Jump to content

Even better!! Question about photographer's background effects.


missy_kay

Recommended Posts

<p>I found a photographer even better than from my post last week...</p>

<p><a href="http://jasminestarblog.com">http://jasminestarblog.com</a></p>

<p>WOW!!!!!!! Is all I can say!<br>

Ok so what am I missing here? How do a lot of high-end photographers get white as a background. Are they doing spot metering? Overexposing the background? I'm curious because in this photo the sky is blue-<br>

<a href="http://www.jasminestarblog.com/images/content/BlogWPPI20090005.jpg">http://www.jasminestarblog.com/images/content/BlogWPPI20090005.jpg</a></p>

<p>Then in this photo in the SAME location it's white and invisible-<br>

<a href="http://www.jasminestarblog.com/images/content/BlogWPPI20090007.jpg">http://www.jasminestarblog.com/images/content/BlogWPPI20090007.jpg</a></p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>It is exposure. Expose for direct sun, which is what is on the subjects with the blue sky, and you get a blue sky. Expose for the shady side of subjects backlit by sun, which is what the other photo is, and you get white, blown out sky.</p>

<p>There is no need to spot meter for direct sun exposure. It is pretty consistently ISO 100, f11, 1/250th if the sun is strong, direct, and it is not sun rise or sunset. How the other photo was metered is anyone's guess.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>for the photo ....0007.jpg (white sky)</p>

<p>Camera Make: Canon<br /> Camera Model: Canon EOS 5D Mark II<br /> Image Date: 2009:02:17 08:19:23<br /> Flash Used: No<br /> Focal Length: 50.0mm<br /> CCD Width: 5.45mm<br /> Exposure Time: 0.0016 s (1/640)<br /> Aperture: f/2.5<br /> ISO equiv: 200<br /> White Balance: Auto<br /> Metering Mode: Matrix<br /> Exposure: Manual<br /> Exposure Mode: Manual</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>for the photo .....0005.jpg (blue sky)</p>

<p>Camera Make: Canon<br /> Camera Model: Canon EOS 5D Mark II<br /> Image Date: 2009:02:17 08:15:01<br /> Flash Used: No<br /> Focal Length: 50.0mm<br /> CCD Width: 5.45mm<br /> Exposure Time: 0.0003 s (1/3200)<br /> Aperture: f/2.5<br /> ISO equiv: 160<br /> White Balance: Auto<br /> Metering Mode: Matrix<br /> Exposure: Manual<br /> Exposure Mode: Manual</p>

<p>*******************************</p>

<p>As you can tell from the data: the camera was in Matrix metering mode so it's evaluating the entire area and the Exposure was done manually. No tricks here unless the photographer added the blue sky later which is a possibility. 50mm lens and both shots at f2.5 and the ISO were about the same. The only relevant difference is the shutter speed. This photographer has already created a base line exposure and is merely making small tweaks in shutter speed to get the exposure correct for the subjects.</p>

<p>~Not the same location by looking at the backgrounds but even if they are the same location if you stand in one location and take 12 photographs at each hour on a clock (if you were standing in the center of the clock) then you could have a wide range of exposures ... sometimes the sun directly into the camera lens and sometimes from the side and sometimes the sun at the back or creating nice shade: all these from one location depending on where photographer stands and where subject stands. </p>

<p>~The photo with the blue sky also has more shadow area on the guys body as well as a great deal of the background filled with buildings and the photographer is Not shooting directly into Direct and Strong sunlight. Side note: I really am not fond of the top of the building coming out of the guys head on this shot either.</p>

<p> </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>She used a faster shutter speed in the first one, which captures more of the bright sky detail. She used a slower shutter speed in the second one which blows out the highlights in favor of rendering detail in the foreground subjects. I can also say with almost certainty that this photographer is not working in manual mode and managing exposures for consistency, but rather is shooting in wide aperture to defocus the background, and probably Aperture priority mode, letting the camera decide the shutter speed depending on exposure compensation. You get some inconsistent results that way.</p>

<p>Now, let me say that there are some times when you want to blow out the sky, and sometimes when you don't. Adjusting the shutter speed up or down will help you accomplish this.</p>

<p>However, I find other issues with each of these photos. The first one is a nice photo, but the off-center composition would have worked better if the photographer had utilized the background better by eliminating the distracting yellow bollard posts, traffic cabinet, and crosswalk button, and getting a more impressive building off in the distance. Also distracting is the shadow across the male subject. If she had used some fill flash with high speed shutter, or moved them somewhat, she could have eliminated the shadow.</p>

<p>The second one is so blown out with the sun, and it didn't have to be. Using a higher shutter speed with HSS, she could have used the wide aperture with fill flash and faster shutter to retain the sky details. And if she had moved them away from the distracting traffic lights, she would not have a traffic pole growing out of the girl's head, or a traffic signal sitting in front of her face. To me, the off-center composition simply does not work, and looks like a haphazard "artsy" shot, and certainly nothing I would print as an enlargement. I also hope she was not staring into the viewfinder too long into the sun!</p>

<p>I guess I'm wondering what it is about this girl's work that impresses you so much, Kay? Sure, she has a few nice shots with this cute couple, but some of them are just chopped up and haphazard looking. And in my personal opinion, if she were using an off-camera strobe, either handheld or held by an assistant, her photography could be taken to a whole new level, and beyond that of the "artsy" art major with a Canon. I also question why she would go to a street photo shoot in heels, but I guess some prefer style to comfort.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Well, WW read the Exif, so we do know she was in manual mode. My statement to the contrary above was only a guess based on the inconsistency I saw from shot to shot, where I assumed she was letting the camera do the thinking, which can lead to inconsistent results. However, if you don't manage Manual mode properly, the same thing can happen.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>So now that William has peeked at the exif, we see that the blue sky photo is 1 1/3 stop overexposed from sunny 16/bright sun exposure--still going to give a blue sky (particularly with PS help). The white sky photo is 3 2/3 stop overexposed from sunny 16/bright sun exposure--going to give the blown out, white sky. Don't take my word for it. Do the test yourself.</p>

<p>Just because the exif says the camera was set to manual camera mode doesn't mean the settings used were what the camera metered, whatever the metering mode is set to, or that the photographer even metered with the camera at all. If you want to know how and if she metered, ask her.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Please understand, Kay, that I'm not trying to be too harsh or mean in my comments about Jasmine's photos (or your appreciation of them), I just feel that they could have been so much better with better technique and composition. She obviously has a good eye for many shots, and is obviously doing work people like, but for me, it's nothing earthshaking.</p>

<p>As for Eliza Beth's examples, the look is not only the position of the sun, but in how you shot these images. If you used fill flash on the top one, you must not have used enough, and you used too slow of a shutter speed in an effort to get some details in the subjects. The image is still too blown out for most folk's taste (at least mine). You could have used a higher shutter speed with proper fill flash, and had a stand-out shot that would have been much better. Again, my opinion, but it all comes down to technique. As for the bottom image, the sun is clearly not behind them, but less than 90 degrees to your right.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Steve--notice Eliza Beth uses herself as the reference for the sun position, not the subject. So on the bottom photo, the sun is behind the photographer (the 'me' in her description), if oblique.</p>

<p>And, as in the other thread like this, the question is about a technique used, not whether we, the responders, think highly of the image or not. Eliza Beth offers her images as examples of blue sky/white sky, not for critique. Just saying...</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I understand, Nadine, but in looking at the shadows, it really doesn't look like it's behind her, but more to the right. Not to belabor the point, or anything, I'm just saying that's how it looks to me.</p>

<p>And I think I addressed the way the shots were done in my prior post, but I felt that Kay is looking at these shots like they're examples of how they should be done, and I would differ with that, based on my observations. I just want her to have a better understanding of what she's looking at, and ways they could be even better (even though this is all very subjective), before she settles on a style to emulate. I don't feel stating my opinion on these things is out of line, we all do that to some degree. It's a discussion, after all, right? I think we owe it to newcomers to at least nudge them toward a higher standard if we can, without saying "this is how it should be done".</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I’m going to agree with Steve about the two pictures Kay picked as examples because… well…. My opinion is golden…. Right? I’m not seeing the WOW factor here. I like the foreground background subject thing but that’s about it. The crosswalk button kind of fits the street view style, but the traffic lights do tend to distract.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I’m going to agree with Steve about the two pictures Kay picked as examples because… well…. My opinion is golden…. Right? I’m not seeing the WOW factor here. I like the foreground background subject thing but that’s about it. The crosswalk button kind of fits the street view style, but the traffic lights do tend to distract.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Thank you everyone for your input! I really appreciate it! Do other photographers normally not use a flash during a photoshoot? I ALWAYS use my flash and bounce it. Is that something I should shy away from?<br>

-lol at the pole coming out of her head...<br>

-Steve C- you don't like the over-exposed background? I just like it because it looks like theimageisfound.com They use a lot of white backgrounds so the couple is more the center of attention.<br>

Ok so now for the REALLY dumb question. I thought there was only like spot-metering or partial metering, evalutative etc...<br>

So I usually leave it on spot metering to expose for the couple. So what is Matrix metering? I never even heard of it :(</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Kay, matrix metering uses several sections of the image to determine the metering, instead of only evaluating the center area. This gives the camera a broader range of brightness/darkness levels to choose from. You use whichever works best for your subject matter.</p>

<p>As I said, there are some instances where you want to blow out the background for artistic reasons, and some where you don't. Again, it depends on the look you are trying to create and the scene you're shooting. I just didn't like the overexposed background in that particular shot because of the way it makes the traffic light artifacts look like they're floating in air in front of her face.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Not just with Nikon.</p>

<p>Read your the manual for your camera (not sure what you have). The camera metering that evaluates the entire field of view and averages out the values is "matrix". Different names for different manufacturers but essentially the same process. (Marc Williams has a special skill of being able to succinctly put words to these concepts in a way that creates ah-ha moments so you might search some of his posts on exposure.)</p>

<p>The following is from a quick search:</p>

 

<ul>

<li><strong>Matrix metering</strong> on Nikon camera's is called either <strong>Pattern</strong> or <strong>Evaluative</strong> on other models. </li>

<li>Most brands all name the second mode, <strong>Center-weighted metering</strong> or very close to it. </li>

<li>Whereas <strong>Spot metering</strong> found on Nikon SLR's, basically work similar to <strong>Partial metering</strong> on Canon digital camera's. (note: Canon 5d now has "Spot Metering" ... Wm.) </li>

</ul>

<p>Understanding how each metering mode works, is best learned through a method that I like to call 'try and see'.</p>

<h5>Assignment: Lesson in understanding metering modes</h5>

<ol>

<li>Set your SLR camera on program mode for this assignment by turning your dial to the letter <strong>P</strong> . Just for this example, also change your ISO to 400. This will ensure you are able to take a fast photograph in many different situations. </li>

<li>Go outside and take a landscape photograph in your street, firstly using the Matrix (Pattern or Evaluative on some camera's) metering system. Then change your metering to Center-weighted and take another shot of the same landscape. Finally take a third photograph of the same scenery with Spot (partial) metering. <br /> <br /> Load all 3 images onto your computer and see what the difference is. Try this a few more times with different landscapes and sceneries. <br /> <br /> What you should find, is that the Matrix metering system works best in the majority of cases. </li>

<li>Now find a friend who will let you photograph them against a bright background. For example, with the sun shining directly behind them, or against a white sandy beach or freezing snow. <br /> <br /> Compose your shot so their shoulders and head takes up 2/3's of the frame. Once again, take three photographs, one with each of the different metering settings. Load them onto your computer and see what the difference is between each one. <br /> <br /> In this case, you should find that Center-weighted metering works best to expose the facial area correctly. </li>

<li> For the next part of this assignment, place a lightly colored object against a darker background (black if possible). When you compose your shot, place the object directly in the middle of the frame. Once again, take 3 photographs, one for each metering mode. Load them onto your computer and see what the difference is.<br /> <br /> This time you should find Spot metering works best for this particular situation. </li>

</ol>

<p>**********************************<br>

For weddings I use Center Weighted most of the time because "the subject" I'm most interested in is what I want to expose correctly and I shoot with "art" in mind instead of wanting to see a more flat exposure that balances an entire frame. Some think a well balanced look across the entire frame is "good" photography; I say that it's good for them but may not work for others. </p>

<p>My way is not "the right way" ... it's merely a way that works for my style of photography and processing that gives me a final "look" which defines my style. I attract a certain type of bride via my style: it's not "right" but it's my preference. The style becomes my look and my goal is that it's not what I consider to be generic photography.</p>

<p>I mention the above because the exposure process will be the first step in defining your style and it seems to me that you are seeking a style; imo, style starts with defining, in a knowing way, the way you approach and understand how you want to achieve an exposure. So, you're on the right track in asking the questions you are asking. </p>

<p>It's Important to be able and willing to expose for "blue sky" backgrounds as well as learning how to make quick adjustments to blow out the sky ... don't just go for one or the other but actually practice and stand outside clicking away until you understand the concept and can get a "blue sky" or a "blown out sky" when You want it to be that way.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>William - Very good point! A quote the was presented to me recently kind of drives your point home, "Those that know 'how' will always have a job, those who know 'why' will always be their boss." The 'how' makes us technical photographers and a slave to the camera, the 'why' free's us to create and be artists.</p>

<p>Steve C - I'm not sure I understand your consistant drum beat of "your way being the only right way to create art." How you create your art is your way, how others create their art is their way, neither of which is the true, only, or correct way. Rules are meant to be broken, trampled upon, and disregarded based on the artists prerogative, not someone elses idea of what proper photography is. Actually, its always been the artists in the world who have pushed the envelopes of creativity, brought about new forms of expression and business models to make money from them. My suggestion is for you to check out any of Chris Orwigs videos on Lynda.com and listen, really listen.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Kay - if you like J*'s work, check out <a href="http://www.beckersblog.com/">ecker</a> , <a href="http://www.mikecolon.com/">Mike Colon</a> , <a href="http://www.jessicaclaire.net/">Jessica Claire</a> , <a href="http://www.novakphotography.com/">Laura Novak</a> , <a href="http://cheninboutwell.com/">Chenin Boutwell</a> ...there are a ton of really successful photographers who shot this style to certain degrees, are making a ton o'money, and having a blast doing it. Why, because they shoot the way that not only makes them happy as artists but gives them a nice income as well.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Chris, I think you misread my posts. I never said my way was the best way. I'm always very careful not to do that, because photography is a very subjective pursuit, and what looks good to one may look bad to another. So there is no "drum beat" coming from me, only my opinions on what I think would improve a particular shot. Nobody here can say their way is the only way.</p>

<p>Photography is part of the world of art, and the world is full of art critics. We'll never all agree on things so subjective and subtle as what constitutes a great photograph.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...