Experiences with Macrophotography with Hasselblad 503cw

Hi all!

 

I wanted to ask what ppls expereinces are with the hasselblad 503 cw and

macrophotpgrahy....also what are your setups?

 

I am interested in doing some macrophotography with my hasselblad 503cw.

So any kind of advice from ppl who have used a hasselblad 503 for

macrophotography are welcome :D

 

I normally use a Nikon F2 and the micro lenses for macrophotography. But I've been

told that I shouldn't enlarge a photo that has been taken by 35mm camera to more

them A4?

 

I would like to be able to enlarge photos like to A2 and A3 sizes...i've been told that

negs/slides that have been taken by a medium format camera can be enlarged to A1?

 

I can't afford to buy into another system as I only jsut recently purchased the

hasselblad 503cw along with the standard 80mm lens and A12 back. I really like the

6X6 format. And would like to be able to take some macro photos with it if possible

:D

 

thanks all for viewing and replying

 

Cheers,

 

Berry

I shot most of my dental photography for several years using the Hasselblad (at first a 503CX but later the CW)and 150CF on the Vario Extension Tube and a Sunpak DX12R TTL ringlight. Have now switched to digital (EOS).

Jay,

 

How were the results? what was the DOF like?

Was it cumbersome to work with a 503cw for ur dental work?

 

Cheers,

 

Berry

There is no reason you cannot enlarge 35mm images to A3 or larger - if you (and your customers) are satisfied with the results. Not everything needs to look like an 8x10 contact print. Grain in open sky, for example, is more of a problem than sharpness at A3 size.

 

I prefer using extension rings with my Hasselblad. I'm covered down to about 1:4 with a 150/4 Sonnar. Any closer would require a dedicated macro lens for best results. Closeup (diopter) auxilliary lenses, other than the two-element Nikon and Canon adapters, give sub-standard results, IMO. Given these limitations, I'm very pleased with results using standard lenses with extension rings.

 

None of this is cheap!

"But I've been told that I shouldn't enlarge a photo that has been taken by 35mm camera to more them A4"

 

Whoever told you this must have been pulling your leg. I knew a chap who used to produce exquisite 20x16 prints of insects using a Nikon F and the old 55mm macro lens. The secret is film no faster than 50 ISO and preferably slower coupled with great care. You'll actually find it more difficult to shoot macro with the 'blad because the depth of field is so much less.

<<Jay,

How were the results? what was the DOF like? Was it cumbersome to work with a 503cw for ur dental work?>>

 

Results were spectacular. Transparencies easy to view without more than just my dental loupes. DOF at macro magnifications is so shallow already in 35mm the difference really wasn'y noticeable. Wasn't really any more cumbersome than my EOS 1D with a Canon Macro Ringlight and a Tamron 90/2.8 SP Macro lens.

I don't use a Hassy, but I shoot macro in 35 mm, 6x7 and 4x5". You can easily enlarge 35 mm shots to larger than A4, my personal limit is around 30x40 cm (about A3), but it depends on many things. At these sizes medium format will clearly give you an advantage, particularly since macro shots often have out of focus areas which benefit from smaller grain. DOF is shallow in macro regardless of format, doing something like one-quarter life size is a lot easier than 2x life size. The Hassy should serve you well for macro.

Macrophotography with a Hasselblad is not much different to 35mm in principle. Only more clumsy etc. It is not the immediately obvious area in which MF is advantageous, especially given the dedicated lenses, flashes etc in 35mm.

 

On enlargement, you should be able to get bigger acceptable enlargements from a given film with MF, especially if you want a square picture. The bigger the enlargement, the bigger the benefit...

 

I think that good larger than A4 pictures can be taken with 35mm, as Harvey said, on fine grained film, eg Provia. But MF pictures even on fine grained film will stand out after a certain enlargement. CARE is the operative word, as small jiggles or bumps will be magnified along with the image.

 

The preferred way in MF must be extension tubes or bellows, as is the case for 35mm. The macro 'system' with H'blad is nothing like in 35mm, with the exception of the special case 135mm and the Hasselblad 'macro/makro' 120mm lens.

 

Failing getting a 'blad macro lens (expensive and not as macro as in 35mm anyway in the case of the 120), the best alternative for real macro (c. 1:1) is the 80mm. You have it, so tubes are all you need. If you get a 56, plus a 32, you will have greater than life size.

 

There must be some at least theoretical loss, relative to a 'blad macro lens or 35mm macros. This will show up most in copy or flat field-type work, where it is more obvious if resolution and contrast are not maintained across the field, rather than 3D objects, especially if there is an out of focus background.

 

Fixed tubes add limits to the magnification, of course, so the more variety the better. For serious mag., the bellows or variable exension tube are better but expensive and have a MINIMUM enlargement, too. Getting two 16 tubes instead of one 32, say, increases flexibility, but adds cost.

 

A focussing rail will help, as you will need to move the camera to close focus at times.

 

The 100 would be excellent, but is not in a standard kit. I have used the 150 with tubes, with good results, but not really for macro, due to longer extension (nearly double the 80) and shallower DOF. It needs them just for closeups.

 

Exposure will be tricky if you do not have a metered prism, but information on calculating exposure compensation should be in the archives here or see http://www.hasselblad.se/Archive/documents/Downloads_files/Information/Closeup.pdf as a starting point. The principles are simple.

 

Flash is also tricky if you do not have a TTL flash (and even then often needs adjusting). I am not sure if the Sunpak ringflash has that capability on the 503, and other macro-specific options (such as twin flashes) require calibration. This will be in many photo books and maybe the web, though.

 

The Hasselblad Manual can help.There is an old 'close up calculator' in a plastic sleeve, that can be confusing, but ultimately helpful, as are info brochures from over the years. Your distributor might have something. I have one from years ago with all the photography done with an 80 and extension. Not a 120 in sight.

Berry,

 

You can use the old Bellows Extension or the Auto Bellows with your 503CW and your

80mm lens. I prefer the old Bellows Extension to the Auto Bellows because the

extension on the Auto Bellows moves to the front and can interfere with your subject.

With the old Bellows Extension it moves below the camera body. But the old Bellows

Extension requires a double cable release, the newer model releases the shutter on the

lens directly. Though the 80mm is adequate for macro, you may want to consider the

120mm lens, which can also double duty as a portrait lens.

 

Hasselblad's website has a short guide to closeup photography at: http://

www.hasselbladusa.com/Archive/documents/Downloads_files/Information/

Closeup.pdf , but it doesn't go into enough detail with the bellows. Wildi's "The

Hasselblad Manual" has a good section on closeup/macro photography with tables for

each lens. A closeup calculator is available which summarizes this information. One of

the keys to macro, if you do not have TTL metering, is exposure compensation. The

longer the extension, the more compensation required.

 

I plan on using my 500C/M for macro as well (mostly played with copying a few

transparencies so far), and have the old Bellows Extension with shade and the older

length extension tubes. The bellows has the reproduction ratios engraved on it for a

number of lenses. One sets the bellows on a tripod (or you can hand hold, though this

is difficult), chooses the reproduction ratio on the bellows, and then focuses by

racking the whole camera to/fro until you are at the correct distance to be in focus.

This is more accurate than trying to use the lens focus ring, or the extension of the

bellows to focus. I also have the macro flash, but one can substitute good lighting for

flash in many cases. It depends on your subjects. With the bellows and a transparency

copy holder, you can also copy your slides and negatives. It is recommended to pre-

fire the mirror if the subject allows.

 

Taras

Hi all!

 

Thanks for all your responses. The reason why I was asking about whether I could enlarge a 35mm negative to larger then A4 is cause I was thinking of making some prints up and going to one of the markets during the weekends and see if I could get a guy who would be willing to sell them. I'm not sure how hard it would be to sell photos at A4 size as opposed to A3. I thought people generally prefer A3 as it is a nice size to hang up. *shrugs* I might try and get a enlargement of one of the nice shots I have to A3 to see how the grain is like hmm so slower film like velvia 50. How bout iso 100 tranny film? Is that acceptable in terms of grain?

 

Okies I didn't think about getting extension tubes for the 80mm. Another question is what is the working distance like if I were to use a 16mm and 56mm extension with my 80mm? I'm asumming it'd be like a few centimetres from the front of the lens. Can anyone help with this please? Cause I'm interested in taking the blad out to the field and taking photos of flowers as well as maybe some still life work.

Hmm would also need some sort of TTL flash that would work at such close distances.

 

I would like to be able to buy a hassy 120mm makro planar or even the 135mm with the bellows extensions. Maybe when I win the lotto hehehe

 

THanks all for viewing and replying!

Keep the advice coming please! :D

 

Cheers

 

Berry

Hi Taras,

 

OoOooOOers didn't know I could put the 80mm on a bellows unit. Hmmm I thought only the 135mm would work on the bellows unit. Now that is a thought. Yup I have read the closeup.pdf file it's a lil confusing to me as the figures are slightly different to what I've read on about for 35mm macrophotography. Can I ask what kind of macro flash are u using?

 

I'm also thinking bout buying wildis "The Hasselblad Manual".

 

Please let me know how you go with your macrophotography with your set up and if you could post a few of the shots so I have a rough idea of how they turn out that would be most helpful. I'll try and hunt around for a bellows and extension tubes as well. Might be able to buy somethig in a few weeks time or so when I have a lil bit more money.

 

Cheers,

 

Berry

The 80 mm and 120 mm Planars work great on the bellows, yes.<br>But talking about bellows, try to find the old, non-automatic one. Unless full bellows draw is used, the rail on the still current automatic bellows unit protrudes, sticking out to the front. With working distance typically getting rather short, the rail always gets in the way, poking your subject. Not very nice at all.<br>The rail on the non-automatic bellows sticks out to the back, sliding underneath the camera body. Much better.<br><br>My setup, by the way, consists of a camera with non-vignetting mirror (like your CW. I use a 2000 FCW with built-in focal plane shutter, which makes using shutterless lenses a bit easier); all tubes; bellow units; a 120 mm lens to begin with; an 80 mm lens to "bridge the gap"/get a bit closer with full bellows draw; and 16 and 25 mm Luminar lenses for those "higher" magnifications.<br>The 80 mm lens isn't really made to be used for larger than life reproduction (the 120 mm isn't either), but i find it works pretty well anyway (and so does the 120 mm).<br><br>One piece of equipment i wouldn't want to miss for "that bit closer macrophotography" (approx. 2:1 and higher magnification) is the clear focussing screen. It takes some getting used too, and you can't judge depth of field (there is none anyway; i just concentrate on putting focus where it would be best, and forget about depth of field), but it makes focussing pretty easy.<br>

Excuse me but this thread refers to enlargement to A1,A2,etc. I have been in photography a long time and I am not familiar with this. Thanks

Berry,

 

I have the Hasselblad macro flash unit with bracket, which allows you to mount thw two

flash units on opposite sides of the lens. It comes with ND filters to place on the heads to

modify the "flatness" of the light. I don't have a TTL capable camera body, so when I do get

around to using it, there will be a period of trial and error. For some applications, a ring

flash may be better.

 

Any Hasselblad lens can be mounted on the bellows, but I wouldn't go over the 250mm or

below the 80mm. The 80mm can give you a huge reproduction value of up to 3.5:1. The

old style bellows has guides for the reproduction values for the 80mm, 120mm, 135mm,

and 150mm lenses engraved on the unit. For most of the wide lenses, the bellows would

put them out of the range to allow for focus.

 

I agree with the comment on the clear focus screen. I prefer one with an architecture grid

myself.

 

I have mostly used the bellows for copying transparencies so far, and have taken only a

few photos with extension tubes. I will need to find them and scan them. My main interest

is astrophotography, which is at the other extreme end of the lens' focus.

 

Taras

I have done quite some macro work with the Hasselblad. Much was done with the Makro-Planar 4/120 and extension tubes or bellows; also, I used Zeiss Luminar lenses attached to a modified helicoid from a very old C-type Sonnar 150 (was available as spare part). Zeiss Luminar lenses are rather small, about the size of a wine bottle cork. This small lens size allows great flexibility for lighting the macro subject.

 

The Hasselblad gives me one clear advantage over 35 mm cameras when doing macro: with the Polaroid back I get - almost - instant confirmation of what I shot. Very useful especially when doing macro with all that need for exposure compensation.

I shoot with a Nikon F2 and a range of esoteric lenses from Zeiss and Nikon. F2 meters spot on for macros (regardless of the lens, bellows or no bellows!).

 

The 1:2 to 1:1 macros I make (mostly Velvia) enlarge nicely to much larger sizes than A2.

 

I am yet to make comparisons with 6x6 and 6x4.5 shots from a Rollei SL66. The choices of macro lenses (except the Luminar/Photar/Macro Nikkor family of lenses) for MF is a bit limited (again except for >1:1 magnifications).

Hi Q.G,

 

Yup I'm thinking of getting the bellows unit and extension rings once I can some more

money up later ( I just bought a sekonic l-608 light meter...i'm hoping to have it before

the weekend as I have been asked to take photos of my co worker and her lil boys...I'll be

bringing the hasselblad for formal shots :D) So I am extremely short of cash right now and

am waiting to get paid this week too so i can pay off the other bills.

 

Hmmm clear focusing screen? I have a 2nd 503cw body that I had to pay for cause I was

the only one who had bidded on the body at the same time when i bought my 503cw kit

2nd on ebay. The 2nd body has a clear screen where as the one I'm currently using was

said to have a bright D screen or somtehing I'm can't remember what it was called and am

not even sure that it is it. It does have a split circle at the centre of the screen though for

focusing. I am thinking of keeping the screen with the split circle at the centre as it helps

me focus a bit better and is good for general photography though I might test the clear

screen when I take some photos next time just to see how it feels.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Hi Taras!

 

Wow I didnt' know their was a macroflash unit with bracket that was made by hasselblad?

Could I ask you what model and details of those units please? Sounds good! Yea some ppl

tell me that ringflash are good too but I've been told that it gives a real flat light? That

makes the subject look dull? or flat? (prolly better for say portraiture photography or even

fashion? *shrugs*) with my Nikon F2 I use a vivitar 102 mounted on a kirk macro flash

bracket and the flash is placed at the front of the lens hood at a45 degree angle....

Yup any photos that you could get scanned will be nice :D

 

Thanks for your help and advice Taras!

 

Hi Kornelius!

 

I've read your other posts in the other forums in regards to macrophotography and that

you work for Zeiss. Could you post some of the photos that you have taken? and what is

the working distance like with the 120mmF4 for macro work? I'm also interested in

working with my 80mm and extension tubes do you know what kind of working distance

would I have if I were to use the 32mm and 56mm extension tubes?

I've also heard about the famed luminar lenses why are they so good? and what kind of

magnifications can you get with them?

 

Thanks Kornelius for viewing and replying to this thread!

 

Hi Vivek!

 

Cools so you've gottten A2 sizes with 35mm slides! Do you use Velvia 50? or Velvia 100? I

was thinking bout using iso 100 slide film and then if i do get some nice shots i would

enlarge them to say like A2 sizes.....What is the grain like on the photo when you enlarge

photos to A2 size? Wow what kind of zeiss lens do yo use with your F2?

 

I would be interested in what kind of outfit you have and what kind of setup you use for

macrophotography Vivek!

 

thanks for you input!

 

Thanks to all who are replying and viewing this thread!

 

keep all the replys and advice coming!

 

Cheers all!

 

Berry

I like the pictures of flowers I got last year with my 501CM, CFE80 + 16E and/or 56E and Provia 100F and Astia 100.

 

This year I have a 503CW and 2000FC, 8+16E+56E extensions, CF-FLE50/4, CFi100/3.5, 2XE, and I'll use Provia 100F and Astia 100F for everything including "macro". :-) Wish I had a good scanner.

 

Good luck!

Berry,

 

Mostly, it comes down to the lens as I found out and they should be capable of providing high resolution (200 lp/mm and up). With ML, stable tripod, shutter cable release, quite large enlargements (with equally good enlarging set-up, including the lens there)with sharp prints result. Grain is there as it should be for a given film but the details from the images hold up well. If shooting BW, Tech Pan is the film of choice

 

If you want very large enlargeable slides on Velvia (50, slightly over-exposed), my favorites for 1:1, S-Planar 74mm f/4, for 1:2 -many lenses all of which made the micronikkor 55mm lens obsolete.

 

The 74mm lens will cover > 6x6 (close to 200 lp/mm). Color fidelity is superb with no discernable distortion.

 

The tiny 74mm lens can be found used.

 

KF has written extensively about this lens in the net (and I find it to be true).

Berry,

 

The Macro Flash Unit (51678) contains two flashes and a control unit, wide angle and

ND screens for the flash heads, mounting bracket, cords, double flash outlet and a

SCA 301 adapter. The Macro flash bracket uses the same lens mounting rings as the

proshade (and auto bellows shade). I am not sure, but it should be able to use the TTL

metering of the 503CW.

 

I misread the charts/engraving. I think the maximum reproduction is 3:1 with the

80mm, and the engraved numbers are the exposure compensations.

 

Kornelius' advice on using a Polaroid back can save one many headaches...

 

Taras

Berry

 

I use my 503CW with the 135 (mostly), the 100 (some), and the 120 (rarely). I use the earlier manual bellows that Q.G. mentioned, and his point about the stationary front standard is a good one. I don't think anyone has mentioned that the 503CW and the 501CM won't mount directly on the manual bellows, because the plastic shroud around the shutter release hits the rear standard. You can easily fix this by using a short extension tube (I use a 16mm one) between the body and the bellows. This also screws up the exposure factors engravings on the rails, but you can easily recalculate these if you think you need to (obviously, the error is greater with longer tubes than shorter ones).

 

It's a great setup. The double cable release really isn't much of a problem; this isn't, after all, a quick-handling setup in any case. The automatic bellows offers only a slight advantage, as far as I'm concerned, and the moving front standard would be a real drawback for me.

 

Dick

Hi Audun!

 

Cools! I'd be interested in seeing some of your work once you get them scanned in!

Yea I'm looking for prices for the extension tubes. Just got a sekonic light meter so kinda

poor right now. But loving the light meter!

 

Thanks for your input!

 

Hi Vivek!

 

Yup I have a cable release and a cheapy focusing rail as well. I also have a benbo trekker

tripod, but I think the tripod is too light and the ball head is way too small for the nikon F2

and the manual focus lenses it's a nice tripod to carry round when u go on trips but i don't

think it' sgood for macro work. What kind of tripod are u using? and what woul dyou

recommend? Gitzo? manfrotto? I'm after one that will be able to handle the heavy load of

my Nikon F2 and the manual focusing lenses as well as the hasselblad and it's lenses too.

 

Hmmm 74mm S planna F4? Is that a zeiss lens? what was it orginally made for? rollei?

hasselblad? *shrugs* sorry i'm unfamiliar with the zeiss lenses :(

 

I'll have to read up on what KF has written about this lens.

 

Thanks for your input and keep them coming!

 

Do you have any macro shots scanned in that I can have a look at it?

 

Cheers!

 

Hi Taras!

 

Hmm I tried doig a seach for the hasselblad macro flash unit 51678 on ebay or even o

nthe web for some photos of it or reviews on it but I can't find anything! Could you tell me

more about the unit and any photos? Also do you have any macro photos taken with your

hasselblad scanned into your comp? I'd love to see them!

 

Wow 3:1! thats massive! I'll be happy with 2:1 if I can get that kind of reproduction with

the 80mm.....I assume this is with the bellows unit gotta hunt around for a cheapy one on

ebay. So poor right now surviving on bread and butter till I get paid on thurs!heheh

 

Yup I agree with KF to polaroids would be good. I'm going to save for a polariod back as

my uncle who is a artist has asked me to take photos of his art work. So I'd like to have a

polariod so i an proof the shots before taking actual shots.

 

Thanks for your helpful advice and input please keep them coming Taras!

 

Cheers!

 

Hi Dick!

 

ahh yea you're right no one did mention that bout the bellows unit hmmm so a small

extension tube would be the way to go so that you can mount the 503cw onto it. Hmm

okies would a 8mm one do? or is that too short? hmmmm guess you'll have to measure

16mm or 8mm back from the engravings then in order to get the correct magnifcation

then?

 

Do you have any macro photos taken with your 503cw that I coul have a look at?

 

Thanks for your advice and input Dick!

 

Cheers all and thanks for the helpful advice! Keep them coming please!

 

Berry

Berry,

 

Here is a photo without the bracket: http://www.cameraunion.net/product/

showproduct.php?productid=2632 (remove extra spaces).

 

At 3:1, DOF is very narrow.

 

There was a macro flash on ebay not too long ago. There are at least 3 bellows as of half

an hour ago.

 

I took a few last night on Tech Pan, which I should get back tomorrow. I shot an "N" guage

locomotive at an angle to demonstrate the narrow depth of field. If I got these right, I'll

post them someplace. I plan to shoot a series tonight on Velvia. You've gotten me to

finally get off my butt and try to get a better handle on my macro equipment. Since it has

been cloudy and rainy, hence, no astrophotos. If I remember, I'll try to take a photo of my

macro kit...

 

To answer a question on another forum, I came up with these approx. image sizes with

closeup equipment... this may be useful to somebody.

 

With the bellows and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from 2.75" to 0.85"

(approx.).

With the 55 tube + the 10 tube and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from

2.75" to 2.3" (approx.).

With the 55 tube and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from 3.2" to 2.75"

(approx.).

With the 21 tube + the 10 tube and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from

5.8" to 4.25" (approx.).

With the 21 tube and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from 8.5" to 6"

(approx.).

With the 10 tube and 80mm lens, the length of subject side ranges from 18" to 9"

(approx.).

With the 80mm lens alone, the length of subject side ranges down to 19" (approx.).

The numbers above are my approximations from the chart in the old Close-up

Photography theme booklets published by Hasselblad in the '70s. I mention just the older

tubes, because they can be acquired for a lower price than the newer ones. One can

extrapolate where the 8, 16, 32, and 56 fit in based on the above guidelines.

 

The only difficulties I'm aware of with the old bellows unit is some part needs to be

remounted to have the extension rail pass along the right side of the camera (as seen from

behind) instead of below on the EL series. I was unaware of any incompatibilities with the

newer bodies.

 

Taras

Berry,

 

Following the recommendations in the macro flash manual and the old closeup

publications, I got pretty good results on my Velvia shots of last night. I used the 80mm

lens, instead of my favorite, the 100mm f/3.5, so that you could get an idea of what to

expect if you use the bellows and flash with your lens. I'll let you know once I get some of

the images scanned.

 

Taras

Hi Taras!

 

Yup I just did a search for the hasselblad macro flash unit. I found one for bout $400 but

their was rust in the battery compartment so I don't think i'll bid on that one. I'll keep an

eye out for that macroflash unit though. I hope the TTL features of the unit will work with

the 503cw. I'm going to need to save a fair bit for the macro flash unit and the bellows

unit too poor after buying the light meter. And I'm not making any money from

photography, just a keen hobbyist right now hehehe

 

Cools I'd love to see the photos that you took with your 80mm and the bellows at what

magnification did you take them at and also what was teh working distance?

 

Cheers and thanks for the input and advice Taras!

 

Berry