for even faster AF. I should think this would mean minimal expense for Nikon to swap out the components and refresh the design. They use the same systems in the D300 so it must not be that expensive these days.
  60. Those are interesting points, Harvey. The R&D is already spent. But then there is the cost of manufacturing a different line than the digital version of the D3 platform, etc. I assume there is also the added cost of stocking service parts for repair? But then again....it would seem that the cost wouldn't be large to have a film version of the D3. My bet would be no F7, but I would certainly be happy if Nikon continued their film tradition.
  61. Well the way I look at it, we can still buy a used Nikon F made in the early 1960s that has a shutter still in perfectly good working order. F2, F3, F4, F5, and now used F6 bodies too. FM, FM2, etc. Used Nikon 35mm SLR cameras will still be available probably forever into the future (at least the next 100 years). Nikon knows that, and they are competing with the used market. That's probably why they discontinued all the manual focus Nikkor lenses (or most all of them anyway). I have my fathers black Nikon F (with the FTn metered prism and a black plain prism finder) as well as a Nikon FM body in near mint condition that works great. I can shoot film any time I want, but I haven't shot film in many months and don't plan to soon. I still have a few dozen rolls of Kodak slide film in the freezer if I get the urge, but to process it may mean mailing it out somewhere, here in the Seattle area there aren't many places that process E6 anymore... I have so many years of slides to scan (1958-2007) that I don't know if I want to add to the pile!!
  62. They discontinued the MF line because they are more expensive to make (slower and lower volume as well), turned metal barrels vs plastic. I think that the D3 platform has been designed to allow for improvements to the sensor/processing while maintaining the basic body components. The next might be a D4 but the body/shutter being essentially the same. As seen from the D2 to D3, the shutter improved, thus assuring that the D2/F6 wouldn't be around long.
    All fine and dandy, but to working pro's like myself who shoot plenty of film alongside digital, not having a current and supported film body is a bummer.
  63. Those of you saying there would be a market for a new ootally mechanical film camera: There might be a market for a collector's edition that costs $5,000 but that's the camera fondling market--not the camera use market. I don't think some of you yet realize how fast film phtography is disappearing.
  64. The story continues and you draw your own conclusions.
    Firstly I have sold my second new F6 for a little more than I paid for it. I couldn't afford it anyway!
    And I have a customer that wants to buy my first one again for a little more than I paid for it.
    None anywhere in the UK so I have just ordered one from B&H in the USA who have "limited " live stock.
    I have spoken to several dealers here and get slightly different stories. Microglobe say they have stopped manufacture.
    Kingsley Photograpic could get one if fully paid for and it would take two months. The four others were split three said no manufature and one "..they make a few in batches now and then but the next batch will be the last.
    Nikon UK have 8 arriving "end of January perhaps" and they are sold. Amazon UK are taking orders on a 2-5 week delivery and I suspect they are the one who has the 8 ordered ones.
    All good fun and I finish up with a US serial number. So it's gone from Japan to the States to it's new home in the UK.
    Now I am less poor and happy knowing that film is really best (IGNORE this comment!)
    I assume B & H are OK. They were good on the phone just now and seem to be a known company.
  65. I think that some of you yet to realize how many are still actively using *a lot* of film, and will continue to do so.
  66. I don't think some of you yet realize how fast film phtography is disappearing. What? You mean there is something other than film?
  67. Sure, painting. But photography will probably kill that ;)
  68. most of the F6 I see on sale are in the 5000 number range (first models). Cameras were first issued in 2004. Mine is 21,xxx number. I have no idea annual production rates. I wanted one for the past couple years but never saw them drop below $1700-1800. Then I saw this one on the big board from a reputable seller, $1100 mint-, boom out came the plastic fast.
    After shooting Leica glass for more than a dozen years it was challenging to get the right glass for my F6. What to buy? A buddy turned me on to a 20-35mm/2.8 AFD and after researching various options I purchased my first AF lens (20-35mm) and I aint looking back.
    How/why do I like it? Its blazing fast, solid, and compact. As a discreet shooter compactness is important to me, which is why I love my Leicas and Makina. There is something surreal when I shoot Kodachromes matrix metered.
    The more I work with the F6 the more remarkable I find it.
  69. There might be a market for a collector's edition that costs $5,000 but that's the camera fondling market--not the camera use market. I don't think some of you yet realize how fast film phtography is disappearing.
    I don't agree with this sentence. Why? Because I see that Nikon manual bodies are in high demand, they really evaporate on the market. If there is a lot of people looking for mint used FM, FM2, FM3A, FA, FE, FE2, ... it is because they are no longer available new. IMHO there is room for a well made, 500$ fully mechanical camera with no bells and no whistles.
  70. Yeah Paul, that F6 with the 20-35mm zoom would be so from the future, what was Dreamed about back in 1984. I'm still thinking that a small run, based on D3, pro film body will still be made at Nikon. There are too many pro's who Still Shoot Film. Not to mention all of those lenses out there.
  71. Several of you claim that there are too many pros who shoot film, or that there is a place for a lower-priced film camera than the F6 or ______________(fill in the blank). I understand and appreciate your perspective... but...
    I wonder who would have the best idea of how many F6s are actually selling. Hmmmm... Perhaps Nikon?
    In short, Nikon is telling us based on reality (not asking us based on what we want) that the market for this camera is essentially over.
  72. Peter,

    I still fail to understand that there is no demand for an item that is back ordered for months and months... I signed up for the cheaper body but without much luck so I decided to pay extra money and get whatever is available at this moment. BH might soon run out of stock for F6, we'll see what happen next... Apart of the current topic here on photonet there is no other sources in the Internet to confirm F6 discontinuity at this point. Google returned couples of records that seems to be a relay of photonet post and nothing else.
  73. Which basically I agree. I am a film shooter, perfectly happy of its lower quality and many shortcomings. About two years ago, when my N90X gave up, I would be more than pleased to buy another AF film camera, but 2000 $ was out of the question. I ended purchasing a used F100 and a used N80. I am not a pro (I mean I don't take pictures for business) and I cannot justify spending so much. My budget for the N90X replacement was 1000$, and I could get the two above for half that money. I believe I am not the only one in this situation, most film shooters today are not doing it for business and, as I said many times, only a few hobbists can justify 2000$ for a new camera.
  74. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Bogdan, "back ordered" can mean either too much demand or no supply. In this case apparently it is the latter.
    There are certainly some people who still shoot film, but shooting film is not the same thing as needing an F6. Nikon made film SLRs for almost half a century and there are a lot of existing SLRs out there (as I said, there are 4 of them doing absolutely nothing in my house), not to mention many many other brands. The F6 has been out since 2004. Whoever really wants one already has plenty of opportunities to buy one in the lsat 4 years.
    B&H still has new F6's in stock, but neither Adorama nor Amazon carries it any more. Perhaps I would correct what I said earlier: if you want one new, you'd better get it soon: http://www.amazon.com/NIKON-35mm-Fi...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1229705063&sr=1-2
  75. Nikon brass projected a number for F6 units they thought they could manufacture and sell and hit a suitable profit margin, and it (apparently) has taken this long. They have met their goals, completed their mission, and are moving on. If there is obvious market demand, and Nikon projects that it can make a profit, they may at some point retool the D3 into the F7. But with so many perfectly good film bodies in the used market, they probably can't produce a pro-quality camera at a price point that would be profitable. Leica is having the same problem. And how could an F7 be significantly better than what is available, and still be profitable?
    It's not that there is no demand at all for film, but that it has certainly decreased, and film bodies are (were) made to last a lifetime. The market is saturated. Digital bodies apparently are made to last maybe 5 years, and still has a way to go in improvements. That turnover is profitable.
    That's an unfortunate problem with the economy - quality isn't always profitable. Stuff that goes to a landfill and has to be replaced is. Look at that gum commercial, where the company has to force people to spit out their long-lasting gum in order to consume more.
    Anything of quality becomes art. But art is a hard way to make a living.
  76. Supply problem? If you want one, you can buy one. In stock at B&H. Today.
    Why anyone would pay 2 grand for a new film camera in 2008 is beyond me, but if you want it there it is.
  77. Shun,
    Yeah you might be right, or it might be a bit of both... Nikon Coolscan 9000ED is another good example of Nikon item with a similar situation although the scanner eventually become available from time to time on B&H web listing... Interesting to notice the F6 is listed back ordered while Coolscan is Out of stock, not sure what makes the difference... anyway, indeed, not very good signs for film guys...
  78. No, considering that also Leica is quitting film.
  79. Lets all remember that so far, we only have hearsay evidence that the F6 has been discontinued. I suppose if the shutter, focus, and metering system of the F6 can no longer be shared with its digital cousins, then it would make sense to discontinue it if sales are low. We can still hope that Nikon will modify the body of the D3 to be a film camera, thereby keeping alive the Nikon film tradition. Nikon knows that each film platform it sells also translates into some amount of lens sales, and that a Nikon film buyer will (or is) probably someday in the future also be a Nikon digital buyer.
    Hey, I know a game we can play. Lets pretend we are in the Leica forum, and give out our serial numbers and our date of purchase. Mine is 0026853, purchased Feb 2007.
  80. It's when film quits film that there's truly a problem.
    Film equipment has never been better, cheaper, and more obtainable for all.
    My used truck is 20 years old, but I gas it up every week.
  81. I'll play Benny :) My camera matches my tie.
  82. It is pretty simple. If enough people were buying NEW F6s then Nikon will keep making them. End of story. The same is true with film. If enough people are buying it, then companies will keep making it. The question is, how much better can things get and still remain profitable? How much better can you get than an F6 in terms of build and picture quality as well as erganomics? It isn't really clear. It is not the same as digital where the upgrade path is so easy to see.
    For instance, I just wanted to upgrade my N75 to something more advanced, something that I could adjust the iso, get better metering, and meter with manual focus lenses. I looked at both the F100 and the F6 as options. I could not convince myself (as many obviously can't) that for 4 times the price, a used F6 would be that much better than a used F100 for my needs. If Nikon can't convince enough people that a new F6 will drastically improve their photos or their experience photographing than any other used camera that is much cheaper, then they are in a pickle. I'm really tied to the medium. They can't convince me that for the price, a roll of TriX on my F100 will be inferior to the same roll on the F6.
    Digital is different. The differences in the image quality (in difficult shooting situations) of the D40, D300 and D3 are pretty obvious to many. And if I were on the market for a dSLR I probably wouldn't even look at the used (3+ year old) cameras. They are all old news, and the new cameras will almost assuredly be obviously better in image quality. Thus Nikon, and other camera manufacturers will sell more NEW cameras and cause them to release more NEW cameras.
    People say, there are so many people shooting film. And they are, they just aren't using NEW cameras
  83. Your typical amature camera body has 150,000 'clicks' - all for whatever the amount they sell. A roll of 36 exp film costs $7 and prcessing $8 for a total of $15 per roll. Do the math. Digital is soooo much cheaper than film - without the hassles - bent negatives, old chems, scratches, etc.... and all with superior results.
    film is dead Fred and with good reason.
    Sorry, but I like new technolgy. As someone here once asked , How many of you are still shooting wet glass plates?
  84. I still use wet glass plates, here's an 11x14 for a book I'm getting paid to do :D
    I use images - film, digital, glass, whatever.
    I have worn out digital cameras for use, and embrace the technology. It makes me money. So does film. I get shots with my Bessa and VC 15mm that are *impossible* with digital, because it doesn't exist, yet if ever.
  85. Wow, Steve. Compliments!
    Sam, I don't believe digital is so cheaper than film, simply the money is spent in equipment (cameras, lenses, computers, software, batteries, memory cards, storage systems) rather than in film. Unless you are the kind of person that shoots 10000+ pictures per year. In a typical year I shoot between 50 and 100 rolls of slide film. Film and processing here is about 10$. That's 1000$ per year. If I buy a D3H it's 8000$. Will the camera give me 8 years of service? Nah. Guess 2-3 years from now I'd sell for 1000 and buy a brand new D4. My newest film camera is 5 years old and my oldest is from 1960. The fact is that with film you think two times before pressing the shutter (pictures = money) and you pay more attention to what you do than with digital (pictures = "free").
  86. Hi :)
    I should make it clear this photo was taken in the 1880s, not by me ;) The detail is amazing. However, we could all still make and expose 11x14 glass plates (www.bostick-sullivan.com), maybe slightly more tedious than adjusting RAW files ;) I bet glass plate users complained about film sheets, too.
    I just love all of the technology that came together to put this image in a book and on the Web. Could the photographer ever imagine? The march of technology is wonderful, and photography is perhaps the most democratic art form there is, accessible to everyone, including those who can't swing the $8000 for the latest and greatest. Living in the arid Southwest, I love how digital processing saves the water used in a darkroom. I love how rangefinders fit in my pocket with 100 degrees of view. I chose to think that no part of photography "dies," but that it's ever expanding. How wonderful for all photographers - film, digital and hybrid :D We have a wonderful, diverse community here, and I hope everyone is always able to purse their medium of choice, and I wish everyone well in doing it :D
  87. Steve, may I add something. I also wish people are always able to purse their medium of choice, but at the same time I also wish this endless debate about the superiority of one medium versus the other (which is cheaper, which is better, which is sharper, ...) come to an end. At the end what matters are the pictures, and I would not feel comfortable in taking a picture with a medium I don't like just because somebody keeps telling me it is cheaper or it has a better quality. Shall we have to torn the above image into pieces because it was made with an obsolete medium? I believe each of us has to choose the medium that his best for him, the one that best suits his style, or even the one that fits better a specific assignment. It's like a pair of glasses. I want the ones that make me see best, not the one that somebody else handles me, stating that, since they are the best ones for him, they must be the best ones for me too.
  88. Hear, hear :D
  89. Do you think Nikon can make a better camera that the F6 or the F5 ? And even if they could, how much would it improve the final photos?
    I think there are enough used/new film cameras out there for people that appreciate the differences between film and digital, a Nikon f5 fell almost 400$ in the last year and it is available in like new condition for about 645...so it's cheaper that a d60 kit.
    Still...this is the end of long era of Nikon/film photography.
  90. Shun, Since you have said you have no sentimental/emotional tie to your "tools" and since " there are 4 of them doing absolutely nothing in my house" I propose you conduct a raffle/drawing/contest/whatever...some kind of mechanism to give them away to film shooting Nikon P.netters.
  91. Nikon may not have broken even with the F6; they would still make it it it sold well. T
    The concept of return on investment is foreign to the majority of Photo.net vistors
    since may folks do not work in a business that creats, makes and sells an actual product.
    Thus there are often weird answers where folks want to flush money down the drain. In like manner your wife or neighbor might recommend you gold plate your muffler bearings
    Nikon could always make a F7, F8 and go broke too; or maybe folks could help with money as a loan or gift if folks think that its a super idea that woule make GOBS of cash flow; ie gold bars popping out the ground like weeds in the spring.
  92. Holy crap! They make muffler bearings? I didn't know...I better get some...
  93. I'm sure some day Nikon will stop making film cameras and the F6.
    Until then you have to take Nikon's official word. My more immediate concern
    is for how long I can get my Velvia developed.
  94. Yes! It is about the images created. And, in photography, the tools are a needed part of the image making process. I just know that somewhere, some shooter is going to need a tool to shoot film. Sure, you can get an F5 or F100, but although built strong, they don't last forever. Just having the *potential* of buying a new, supported pro body was reassuring. So I'll hope for the F7. Hey, they also said that having a Leica rangfinder with auto-exposure would never happen, and look, M7.
  95. Lotta talk about which medium is cheaper...curious way to do your art, no? I dont shoot either film or digi because one is "cheaper" over the other. I choose the tech based on my goals for the final product. If your simply looking at the "cheaper-cheaper" dichotomy then your missing the point IMO.
    If your an amateur, the "cheap-cheaper" argument is moot because you dont make money with your gear anyway. Thus, no matter what gear you buy you lose money. And, if your pro, the argument doesnt function either because there are other criteria driving the purchases -- such as quick-turnaround, qualitatitive factors, and client demands.
    "Nikon could always make a F7, F8 and go broke too." Not nescessarily. Sometimes companies will take loses on certain products in order to claim a full product line. Besides, Nikon has a big product line to support profitability and the F6 wasnt produced in large numbers. For all we know Nikon had vacant time on the assembly line and decided to produce a few film cameras for the fun of it. Nikon RF cameras arent big sellers, yet Nikon makes them too! Go figure..
  96. As I stated above, since we know the F6 and D2 series shared a lot, the return on investment was most likely achieved already. Probably the profit was higher compared to the D2 series, no sensors and less chips, same body/AF/Shutter.
  97. Here is an idea. We could just keep on taking pictures, and see if there is an F7 in 2009.
  98. Sad, perhaps, but fundamentally logical
    Beside the very convincing expalantion from Shun about parts compatibility between the F6 and the now defunct D2, there is a very important fact which justifies the choice of Nikon to discontinue the F6 : Now pros and advanced amateurs have full format (FX) DSLR's at hand ! ...
    All things considered, the discontinuation of the FM3A was far more dammaging for those of us who want to continue using films. In many ways, this mostly mechanical camera was far more representative of the F bodies era (F, F2, F3) than the electronic saturated F4, F5 and F6, whatever the quality of these bodies. It was also a body from which more years of serviceability could be expected. Just because any really proficient independent repair service will probably able to fix far longer than any body requiring long discontinued integrated circuits to be replaced.
    I have still an F2 DP-1 with an MD-2 motor and the very rare DS-1 auto-aperture unit. it needs some fixes (the DP-1 requires to have its shutter speed barrel contact cleaned, the DS-1 is in need of a new battery and I'd wish to be able to find a pari of battery holders for the MD-2) and a bunch of F lenses - most of them still no converted to Ai... For the present time, I'm saving for a D700 and I still have not decided if after fixing the F2 gear I'll sell it (probably to a collector) or keep it. But it is likely I'll sell it and "Ai" those lenses I intent to use on the D 700 as I need to have the best DSLR gear I can afford and I currently use my son's Canon DSLR (a 30D) far more than any other film gear I have. The only certain survivors of my long film user story will be a nice Foca (two star model) and my splendid Rolleiflex F with an 80mm Planar F/2.8. The reason is simple, those are, despite the most recent one dates back to the 60's, there will always be someone to repair them as long as the film will be available : they are truly all mechanical beasts.
    But I won't buy or keep any film camera from the all electronic era today, whatever its intrinsic qualities. Moreover a Japanese camera which I know will have available parts only for 10 years after its official discontinuation. I don't need an expensive paperweight ! ...
    In the present state of world economy, I have the feeling film will be discontinued sooner than many of us expected. The usual forecast of having film price on a cosntant rise but film still available for a long time seems to me more and more improbable. Fewer people will be ready to afford pricey film for the only sake of their pleasure and debatable aesthetic considerations.
    "Modern" panchromatic film on a flexible support, moreover with the complication of regular perforations like the 35mm one are well beyond the capabilities of an individual self-production on the contrary to wet glass plates ! ... These are industrial products and the fact is the manufacturers will consider the profit they can make before the interest of a minority of individuals.
    Film market, particularily small format film market is dwindling... And one can anticipate with the constant price reduction and quality increase of medium format digital backs MF gear price will probably reach the levels once current for this kind of gear in film times within a few years.
    It seems we are living in a strange world, probably because while technology is developing at a fast pace, most people have less money than they used to have to spend for hobbies (particularly when compared to the situation in the 60's and the 70's). So people are more reluctant to part with "old" technology.
    But let's consider what happened many times before in photography : how many people resisted the appearance of wet glass plates and refused to switch to dry ones and then from glass plates to film as we know it ? How many people didn't acknowledged the advantage of smaller formats for the same final image quality with the progress of emulsions ? What is so different with the switch from analogue photography to digital ? The last generation of digital small format DSLR's in full 24x36 format have simply reached a point there is no "objective" advantage in keeping film technology. This is a FACT. Now, the engineers are striving to give us photographic machines which will dump anything produced during film era in terms of image quality and general performance. For a part, namely high ISO performance they have already succeeded in so doing. For most people, both amateurs and professionals, the output if far more important than the tool. And the digital tool is at all level of requirement far easier to use with digital than with film. It is also cheaper to use.
    The obsolescence of a digital camera is still much faster than the one of a film camera. But this will certainly be corrected in the years to come as - like for all technologies limited in perception by our "poor" human senses - improvements which will be actually perceptible will be far slower and less important on the practical side. Of course you can for example anticipate the future D4 will probably give you more pixels without losing the D3 present high ISO performance, but when the threshold of the present D3X will be reached with the D3 high ISO performance, who will really need (unless it has to deal with very specialized situations) more from a small format camera ?
    In fact, digital photography is not so far to reach its maturity...
    As sad as it can be resented by many film adepts, Nikon has simply decided to proceed logically.
    And despite the opinion of some here, I think the days of semi-professionnal DX format camera are numbered too... I won't be surprised if there will be no sucessor to the present D 300, moreover when the FX cameras all authorize the use of DX lens (though at a very reduced pixel count)... But when the pixel density of the area covered in DX by an FX camera will reach the present D300 one on this area (and IMHO we are not far from it), I doubt Nikon will bother to issue semi-pro camera in DX format and I even predict when the FX sensors will reach a price compatible to maintain the present price level of consumer grade DSLR's, all DX sensor and the DX lens range will be discontinued on the ground of "commonalty". At this point, it is all too probable all Nikon cameras will use the same sensor (just as all of the film ones were able to use any film in the past) and the differences will show on other grounds like they used to in film times.
    This is called progress and was ever so... Like aviation buffs can mourn the piston engined biplanes of yesterday, film cameras are bound to become things of the past.
    I think looking back to the history of photography should lead to more promising designs in digital times when it goes to camera concepts (like small format rangefinder cameras or TLR's like a Rolleiflex) than mourning the ineluctable demise of film and film cameras. But you are fully entitled to disagree of course...
  99. These sort of threads always end up about digital vs. film, and that film is dead. I remember reading posts from 5 years ago about how film was dead. I suppose I'll be reading the same sort of posts 5 years from now. There are many niche markets that keep on surviving. Some audiophiles listen to their music using LP records on turntables, with tube preamps and amps. Some Hams still build tube sets to send and receive Morse Code. The list goes on.
  100. We'll see. For the moment I am sticking to film, because it's more expensive, lower quality, more troubles, ... you name it. But for me it is a lot more fun than digital. I don't know how long will it take before film will die. If my cameras die I might be able to find good used ones to replace them, considering that now nobody makes them new anymore. If film will disappear or labs in my area will close, well, then I will take a decision. Maybe I will move to digital, maybe I will put all my photo equipment in a big plastic bag and dump it into the nearest trash bin. Putting the word end to my hobby. Who knows? For the moment I am still enjoying taking pictures the way I like. An the way I have fun doing.
    I completely understand the rationale behind Nikon decision to drop the F6. There is no profitable market for a film camera anymore. Film cameras are companions of many years. People used to buy a camera anc keep using it for at least 10 years, if not for a lifetime. After the initial purchase, the money was spent in consumables (film and developing). Now camera manufacturers are turning cameras into consumables, in ten years you are expected to go trough at least 3 DSRL. And when the quality will reach a steady state and the new model will not be such a great improvement over the previous, they will find something else, like with handy phones, in order to have people trashing the old for the new. For a camera manufacturer this is a far more profitable business than to sell a camera built to last.
  101. I still contend that using the D3 as a platform Nikon *would make money* with an F7, and that in fact they did with the F6. Despite the undeniable fact that most of the ever growing pool of new shooters are choosing Dgital, there still is a demand for current technology film cameras. Argue it all you like, People Still Use Film. But hey, I remember the argument that the F3 wasn't a Real Nikon since it needed a Battery. Long live the F2!
  102. Oh, and I've actually found that the electronics are some of the most stable and long lasting components, its the cracked plastic that will end a camera's life, that and no spare parts.
  103. It depends. I agree that simple, discrete, electronics is most reliable than expected. LCD panels that were rated for 10 years life are still good after 20+ years. But on the other side increasing complexity means increasing failure risk. The old saying "what is not there doesn't break" holds true and explains why lenses outlast cameras. It takes nothing to destroy an electronic camera. I fried a N70 installing a wrong non-Nikon flash and a friend of mine spent big bucks to fix a D2 because of a defective memory card.
  104. Even if Nikon only guarentees factory repairs for ten years, ten years is a long time. Send it in nine years for CLA and your good to go for another ten. Anyway, most of us dont keep a cam for ten years, unless its a Leica;-)

    Here and Now: The F6 is a fabulous platform to shoot some favorite films such as K64, HP5, and Portra 160NC. It doesn't simply "look" like film, it IS film.
  105. I learned "real" photography several years ago using my husband's Ftn from the 1970's. That's the one with the little needle in the finder that estimates the exposure for you. I took out books from the library, read stuff on-line, took many awful pictures - you know, you finally get the pictures back and they are black or all white or out of focus. But I finally got the knack and took some of my very favorite pictures. I loved that camera. Due to illness, I missed a couple of years. When I picked it up again, the finder that shows you the exposure wasn't working. Should I buy a used 30-year-old finder that works? How long would it work? Would I ever understand how to use an exposure meter to use the camera in full manual mode? Probably not. So I let it go.
    Last summer I bought a G9 compact. It is fun for sure, but I so miss the Ftn. The Velvia slide film pictures were something special. I think about taking some other film camera up now, thinking...
    thanks for the memories
  106. Where does this come from? This is the only place I've seen this. Searches on Google & Ask return nothing about the demise of the F6. A few years back Nikon & Canon both completely discontinued the consumer based film cameras. The pro lines were kept in production. I suspect the start of this thread may be bogus
  107. Rarely does the cds cell die in a camera; the meter is declared "dead" since it didnt work the next time it was tried. What happens is the batteries die; or the contacts get corroded. Another failure is the sliding resistor(s) have been in the same place for a decade and it gets some crud growing on the sliding contact.
    In junkers bought from ebay advertised as having bad meters most all can be fixed by a new battery, or cleaning the contacts; or just rotating the shutter speed knobs and f stop rings to clean off the crud on the sliding resistors. The same thing happens with an old TV or radio' the volume control often gets wonky if it sits in one place for along time.

    In self powered meters like the ancient early 1960's meter heads and the Retina IIIc; an owner will often place the unit in a sock drawer for a decade and the meter work a decade later. When the unit is taken apart and the cell touched up with an eraser on its backside; most will all work fine.
    In repairs the general peanut gallery has it in their minds that the cells dies off like flys; when its just simple corrosion. Having a tad of corrosion will make the meter read about OK in low light and more "off" in error in sunlight; sicne one has know an added resistor in the circuit; ie the corrosion. In this case too the peanut gallery assumes the "cell is bad" or even the meter. Many self powered cells like my GE 1940's unit work well; they like a flashlight from 1940's do not work as well or at all if there is corrsion; ie one "invests" in a pencil eraser to fix the issue.
    There are many nice used Nikon F, F2, F3, F4, F5 and F6's available; and even new Nikon F6's
    One could buy a new Nikon F even in the the late 1970's as new old stock.
    One will be able to buy a working Nikon F series body after we are all dead and gone; folks are abandoning them; there is a surplus of them.
    Here I bought a nice used Nikon F2 with working meter and a 45mm F2.8 GN for 150 bucks on ebay; its looks almost never even used; thus one might say the body with prism was worth 110 and the lens 40 bucks less than a maker could build a new one for.
    For those who still shoot film there are zillions of fine 35mm bodies already out there in the used market, most with little usage.
    Its really not whether Nikon could build a F7; it whether its an INSANE stupid business move that probably would not pan out; ie the move that wastes money; ie flushes cash down the toilet. In like manner Nikon could build BC-7 bulb flash units too; or build enlarging lenses again; or a 105mm F4 preset lens.
    Just because a company can create a new product doesnt mean its a rational sane business project.
    Embarking on insane projects is the hallmark of wreckless business behavior.
    Its typically done by folks who are dumb; or have no ties to the projects failure or success. Thus if creating a new F7 was tied to ones own 401k; house and job a sane person may not want to create a product thats just a turd in punchbowl to others. Companys often do NOT create a new product for the fun of it; unless its filled with golden boys whos dad owns the business; ie immune from being fired or laid off.
    Companys need products to "pan out" as a success; to provide cash flow to grow; to pay wages; to survive.
    If the pipeline of unsold Nikon F6's is full then a rational manager will halt the Nikon F6's line to burn off inventory.
    If the pipeline of unsold Nikon F's is full the IRRATIONAL manager will still make them; or embark on a F7 project to further burn cash.
    Whether Nikon still makes another F6 depends on sales; ie actual sales.
  108. The "confusion" many of you have here is that optical items are not always made in a "so many widgets per week basis; they are often made in "batches" for slow moving items.
    Unless one works for Nikon one really is just "guessing" when the last ever F6 was made or whether the tooling is "on hold" waiting to see if another "batch/run" is required. If the inventory pipe is bloaded then a rational manager doesnt build another batch of F6's.
    The same thing is/was done with enlarging lenses; they were made in batches; lens making and coating lines of specialty slow moving items like super telephotos are also batched too; its easier to build and test 2 dozen units at once then spread the build/test over many months.
    From a marketing viewpoint its better to ''say the widget is still in production'' to get the peanut gallery to buy the impacted bloaded inventory; even if the last batch was made yesterday; or Aug 2008; or Aug 2005; or whatever.
    IN most folks minds the batch process is hard to understand; and thus they seek a black and white answer to a grey concept of what is "production".
    In P&S bodies and popular high volume dlsr's and "kit zooms" production is more like the auto industries line folks have stuck in their brains; as to what "production" is.
    In many consumer items production could have stopped long ago and the items still are sold new; its just the pipeline is impacted with poop; new-old-stock were a marketing "error" was made.
    Thus Eastman Kodak still had NEW slr lenses in the 1976 Kodak Pro Photographic catalog for their 1960's 35mm Retina slr's; and I had a few years ago new slide rule indicators in the box that were made in the 1960's.
    Here I have come to the conclusion that most folks on photo.net do NOT understand how an actual business that makes a consumer item have to be run; since the multitude of irrational statements are emitted. The "concept" of making a profit is foreign too; or actually doing work; or doing homework to see if a project makes any sense.
    Its really NOT rocket science; its as basic as running a lemonaid stand. One might make more lemonaid in July than today in the cold midwest.
    The "concept" of what sells and what doesnt is ancient; its as old as man. Items that are rotten; not needed, do not sell as well as what is fresh and is needed. One "learns" not to buy or make items that do not sell; or one dies off; the bad DNA doesnt get passed on. With government and golden boy's their is no feedback loops so the marketing errors tend to be passed on
  109. Kelly,
    Did you see "Behind the scenes" interview with Mr. Ikeno, he is the gentleman behind F6... Have a look , it's a nice reading....
  110. Thanks for the interview link!
    I don't think Nikon gets enough credit for their F series of cameras. I don't currently own an F6, but it's a remarkable camera... everything that Mr. Ikeno talks about regarding feel, vibration-dampening and sound-dampening, is very evident when you press that shutter release for the first time. An all-time great camera, and likely the height of 35mm photography.
    I use an F4s regularly and each time I use it, I marvel at the engineering. It feels and looks great and everything is where you expect it to be. I don't think I could ever part with that camera... I enjoy it too much.
  111. Hmm, Kelly perhaps a bit of Insane Nikon history is needed for review. Remember the revived S3 and SP rangefinder? Completely INSANE! Yet, it was still made. And sold. Sure, not very well, but it was done.
    With the D3/x as a production base (and cash cow) an F7 as a viable, profit making camera release is totally do-able. Not that insane really. Besides, Nikon is well balanced in other optics/manufacturing areas, and if 75-85% of an F7 is built from the D3 line (with its fully realized profit margin, they've sold 6 million DIgital SLRs in 2007 alone!) then even as a small run, high price (and profit, those F series have always been sold new for $$) the F7 is still viable. Even if they only made 5,000 of them, over 5 years. it would still make a profit, provide an F series film body and allow Nikon to maintain their image/brand.
    I have no 'confusion' nor 'illusions'. The 'top of the line' exists, most often percieved as merely a image maker/ brand supporter, the Joke is that they have the largest profit margins. Ferrari and Fiat! BMW and the M5 with a V10. BMW spend like 100 million in F1 in creating their highpowered V10 engine, then dropped it into the M5 (and M6), added 50,000 to the base price of the 5 series, and then sold 20,000 of them in the first 3 years, and are still making them. They've made back their initial racing investment (well over!) and have the image supporting 'top of the line'.
    Even if they shouldn't, they can and I think they will. Everyone was surprised at the F6, I won't be with an F7.
  112. Thanks for the link, Bogdan. Reading all these threads only serves to make me appreciate my F6 even more. Recently, SilverFast now provides IT targets for Kodachrome. I think I'll order some Kodachrome and shoot with my F6. How retro!
  113. Christiaan; the "revived S3 and SP rangefinder" a few years was aimed at the collectors market; when rangefinders had an uptick in sales; a retro resurgence;
    the Nikon F series has always been marketed as a pro camera.
    The S3 and SP are of course a pro camera too; but the revived versions are basically for collectors more than a real pro using them day to day.
    Leica also made Leica Thread mount lenses a few years back with insane prices; I bought a 50mm F2 Summicron in LTM for filming in 16mm and also for some Bessa R usage; and Zorki usage too. Mine will not fetch a collectors pricing today; mine has be used and has some wear marks.
    Here I got a used Nikon F in 1962 and have owned them plus Nikon F2's; I have used a F3 sometimes too; once a F4 too.
    Nikon would have to ask what is really a F7 going to do; that a F thru F6 doesnt; ie will then make custom stuff that only a F7 can use and folks will freely buy a lens lens variant; focus screen; eyecup; bra, never ready case; do dad that just fits a F7.
    Here I still use a 8.5cm F2; a 13.5cm F3.5; a 10.5 cm F2.5; a 5cm F2 Nikkors in LTM on a Epson RD-1/s digital; the 8.5cm is about 60 years old. The filter of the 10.5cm F2.5 LTM is 52mm; its the same as my several Nikon 105mm lens; except my 105mm F4 Preset-T lens. The reason many of us bought Nikon F's in the early 1960's was we used Exakta; we like a big system of lenses; we liked the BIG Nikon F bayonet of 1959; we liked the N-F adapters to use RF lenses on the Nikon F; the microscope adapters; the commitment to the F mount.

    The real issue of course is whether one could magically say your 5000 units over 5 years for a Nikon F7 would be saleable at a profit in a declining film arena. A reconditioned Nikon F6 goes for 1159 on Ebay as a buy it now; often the few sales that complete are just above a grand; for a camera with a 90 day warranty.

    Most pros with a schedule have long gone to digital; thus would the Walmart C41/ Dwanyes Kodachromers/ or home tri-xers really buy 5000 F7 units? Thats the HUGE unknown; its like General Motors estimating if they drop a F6 truck that get 8 MPG and release a new COMPELETELY NEW F7 truck in 2009 to replace the old F6.
    The Nikon F was made from 1959 to about 1973; thats 14 years

    The Nikon F5 was made from 1996 to 2004; ie about 8 years

    If the Nikon F6 was such a success; why are rumors abit its death after only FOUR years of being released. .' it doesnt even have a removeable prism anymore.
    Back in 2006 a rumor spread that that F6 was going to be discontinued too
  114. Well, here we are, BH got one last F6 piece, I bet won't be there tomorrow...
  115. At the end of the story, we come to the basic point for a company. How many of the people who say "I wish that ACME Inc. would make product XYZ" actually say "If company ACME Inc. will make product XYZ I shall buy two of them". I wish Nikon will make a F7 as a sign of commitment to film. But I'm never going to spend 2000 dollars on a new film camera, no matter how good it might be. I will for sure be going to spend 500$ for a new replacement of my old FM2 (which has many miles on her shoulder) and if they make a new F100 for less than 1000$, I will be trading in my F100 and buy one of them.
  116. Bogdan
    Yes. And the one before that's on the way to me in the UK - all gone here.
    Good old B&H.
  117. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Folks, I am afraid that this thread has outlived its usefulness. Unfortunately, this type of threads tend to drift into the all-too-common film vs. digital debates. At least in my opinion, there are simply way too many of those totally useless threads here in photo.net as well as other forums elsewhere.
    To those who have bought F6 cameras, congratulations on having arguably one of the very best 35mm SLR every made.
    May I suggest that you spend your time taking more pictures and improving your photo skills, using whatever medium you prefer (film or digital), whatever format you prefer (4x5, 6x6, 35mm film, FX, DX ...) and whatever brand of camera you like. To me, it sure beats wasting our time on those threads.

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