Equipment for fine art photography

Ok so im not completly a beginer. I am however ready I think to make

the jump into fine art photography or at least trying my best at it.

So here goes. Say for instance I had ZERO Photo equipment and I

wished to buy what it would take to get off the ground in fine art

photography. What would I need? Camera types and Lens. Should I go

digital or film .. Large or medium or 35 mm .. Any advice Would be

appreciated greatly.

"Fine art" covers a lot of ground. Can you get a little more specific, especially how big you plan to go on prints? That would be a major factor in format for any quality work. And B/W or color as your choice of medium? Possible future film availability (certain types) may affect your choice.

Hi, Jeffrey. A Holga would probably work as well as any. Mostly what's required, as I understand from those who claim to know, is finding people who will say that your photography or mine is Fine Art Photography. Being right-brained is considered to be helpful or even necessary - I'm still trying to get that side of my brain to assert itself.

Jeffrey, what type of fine art photography are you looking to go into?

 

I'd say whether it was fine art photography or not is a moot point. You're going to photograph something, and you're going to make some kind of print or image from that. What are you going to photograph, and what size/kind of print are you going to make?

 

As pointed out above, the answer could be anything from a $20 Holga to the finest equipment known to man.

Fine art is more of just a trendy phrase for anything today, thus it really has NO meaning, ACCEPT that folks think that their own "fine art" works are somehow are important. Like a dog likes its own dung all folks like their own, but abhor others piles. In printing often in the back room we call customers fine art work, "fine farts", since each artist like his own, but thinks most all others really stink royally. <BR><BR><b>You will get a better answer to the equipment you need to use if mention what you are going to shoot; </b> instead of the using the nothing phrase "fine art"; which means really anything.<BR><BR>Camera equipment and tools varies with application, mentioning what you want to do in non vague terms will give readers hints on what possible camera gear to use. <BR><BR>An analogy might be that different tools are required to build birdhouses, dollhouses, doghouses, people houses, loghouses, skyscrapers, mud huts. Saying you want to build a fine structure gives little clues as to what you are trying to build, thus little info on what tools are required.

With the analogy of different tools are required to build birdhouses, dollhouses, doghouses, people houses, loghouses, skyscrapers, mud huts, some tools might be the same tool, ie like a hand or circular saw. A common 16oz hammer might be used with all of theses projects, just like a lightmeter might be used with all types of photography. A table sawy might be used for the birdhouse, dollhouse framing, and the trim work on the "people house" and skyscraper.

Kelly, Sounds like you must have been dumped by an artist? Fine art can be defined, you can look in any dictionary.

 

I have a degree in fine art, and on occasion have tried to take a fine art photograph. It is a style you can try to achieve. It matters not what other people think, unless you want to sell the image.

 

Jeffrey, You can jump into fine art photography with any camera.

fine art (orig. considered purely aesthetic, as distinguished from the "useful" arts) 1. any of the art forms that include drawing, painting, sculpture, and ceramics, or, occasionally, architecture, literature, music, dramatic art, or dancing: usually used in pl. 2. artistic objects, as paintings, sculpture, etc., collectively (an exhibition of fine art) 3. any highly creative or intricate skill

 

As best I can tell by that definition, most of my works are Fine Art. Cool!

 

This also means that the Dollar Camera is perfectly adequate for Fine Art Photography!<div></div>

Anthony, a lot of good things in your post, including points to disagree with. My American Heritage dictionary gives a typical utilitarian definition of fine art: "Art produced or intended primarily for beauty rather than utility." But of course the definition uses its own term "art" to define itself (as though there were some type of art that wasn't "fine"), and introduces the likewise difficult term "beauty" (as in the eye of the beholder).

 

But the way out of the definitional problem is what you said: "It matters not what other people think, unless you want to sell the image."

 

Yes, there is, as you say, "a style you can try to achieve," though it's not just one style. The range of sincere positive and negative critiques and 3 - 7 ratings of the aesthetics of any single image in the Critique Forum attests to the impossibility of stating what that style is or whether it has been achieved.

 

In the end I think we're all saying the same thing: what matters most is the photographer and not the equipment.

 

Stephen, that's a great portfolio of hi-tech photos. Some might just be fine art (I really do like the Holga photo of the pier)!

 

Finally, my son is a film student at Pratt Institute and just finished a course assignment with a Holga!

Makes no difference. Michael Kenna's earliest fine art prints were made from 35mm negatives using a Nikon and Tri-X. Later he used Hasselblads and, I think, medium format Tri-X. He's considered a fine art photographer primarily because he's a master printer and, like Ansel Adams, could make impressive photos using almost any medium, including digital.

 

I've seen more interesting photos made using toy cameras than anything I'll ever make. And I don't mean Holgas. I mean actual toy cameras.

 

Trying to make fine art photographs is like playing catch with grape jelly.

Wow Kelly F - two great posts! As a photographer and a carpenter with aspirations for FIne Art work I loved your post.

 

You might enjoy this link:

 

http://www.readersheds.co.uk/readersheds/share.cfm?from=shedforum

 

Best

JOHN :-)

Like many have said, you can use any camera. What matters is that you understand how to use your camera to make a photograph that looks like what you imagined. In some cases, you may find the Holga to be perfect. At other times, you may find you need a different camera to achieve your vision.

".....it depends on what your definition of is, is" -William Jefferson Clinton

Is art a verb or a noun?

<p>

<a href="http://www.butzi.net/articles/art_is_a_verb.htm">Paul Butzi</a> analyzes the

question.

Anthony, I print stuff for the general public and have heard the term "fine art" to mean so many things that is meaning means really nothing. <BR><BR>After being involved with photography for 1/2 century it is abit annoying to see phrases devolve into meaningless nothing.<BR><BR> It's such an overused phrase, used for anything term that now is even applied to papers, lamination films, mounting, lenses "schneiders LF fine art lenses", inkjet inks, maybe tommorow toilet paper.<BR><BR> A local friends wife has a BS and MS in fine art, the husband says she doesnt know what fine art is, thus he says his wifes college degrees are in fine farts. She has these many , many 3D vertical semi nude affairs on the walls of their house in each room, like a nude in a body bag that they call fine art. It is sort of like a semi porn crucified affair, but they are not religious at all. If one by mistake asks what these masterpieces mean, you get "I'm a professional artist, and get paid to answer simpleton questions by non artists about fine art". There is a workshop in the back where theses wood, plaster and burlap creations get made, painted and framed. This has been going on for a couple of decades in a quest to be discovered. At a block party a year ago, the little cool teenager next door asked me what the canvas 3D shroud "deals" were really about. Sadly I still dont know yet, but think they probably be cool targets at a rifle range. <BR><BR><b>Fine art many times means the customer cares about their work. </b> The phrase "fine art" today has now been applied to paper, and I sell paper too so the publics total confusion adds to the cost of doing business. I have seen the same paper type relabeled to say "fine art", and the non fine art customers ask what the crap is this hokey stuff about.<BR><BR> A decade ago "fine art" usually meant a canvas type inkjet paper, now folks ask for gloss and matte "fine art inkjet papers". Folks now also want the inks to be "fine art inks", what the heck is this? <BR><BR><b>Usually one doesnt want to debate with customers about what "fine art" really means. We just wants to know what product, what service, what paper is meant by the hokey modifier weazel words of "fine art". </b><BR><BR>Some folks are taken aback when one asks what they are talking about, in order just to find out what service or product they want. Heck the "fine art" customers even think each others work is total horse manure, and theirs sweet candy. If artist customers who create these masterpieces cannot agree on what "fine art is"; how is a printer suppose to mind read each customers narrow universe? <BR><BR>There seems to be really not much overlap between each different customers usage of the phrase "fine art", so the task of understanding is abit hard. <BR><BR>Folks will call up and ask if we do retouching work, or can scan, or can print "fine art", and want prices. <b>The goal is to figure out what their narrow little mindset means, so one can communicate. </b><BR><BR>In the last few years giant composite collages seem to be a fade with the local 4 year art courses. We get these giant "fine art" 2x3 foot affair of photos, instamatic, polaroids, report cards, newspaper clippings of a familys kid to duplicate. The "fine art creation" is so thick and fragile it cannot be fed into a 36" wide color scanner, but has to be scanned with a Phase One digital back on a 4x5 camera we have. Then folks want a "fine art copy" for not much money. :) Many of theses "fine art collages" are very well done, except no thought is made to figure waht the cost is of making full size copies for each family member..<BR><BR>The title of this thread <b>Equipment for fine art photography</b> could also be what cameras, what scanners, what lighting is required <b>to make copies</b> of folks many "fine art" works, such as the 3D bural shrouds, leaf collections, zillion sunsets and dog photos, collages dedicated to a persons life, pencil sketches, oil paintings, 3D art created with welded iron pieces, 3d chrome car bumpers welding together like a buck rogers missle, pastels, water colors, wedding photos, scat collection from game animals, cool color prismacolor renderings of future buildings for architects, stamp and coil collections, bug collections, art created from old CPU's, 3d models of buildings, stuff folks write on grains of rice with a rapidograph technical pen, again again the endless dog, horse, sunset, and landscape images. All these customers call their stuff "fine art". maybe I will cut the yard today and create some weird "crop circle"/UFO pattern, and create some fine art too. <BR><BR>The old "Zambeer" master of the brew flute parody by SNL was abit artfull, with the beer flute made out of different sized beer bottles. :)

Anthony, I print stuff for the general public and have heard the term "fine art" to mean so many things that is meaning means really nothing. <BR><BR>After being involved with photography for 1/2 century it is abit annoying to see phrases devolve into meaningless nothing.<BR><BR> It's such an overused phrase, used for anything term that now is even applied to papers, lamination films, mounting, lenses "schneiders LF fine art lenses", inkjet inks, maybe tommorow toilet paper.<BR><BR> A local friends wife has a BS and MS in fine art, the husband says she doesnt know what fine art is, thus he says his wifes college degrees are in fine farts. She has these many , many 3D vertical semi nude affairs on the walls of their house in each room, like a nude in a body bag that they call fine art. It is sort of like a semi porn crucified affair, but they are not religious at all. If one by mistake asks what these masterpieces mean, you get "I'm a professional artist, and get paid to answer simpleton questions by non artists about fine art". There is a workshop in the back where theses wood, plaster and burlap creations get made, painted and framed. This has been going on for a couple of decades in a quest to be discovered. At a block party a year ago, the little cool teenager next door asked me what the canvas 3D shroud "deals" were really about. Sadly I still dont know yet, but think they probably be cool targets at a rifle range. <BR><BR><b>Fine art many times means the customer cares about their work. </b> The phrase "fine art" today has now been applied to paper, and I sell paper too so the publics total confusion adds to the cost of doing business. I have seen the same paper type relabeled to say "fine art", and the non fine art customers ask what the crap is this hokey stuff about.<BR><BR> A decade ago "fine art" usually meant a canvas type inkjet paper, now folks ask for gloss and matte "fine art inkjet papers". Folks now also want the inks to be "fine art inks", what the heck is this? <BR><BR><b>Usually one doesnt want to debate with customers about what "fine art" really means. We just wants to know what product, what service, what paper is meant by the hokey modifier weazel words of "fine art". </b><BR><BR>Some folks are taken aback when one asks what they are talking about, in order just to find out what service or product they want. Heck the "fine art" customers even think each others work is total horse manure, and theirs sweet candy. If artist customers who create these masterpieces cannot agree on what "fine art is"; how is a printer suppose to mind read each customers narrow universe? <BR><BR>There seems to be really not much overlap between each different customers usage of the phrase "fine art", so the task of understanding is abit hard. <BR><BR>Folks will call up and ask if we do retouching work, or can scan, or can print "fine art", and want prices. <b>The goal is to figure out what their narrow little mindset means, so one can communicate. </b><BR><BR>In the last few years giant composite collages seem to be a fade with the local 4 year art courses. We get these giant "fine art" 2x3 foot affair of photos, instamatic, polaroids, report cards, newspaper clippings of a familys kid to duplicate. The "fine art creation" is so thick and fragile it cannot be fed into a 36" wide color scanner, but has to be scanned with a Phase One digital back on a 4x5 camera we have. Then folks want a "fine art copy" for not much money. :) Many of theses "fine art collages" are very well done, except no thought is made to figure waht the cost is of making full size copies for each family member..<BR><BR>The title of this thread <b>Equipment for fine art photography</b> could also be what cameras, what scanners, what lighting is required <b>to make copies</b> of folks many "fine art" works, such as the 3D bural shrouds, leaf collections, zillion sunsets and dog photos, collages dedicated to a persons life, pencil sketches, oil paintings, 3D art created with welded iron pieces, 3d chrome car bumpers welding together like a buck rogers missle, pastels, water colors, wedding photos, scat collection from game animals, cool color prismacolor renderings of future buildings for architects, stamp and coil collections, bug collections, art created from old CPU's, 3d models of buildings, stuff folks write on grains of rice with a rapidograph technical pen, again again the endless dog, horse, sunset, and landscape images. All these customers call their stuff "fine art". maybe I will cut the yard today and create some weird "crop circle"/UFO pattern, and create some fine art too. <BR><BR>The old "Zambeer" master of the brew flute parody by SNL was abit artfull, with the beer flute made out of different sized beer bottles. :)

Kelly, Wonderful post, but I am now convinced you have issues with artists! :)

 

What I did not make clear is that I do not wish to defend "fine artists". There is no need to unless they are asking you to buy there work.

 

But why piss on Jeffrey's chips. He knows what "fine art" is, and wishes to pursue his passion. I think this is an admirable ambition, an feel it is unfair that you are rubbishing his desire. His only question was what equipment did he need.

Mel, I think we concur.

 

But I did of course mean an English not American dictionary. (just kidding)

Let me see: artful pictures can be made (and have been made) with a 4$ yard sale purchase clunker, as well with a $30,000 digital Hasselblad; and with everything in between, pinholes and all.

 

Now, both "extreme" cameras mentioned also have given rise to zillions of trite pictures with no artistic value at all.

 

And on a good day many of us can generate good pictures, while on a bad day, our pics all suck, independent of the equipment. All this seems to indicate that the equipment is irrelevant here. It is the photographer's creativity, insight, ... that matters here.

 

You question is totally ill-posed. You are searching for the answer under the wrong rock, Jeffrey.

 

I think art is created by the human mind, feeling, seeing, doing, not by gear.

 

It is what is behind the camera, in the brain and heart of the photographer that produces art, and not in the brushes of Van Gogh, or the piano keys of deaf old Beethoven.

 

Agreed?

 

So why did you ask this no-brainer? Are your pictures not coming out well?

 

Then work on your art with the equipment you have. Work with your mind and heart at it, please. And good luck then.

Anthony, by defining what Jeffery wants in non vague, plain terms, he will get a better answer as to his equipment. <BR><BR>Fine art photographers use all sorts of camera gear, from Holgas, 35mm disposables, Hasselblad, 4x5 view, polaroids, 35mm slr, 35mm RF and all the digitals made. <BR><BR>This question is like saying one wants to be a fine cook, but mentions no clues as what type of cooking one wants to do or start out with..<BR><BR><b>Many creative artists types have troubles with details, or being specific.</b> If one goes to Home Depot asking for "fine wood", but one cannot say whether one wants a board, or sheet, or the project size, the vagueness creates a non answer, or one that is confusing. By being less cagey and actually mentioning some details on the project, folks get steered to possible products to try. <BR><BR>Part of a printers cost of dealing with artist types in printing is this coded obfuscation in communication, hand holding, not being direct, using weasel words, the gassy lets be cagey and give colorfull obtuse phrases that consume alot of time. <BR><BR>Alot of these folks are real creative because their minds are NOT filled with details. Often their creation we get is super, but has wild colors out of gammut of any printing process, a finished size magically just a grunt larger than a standard paper size or frame, or has a meterial and color that doenst scan well at all. If they built a house they probably would use 13" stud spacings, 11 guage wire, 8.5 foot ceilings, no rebar, and metric shingles. Then they would be baffled why their house cost alot to build than their neighbors. <BR><BR>It is not that printers dont like our artist customers, it is just learning the gobbly gook each artist speaks, ie artist speak. We tend to get alot of artists, BECAUSE we do strive to communicate and dechiper the gobbley gook touchie feeley stuff they speak. Some of these folks are also colorblind, so this adds to the mix. <BR><BR>At least a carpenter "artist" sort of knows what they are trying to cut, a piece of plywood, a 2x6 rafter, a 2x4 stud, a facia board, a joist, a fence post. <BR><BR>Artist types need to be more direct and reduce the obfuscating with vague terms. The more successfull ones dont buy into these trendy mean nothing terms, and strive to communicate with others.

<b>Jeffery you should mention what "fine art" means to you, so folks can give you some equipmment clues.</b><BR><BR>It really doesnt matter if you definition of "fine art" is the same as another chaps. This is a sinkhole, and endless pit with no answer,<BR><BR>What print sizes are you targeting?<BR><BR>Are you subjects still or moving?<BR><BR>What will the lighting brighness be?<BR><BR>What will the subject distance be?<BR><BR>With specifics, the choice of tools can be narrowed.<BR><BR>

Some great comments here.

 

Unfortunately, there are some who, for whatever reason, have dug themselves in to deny

that fine art even exists, regardless of the medium of expression. It's like someone who

never ventured very far from their home town denying the existence of other continents

and cultures, or at least denigrating them to somehow justify their own self-imposed

aesthetic exile. Growth and greater experience await those venture beyond their comfort

or complacency and engage in the challenging pursuit of aesthetic experience.

 

Yes, many are those who produce and promote "fine art" (in label only) which is vacuous,

vernacular, or just downright cheesy, but just because someone else maintains a low

ceiling doesn't mean you have to live under it. "Fine art", like "love" or "happiness", can

reveal much about the user of the term in relation to the generally accepted definition.

Caveat emptor.

 

As for what photographic equipment is most appropriate for the pursuit, pretty much

everything has been used effectively, from homemade pinhole cameras, to the highest

tech devices of the period. Selection is determined by both what equipment is available to

you, and what equipment doesn't get in the way of your vision.

 

For example, Sebastaio Salgado has made powerful images using 35mm (Leica, I think)

with B&W Tri-X film for large prints where the film grain structure is obvious and

appropriate for his vision. http://www.terra.com.br/sebastiaosalgado/e_op1/ew_fs.html .

Richard Avedon made an extraordinary series of enormous portraits, "In The American

West" http://www.cartermuseum.org/Exhibitions/avedon using a vintage 8x10 Deardorff.

Both surely had a wide range of equipment available to them, but found these particular

instruments most appropriate to their purposes at the time.

 

Of course, your statement, "Say for instance I had ZERO Photo equipment and I wished to

buy what it would take to get off the ground in fine art photography," potentially makes

the fallacious presumption that it's possible to buy taste, vision, and originality, which is

ultimately what it takes, and which has far less to do with photographic equipment.

Buying equipment is easy. It's doing something important with it that's rare.

Kelly, Excellent advise for Jeffrey on camera equipment.

 

But you can not resist having another dig at artists. "Artist types need to be more direct and reduce the obfuscating vague terms. The more successful ones dont buy into these trendy mean nothing terms, and strive to communicate with others"

 

Why should they? To make you happy? Do you buy art? By successful I assume you mean financially, what has money got to do with art?

 

A lot of artists work I admire have minds that do not live on our planet. This is reflected in there work. They often find it hard to explain themselves, because they look at things differently to most "normal" people. In England thankfully, there is traditionally a great fondness for eccentric people.

 

It seems people (artists) that do not conform to your thinking deserve ridicule. Of course the word "fine art" is abused but who cares.

Ben, Excellent post.

 

We agree people should be encouraged to produce "fine art" and not ridiculed for it.

I have really enjoyed this thread, but I think we have all been had?

 

It looks to me like Jeffrey O has been Flameing. He is in fact an experienced photographer who runs a Camera store and Film development lab.