timarmes Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hi,<p>I'm really in need of some advice before I spend money on something that I'llregret.<p>I currently do a fair bit of home-based "studio" work using a pair of BowansGemini Esprit 500s. I therefore understand about using manual, off camera flash.<p>Now I'd like to invest in a lightweight portable flash for location work, andthis is where I'm stuck. By "location work", I really mean quick portraits andgeneral low-light photography. For anything more serious I'll probably just takealong my studio strobes.<p>One option is to buy the Canon 580EX. I've never used ETTL (other than thenext-to-useless on camera flash), but I think I nevertheless have a goodtechnical understanding of the principles behind it thanks to the numerousarticles out there (Photonotes, Doug Kerr's wireless guide, etc.). There arethings that I like the idea of:<ul><li>Easy on-camera fill flash.<li>Remote control of off-camera flashes via an on-camera controller such asanother 580EX or ST-E2.<li>Automatic ratio control.</ul>However I have concerns:<p><ul><li>Wireless control is done optically, and it would seem that this isn't greatin daylight, especially if the flash is behind me.<li>Going radio isn't an option if you want to keep ETTL functionality</ul><p>Next-up, I'm using a 30D; is ETTL II really a decent system, or would I bebetter off turning the flashes to manual mode? If I go fully manual, then I haveto consider:<p><ul><li>Is there any point is buying a 580EX? There are much cheaper alternative ifETTL isn't a requirement. Would the ETTL still be useful from time to time?<li>In fact, should I buy a Canon flash at all? Since they don't even have a PCsocket (ridiculous), making them more awkward to connect to a wireless-by-radiosystem.</ul><p>There are various sites that offer superb lighting advice. <ahref="http://www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html">Neil van Niekerk</a>makes out-standing use of on-camera flash and ETTL. On the other hand, <ahref="http://www.dg28.com/index.html">Neil Turner</a>, whos images I alsoappreciate, uses off camera flash for most things. <ahref="http://strobist.blogspot.com/">David Hobby</a> is an avid advocate of theoff-camera cheap flash with pocket wizards approach.<p>The problem is that without having enough on-location flash experience I find itvery difficult to decide on the best way to go. I also don't have any experiencewith ETTL to know if I trust it, although if it works I'd be happy with it,obviously. Is the wireless-by-optical limiting?<p>I like Niel van Niekerk's approach of bouncing the on-camera strobe as much aspossible, and this is great for the photographer who needs to move with hissubject. On the other hand, for static subjects, the point mady by David Hobbyis a good one - that off-camera strobes give a good lighting consistancy andallow the photographer more freedom of movement without having to constantlychange the flash position. I can therefore see myself doing both depending onthe circumstances.<p>I suppose the ideal solution is a 580EX with pocket wizards, which would alsoallow me to use my pocket wizards on my studio strobes, however I can't affordthat approach. The ideal ideal would be that Canon introduce a radio based ETTLsystem, and it rather concerns me that they'll do that just <b>after</b> I buythe kit!<p>So, that all said, I'd really appreciate hearing your experiences on on-cameravs off-camera and ETTL vs manual. Maybe you'll give me some things to thinkabout that I haven't already considered.<p>Thanks,<p>Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickvandenberg Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 You've obviously done your homework. Just a data point for you. I have three kids who don't understand "hold still". Or "Please, please, stay there for a second". So ETTL/ETTL II & my 30D is a tremendously useful thing for me. Lightyears beyond what I could do before with my Vivitar 285s. If you'll be doing anything candid on location, then it will be of great use to you. On the other hand, if you can pose your subjects, and have time to adjust the flash output and/or distance, then fully manual on a cheap flash will save you a few bucks -- maybe even enough for a set of pocket wizards. And it'll give you consistency, as you're well aware. The wireless-by-optical thing is only limiting in that you need to have your devices reasonably close by. And I could imagine that some configurations, particularly having the slaves behind you, outdoors, would be a problem. I've not had any issues, but I'm usually inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I use a 580EX when shooting weddings. I don't use, and never have used, Canon's wireless system. When I want off camera flash, I use a manual, off camera flash. Either a Dynalite system, Norman 200B or Sunpak 120Js on manual. I often times use the manual off camera flash with the 580EX on-camera, in ETTL. You aren't supposed to--it isn't supposed to "work", but it does in practice. The reason I've never used Canon's wireless system is because I have heard of and seen examples of the problems--distance problems and aiming the flash and/or wireless "red spots", and funky ratios. I am not trashing the system--I never used it, but that is what I have heard. Are you thinking of using one flash on-camera or several flashes? I would assume several, if you're talking about ratios and the like, but it isn't clear. ETTL/II by itself is kind of funky. ETTL, the original, was funkier. ETTL II (in the 30D) is more consistent, and with observation and testing, you should be able to control it (rather than the other way around). If you are used to manual flash, you may or may not be dismayed at it's "whims". If on your location shots you are talking about multiple flashes and portraits, I would go the route of The Strobist and get cheap manual/auto thyristor units. If you are talking about shooting weddings, I'd get the 580EX. I also used to use Wein's ProSync infrared system with much success, but they don't like to work--or should I say, Canon's 580EX doesn't like to work with anything that is also infrared (I don't even know what the real problem is). So I bought some of those cheap Chinese radio slave units off ebay and they work OK, even on weddings. I get enough reliability out of them to cover the shots I need off camera flash for--including reception hall lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timarmes Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 Thanks everyone for your responses. I also asked this question on the OPF forums. It seems that the general consensus is the same: ETTL can be great for quick and simple lighting, or for constantly changing environments. For "staged" work manual off camera flash offers the greatest consistancy and creative control, which isn't surprising. Perhaps for the moment the most flexible (and expensive) solutions is a Canon master and slave combo, giving you ETTL when you need "quick and simple", and manual with remote control of slaves when you want more control. At a later stage it's also possible to use a radio system to trigger the flashes (without any ability to control the settings) under arrangements where optical transmissions doesn't work. Now I need to decide if that's an investment I'm prepared to make... Regards, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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