Bill Blackwell Images Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 This is being discussed on many other Leica-oriented forums since yesterday. From Erwin Puts website: Farewell to the Leica World 20/10/19 18:07 For more than 35 years I have been intimately involved in the Leica world, encompassing the history of the company, the analysis of the products and the use of the products, all under the umbrella concept of the Leica World. I have experienced and discussed in detail with relevant persons in Wetzlar (old), Solms and Wetzlar (again, new) the digital turn and how the company evolved and changed while adopting the digitalization of the photographic process and the changing world of the internet based photography. The most recent event is the evolution from a manufacturing company to a software-based company. While a commercial success, this change of heart has accomplished a, perhaps not intended, impact: the soul of Leica products has been eradicated. A renewed interest in classical products is the result. The SL and Q are currently the hopeful products for the future. The ghosts of Huawei and Panasonic can be seen all over the campus and while the M-system is still being promoted as the true heir of the Leica lineage, it is now sidelined. Once upon a time, Leica followed its own path, guided by gifted and pioneering engineers and keen marketeers. Nowadays its products are as mainstream as every other camera manufacture. The company has sketched a future and follows a path that I am no longer willing to go. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 What is he, about a hundred years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 And all of his writings are just like that, hard as heck to read with few or no paragraph separation that can go on and on and on and on and.......... If he never wrote another article about anything, much less about Leica, my life wouldn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) What is he, about a hundred years old? I have no idea how old the man is, but he is a well respected figure in the Leica world. His "abandonment" is considered by many (myself included) as significant. However, I'm not sure what he expects a company to do an a very competitive (and dying) market to stay in business. Leica's past business practices have often been off-beat if not unconventional, which has cost them dearly, nearly putting them out of business altogether. Leica's market share is already (let's be kind) insignificant, and the Leica M (film or digital) occupies a fraction of that. My main question to Mr. Puts would be - You're abandoning Leica in favor of what? My guess he's content to stay in the past and wouldn't endorse any ongoing concern at this point. Leica still has numerous individuals (actual users) who are perfectly willing to endorse them. I'm still a believer in the M system (both film and digital) and plan to stick with them into the foreseeable future. Edited October 23, 2019 by Bill Blackwell Images 2 “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 One of the better posters at Rangefinderforum.com who claims to know the man says the only camera he (Putts) owns is a CL (the original film version), a 40mm Summicron and “he isn’t even a photographer...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 His analyses have historically been exceptionally thorough and his comparisons of the full range of lenses since inception has been phenomenal. But all good things come to an end. It doesn't affect my lenses or bodies which will be with me and used until my end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I have the Leica lens compendium myself and referred to it quite a lot in days past. Leica has become a boutique company for high end spenders, and I suspect may have lost some of its admirers simply because the excellence of its lenses is no longer taken as being so special like it used to be. One only has to look at the reviews of Sigma, Canon, Sony (Minolta as was), and other Asian companies such as Samyang/Rokinon to see that they are able to produce optics that can surpass Leica in ways that in the past would not have been conceivable. I am not sure quite why Puts seems put out. Leica are probably right to regard him as a relic from their past and so are perhaps less accommodating to him than they were once back when digital meant fingers. Perhaps he feels ignored. Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Leica has become a boutique company for high end spenders Actually, the word is bling. And not just recently for that matter. I do love my M3, however. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) I have the Leica lens compendium myself and referred to it quite a lot in days past. Leica has become a boutique company for high end spenders, and I suspect may have lost some of its admirers simply because the excellence of its lenses is no longer taken as being so special like it used to be. One only has to look at the reviews of Sigma, Canon, Sony (Minolta as was), and other Asian companies such as Samyang/Rokinon to see that they are able to produce optics that can surpass Leica in ways that in the past would not have been conceivable. I am not sure quite why Puts seems put out. Leica are probably right to regard him as a relic from their past and so are perhaps less accommodating to him than they were once back when digital meant fingers. Perhaps he feels ignored. As far as I know, Leica never offered Erin Puts anything. He operated solely on his own and produced solely out of his own passion. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so. As to the glass, in my experience at least, few lenses in the 35mm format exceed Leica stop-to-stop FL-to-FL - but many equal or come very close. I've done my own testing myself and found, in many cases, little differences other than color rendition (Erwin Puts has written as much). It is for this very reason I've sold off most of my astronomically expensive Leica lenses in favor of Zeiss ZM, Viogtlander VM, and older Leica M lenses. One of the Pics below was taken with the Leica 18mm Super-Elmar M and one was taken with the Zeiss Distagon T* ZM - both shot at f/5.6. Anyone want to venture a guess which is which? Neither has been processed (both are jpg files right out of the camera). Leica is now reviving some older formulas dating back to the 1950s, which are not sharp at all - still charging as if they were "magical." I can't help but shake my head over that one. ... Here's another set - same lenses, same order, both shot at f/5.6. Edited October 24, 2019 by Bill Blackwell Images “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_mcculloch2 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I'm going for the elmar then zeiss order. Colour rendition. But who knows. Both are in what pollsters call 'the margin of error'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I'm going for the elmar then zeiss order. Colour rendition. But who knows. Both are in what pollsters call 'the margin of error'. Arthur, Arthur - you happen to be correct! “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I never suggested that Erwin got anything from Leica, but I suspect he spent quite some time talking to employees at sales events and perhaps in correspondence (letters and emails) as well as even doing research in their library (they probably had one). Just guessing, but he seemed to have an inside track on many of their developments that I think could only have come from discussion with employees (existing or past). I suspect that many of his contacts will have retired or left the company, to be replaced by people he does not know, and they don't know him either. Pure speculation on my part. By the way, I don't agree with him. I think Leica are doing a good job of making a go of it in a country with about the highest paid labor force in the world in a very competitive environment. I don't buy into the overall superiority of their optics any more though, although it is my experience that most are very good. 1 Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 The man had a passion and in a way sustained him. Leica optics are very good particularly in challenging lighting conditions. What can I say, I prefer the signature of Leica lenses to any other including Zeiss etc. No, I'm not a dentist or doctor or fondler. I wheel and deal in cameras and lenses...tried them all. Just say what I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 ... I think Leica are doing a good job of making a go of it in a country with about the highest paid labor force in the world in a very competitive environment. I don't buy into the overall superiority of their optics any more though, although it is my experience that most are very good.+1 “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Williams Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 As far as I know, Leica never offered Erin Puts anything. He operated solely on his own and produced solely out of his own passion. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.At one point he wrote an 80 page brochure for Leica: https://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/Leica-M-Lenses-Their-Soul-and-Secrets_en.pdf It's the same sort of stuff you'll find in his own books and in his contributions to the later Laney Pocket Books, but restricted to the then current lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_ante Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The comment has already been made, but I also want to say that the Leica market for quite some time has been the same market as Hermès $40,000 handbags (Hermès owned Leica for a while and was marketing a $30,000 camera covered with Hermès leather.). Problem with their digital stuff...it’s just not up to par with Nikon, etc. Leica does have a building making cinema lenses, but these are normally sold to rental houses. What is probably true, is that we are most likely going to see anybody make film cameras of the quality the quality of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Everything has its historical moment, and Leica and Puts have had theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylynn Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 From Puts’ writing, he’s put Leica on a pedestal. The company can’t possibly meet his expectations while remaining in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 Another Zeiss/Leica comparison - All three sets were shot at F/8 in the same lens order (not necessarily in the same order as those herein above); one is the Leica 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M, the other is the Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Biogon ZM. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher_a._junker1 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 I choose Leica for the top photos in each doublet. However I wouldn't be surprised if I am incorrect. But for me Leica's reputation was made at the maximum lens opening, not stopped down. I looked to their lenses performance wide open in the "three C's"- color, clarity and contrast. With a limited budget, I own only one Leica lens made in the last 5 years. The rest begin with the f3.5 Elmar 50 first coated version up to the f2.8 Summaron 35, all still giving results better than my image making skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 ... But for me Leica's reputation was made at the maximum lens opening, not stopped down. I looked to their lenses performance wide open in the "three C's"- color, clarity and contrast. ...Alright - here are the same images wide-open (f/2.8). Same lenses (Leica 24mm Elmarit-M and 25mm Zeiss Biogon ZM), same order. 2 “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Blackwell Images Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 The order for the last two sets is Biogon - Elmarit. The difference in color rendition can especially be seen in the last (wide-open) group where the Biogon is a bit cooler compared to the Elmarit. But as to sharpness the Leica has nothing over on the Zeiss. On a side note, when I did these tests I had the 25mm Biogon 6-bit coded as a 24mm Elmarit-M, but I've since re-coded the Biogon as a 24mm Elmar f/3.5; the Biogon's color rendition is now nearly indistinguishable from the Elmarit. “When you come to a fork in the road, take it ...” – Yogi Berra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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