External flash battery packs - compatibility of power cords

Hi, I'm getting a JJC BP battery pack (8 AA batteries) for Nikon. I would like to use it on my old Sunpak 36DX flash with the 2-pin (male) external power plug. JJC give connector cords for Nikon, Canon, Sony, but not for the 2-pin Sunpak (which is also, apparently, on the Hasselblad D-Flash 40). My question is: would any of the older available power cords with the 2-pin (female) terminal from Quantum Turbo, Lumedyne, or Paramount (generally with the notation CS4) be connectible to the JJC connector? There is also an adaptor that converts the 2-pin plug to 3-pin on the Sunpak flash; do you think the JJC 3-pin connector cord for one of the other makes (say Canon or Nikon) would fit onto it?

 

Does anyone know whether the JJC racks up the voltage to 330V or something before feeding it to the power inlet, which is meant for the power from the Sunpak AD-27 mains adaptor unit (whose output is labeled DC 175V 20mA).

 

On a general note, is there some site where we can get specific information on these and other proprietary connectors (like the various Sunpak and Godox battery packs), and their inter-connectivity?

 

Many thanks!

The Quantum Turbo will connect to both the Nikon and Sunpack, with just a cable change, so voltage wise, I think they are similar.

BUT, I do not know what that 5 pin DIN plug is telling the pack. There is a chance that the plug is telling the pack what voltage to put out.

But the Turbo is also charged from the same jack, so 2 pins might be to charge and 2 pins to power the flash.

 

If the pack end of the cable is the same 5-pin DIN plug as the Quantum, it might be as simple as using a Quantum cable.

 

To me, the cleanest option is to get a Quantum Turbo or Lumedyne Megaclycler, and their cables for your flash. Then you know it will work.

Older Turbos can be recelled and brought back to life. I did that with mine, and now that my battery has died, I will do it again.

I am also planning to recell one of my dead Lumedyne packs.

Many thanks. I read somewhere that the JJC plug looks like a Quantum plug, and will even fit a Quantum cable, but the pins give different information... so not advvisable to try connecting them!

I assume that 3-pin Canon connector cannot be put into the 3-pin socket of a Sunpak?

Most flashes - excluding old Metzes - have 350 volt capacitors inside, and this is the (maximum) voltage they take from an external HV supply. It's also the voltage present on the P-C trigger plug in many cases, so beware plugging pre 1990s flashes into a digital camera.

 

The Sunpak 3600, 4500 and similar hammerheads take a simple 350v DC supply with no feedback from the flash to the power pack. All the voltage regulation should be done by the power pack. The polarity is important though. So be sure to check the positive/negative polarity before connecting any adapter cable.

 

"I assume that 3-pin Canon connector cannot be put into the 3-pin socket of a Sunpak?"

 

Canon, Nikon and maybe others, use a third pin to turn the power pack inverter on/off and to operate an indicator lamp on the PP. That's all it does as far as I can tell. Measuring the output of Nikon and Canon HV PPs shows no more than 320 to 350 volts coming out of them when disconnected from the flash. I would say they're safe to connect to a Sunpak*, but it would be entirely at your own risk!

 

*After checking polarity of course.

Edited May 12, 2019 by rodeo_joe|1

Many thanks Rodeo_joe. You wouldn't know of any technical source for these specifications?

You wouldn't know of any technical source for these specifications?

I've had quite a few old flashes apart, and there are repair manuals for some of them online; complete with circuit diagrams and component values.

 

Give or take a few volts and methods of quenching the flash, the circuitry is all pretty standard stuff. It gets a bit more complex after TTL and LCD displays, CPU control etc. are introduced, but the basic flash charging and firing circuit is the same as it was in 1960 or before.

 

You have an inverter that steps the low battery voltage up to 320 ~ 350 volts, which charges a storage capacitor of between 600uF (pathetic!) and 1500uF (good!). The Xenon flash tube sits across the HV storage capacitor with some variation of trigger circuit connected to the trigger electrode of the tube.

 

When the flash is triggered, a small auto-transformer sends a pulse of around 5,000 volts to the trigger electrode, causing a gas plasma in the tube that cascades and creates a current path for the main storage capacitor to discharge and light up the tube.

 

The 'clever' bit then comes into play in controlling the duration of the flash discharge.

 

Early circuits used a small enclosed additional discharge tube that effectively short-circuited the Xenon tube and quenched it, thus curtailing the flash, but wasting the rest of the energy stored in the main capacitor - very inefficient.

 

Better circuits used a thyristor and small value capacitor in parallel with the Xenon tube. When the thyristor was triggered, it effectively shorted the Xenon tube with the small capacitor, and the flash was quenched. In this case the unused energy was preserved and efficiency was much higher. However, the shortest flash duration was limited by the thyristor turn-on time, and by the quenching capacitor.

 

The latest circuits have a device called an IGBT (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor) in series with the tube. These devices can directly control the current through the Xenon tube and turn it on and off. The result is that extremely fast switching of the tube is possible - giving us extended pulsed output for Focal-Plane synchronisation (HSS).

 

Enough already! There you have a potted history of speedlight evolution to date.

Great info... now I just need a connector!

Can't help you there I'm afraid.

Nikon, Canon and Sunpak each moulded their own proprietary HV connector plugs and sockets.

 

Best bet is to scour the internet for spare cables for Chinese-made copies of HV packs.

 

Sunpak made a rather cumbersome HV shoulder-pack that originally took an obsolete (and expensive) 510 volt dry battery. They also supplied a NiCd powered inverter as a replacement for the battery at one time. I managed to get hold of one by pure chance, but I think they're as rare as hen's teeth nowadays.

Can't help you there I'm afraid.

Nikon, Canon and Sunpak each moulded their own proprietary HV connector plugs and sockets.

 

Best bet is to scour the internet for spare cables for Chinese-made copies of HV packs.

 

Sunpak made a rather cumbersome HV shoulder-pack that originally took an obsolete (and expensive) 510 volt dry battery. They also supplied a NiCd powered inverter as a replacement for the battery at one time. I managed to get hold of one by pure chance, but I think they're as rare as hen's teeth nowadays.

 

Just as hard to find as the NiCd pack for the Honeywell Strobonar.

I think a general Quantum-type high-voltage cable is available for the Sunpak 2-pin plug (has the notation CS4, and CS5 for the 3-pin). This will work (I assume!) with Quantum-compatible powerpacks like the Godox Powerpac (the best value portable HV power source, as far as I can see today). I just don't know whether it will plug into the JJC 8AA-battery pack! There's another cable labelled MG2, for 6-volt DC packs feeding into the AA-battery chamber as well, with a 'RCA' jack at the power pack end.

Do you think the 2-pin HV connector for Vivitar/Pentax flashes can be connected to the 2-pin Sunpak plug? Only problem would be if the polarities were reversed :/

If the pins are changed on the pack side (as you said), then you have to DiY the cable and match up the correct pins on the pack and flash ends.

Plugs are fussy. Some can interchange, some cannot, and some will interchange in only one direction.

Get the correct cable/plug for YOUR flash.

I bought this off ebay.co.uk: JJC External Flash Battery Pack Replaces CANON CP-E4 for 600EX/580EX YONGNUO 560 I don't know the first thing about electronics. Basing my assumptions on the Vivitar PPG-1 I put 4 1.5V AA cells in the pack, plugged the Quantum CCV dedicated cord (5 pins) for Vivitar into the female DIN plug on the JJC (6 pins - on the Canon cord that came with it) and it fit nice and snug...but did not power up the pack or the flash. Thinking that perhaps there weren't enough cells in the pack I put another 4 in to give it the full compliment of 8 cells and that's when acrid blue smoke started to emit from the pack as it super-heated. Risking life and limb I extracted the cells as quickly as I could to avoid serious damage to anything else; luckily I got away with it but threw £29 GBP down the drain in the process and feel like a complete idiot. I expect that the thing shorted out for some reason. It's fair to say that the two cords were not compatible in this connection set-up so perhaps we should all save up and just get a Quantum Blade, or similar. I wouldn't try that at home again and would suggest that you would do well not to, yourself. I am going to try this next: get another one of the JJC packs and have the plug at the end of the JJC cord changed to one that fits whichever of my Sunpak (auto zoom 2400) or Vivitar (283) That way current should flow and I don't expect that there will be a short in the system causing a burn out again, but I won't know until I try it. At £29.99 for another one versus 100's for a Quantum (too bulky for run and gun anyway) it's worth a punt, in my opinion. Worst that can happen is it won't power either of the flashes and at best it will. If it fails then I'll commit to saving up for a second hand Quantum like the Blade or the earlier version of it, on ebay of course.

I bought this off ebay.co.uk: JJC External Flash Battery Pack Replaces CANON CP-E4 for 600EX/580EX YONGNUO 560

I don't know the first thing about electronics.

 

Basing my assumptions on the Vivitar PPG-1 I put 4 1.5V AA cells in the pack, plugged the Quantum CCV dedicated cord (5 pins) for Vivitar into the female DIN plug on the JJC (6 pins - on the Canon cord that came with it) and it fit nice and snug...but did not power up the pack or the flash. Thinking that perhaps there weren't enough cells in the pack I put another 4 in to give it the full compliment of 8 cells and that's when acrid blue smoke started to emit from the pack as it super-heated. Risking life and limb I extracted the cells as quickly as I could to avoid serious damage to anything else; luckily I got away with it but threw £29 GBP down the drain in the process and feel like a complete idiot. I expect that the thing shorted out for some reason. It's fair to say that the two cords were not compatible in this connection set-up so perhaps we should all save up and just get a Quantum Blade, or similar. I wouldn't try that at home again and would suggest that you would do well not to, yourself. I am going to try this next: get another one of the JJC packs and have the plug at the end of the JJC cord changed to one that fits whichever of my Sunpak (auto zoom 2400) or Vivitar (283) That way current should flow and I don't expect that there will be a short in the system causing a burn out again, but I won't know until I try it. At £29.99 for another one versus 100's for a Quantum (too bulky for run and gun anyway) it's worth a punt, in my opinion. Worst that can happen is it won't power either of the flashes and at best it will. If it fails then I'll commit to saving up for a second hand Quantum like the Blade or the earlier version of it, on ebay of course.

 

You should not be tinkering with high voltage electronics if you don't know what you are doing.

That is an accident just waiting to happen.

 

If you get a 2nd had Quantum, odds are the battery will need to be replaced.

Again, if you don't know what you are doing, you risk damaging the unit or hurting yourself.

+ 1 to what Gary said.

 

Just because things use the cheap and nasty common DIN plug, it doesn't mean you can interchange them and plug one into another at random.

Hmmm...seems like there is an echo in here. You are both too kind for repeating what I have already said, in so many words. If either of you two have anything constructive to say about my issue then by all means share your wisdom.