Entry level photography business

What advice, focus, or any other information would anyone have to

point a hopeful, or wishful, amateur photographer towards that first

step into photography as a business. Stock photography is not my

real direction, but, more like personal portraiture, selling

images/prints framed as art, commercial portraiture possibly.

<p>

I recently saw some portraits done for some friends by some

photographer (local) that I am not familiar with, but, I loved the

work he/she did. Portraits set in a theme/surrounding that was very

personally reflecting of the subject. Not the usual pose and smile

type portraits inside the studio, but more intimate and casual. I

loved this apporach, and while I doubt its anything new, it did

capture my attention and imagination.

<p>

I would just love to get in on the ground floor somehow, but, I am

lost as to how to find that doorway leading inside. How does a

beginner first get the work to do and how does one set a price for

his work? Hourly, by the job? Do it free and ask for a donation?

<p>

I do have all of, or real close to enough equipment to at least

start doing some portraiture, weddings or something of that nature.

Ability? I dunno. Thats what I'd like to taste. . . .just enough to

see if I have the right stuff.

There are many experienced photographers here, it would probably help them answer your question if you uploaded images, or had a link to your portfolio, then they could see where you are at. If you don't have an organized portfolio, you need to start here.

I have no portfolio. I guess maybe I should have included a question on how to start building a portfolio. Someone out there has to allow you to photograph them or their event in order to get a portfolio started. How does one get to that point? If my additional question is in the wrong forum post, please advise. Thanks!

Hey Black Plague. I was in your position not too long ago. I just finished my first serious portfolio a while back. I'd say shoot everyone you know that's willing to pose for you. Friends, family. After you've got the images you want, there are a bunch of different philosophies on portfolios... From what I've read and from who I've talked to, most agree that it should be 10-20 photos. When I'm bringing my stuff to galleries I use 8x10 photos, matted to 11x14 in the plastic baggies, then I stick those in a Light Impressions box. For other scenarios I bought a Prat book. Basically just a neat looking, thin, multi-ring binder with clear sleeves to slide the unmounted photos into. Much lighter and easier than matted prints. There are custom books available too. Also, I don't remember the title, but I've seen a book in a few places that's all about putting together a portfolio. Browse around on amazon, you'll probably find it. Check out the other forums too. You'll probably find much better advice than mine. Good luck with everything!

I am very much in the same boat. I am wanting to get somewhere but needing a business entity. From what I have read several times is that you might want to get a web site and e-mail address. And business cards. Go to viataprint.com and there are several simple designs you can order for free, just pay s/h.....so under 15 you should be able to get 250 biz cards.

 

On the card put like your name, email, and website address, phone number.....so now you can have something to pass out locally.

 

The website doesnt have to be too elegant or large, just something that tells people who you are, how to contact you, and several of the images you would like to take on there. Like maybe a few wedding shots, portraiture, framed art.....basically put pictures of your work and give the viewer an idea what to expect.

 

So far since I am still gaining experience I am only charging very little, just enough to cover rentals and equipment. But as I gain the experience and have several happy customers behind me the price will go up. SO Ill do a free shot or two but ask them to sign a model release to allow me to use the pictures later if I need to.

 

This way you can have some sort of business entity to show that you are serious and also that you want to do it. Thats at least how far I am in this so far.

 

I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck!!

<p>Thank you for all the relies!

<p><b>Tom:</b> Your answer is closer to what I was looking for. Since I am experienced (not a wizard though) in both PhotoShop and PageMaker, business cards are no trouble for me. I always design my own, then have them professionally printed. Saves me enough money that I can have good quality cards and a design that is unique to me. I also have been building websites/webpages for years, so, lots of experience there too. A website is definitely already on my list, I just need the content now.

<p>My main concern, or what I was looking for out of my initial posting, was to get some idea or actual experience stories from members who once were in my position and what that person did, acting as an assistant aside, to get their first job, how it went, and what happened afterwards. I will likely have to just jump in somewhere without ever working for another photographer, as there is only a few in town that actually list their business. I know none of them anyway. So my plan is to find a spot to start where I have some room for failure and any mistakes will not be a devastating loss. I was thinking of offering my services, through churches, to those young couples who have very little money for their wedding and still wanted better photo's than they would get from <i>Uncle Bob</i> and his FUJI Funsaver disposable camera. Would this be viable? Less liability?

 

<p>Also, if it matters to anyone who will be reading this, I am using film as I have no digital equipment. My equipment is listed in "My Portfolio" area (Nikon FM-2n and a few Nikkor lenses just in case it cant be viewed by others). I have a small portable lighting system using Vivitar 283's with umbrellas and light stands. I have a selection of reflectors and bounce cards. Simple and inexpensive setup. I do know that <i>high-end</i> events would not be suitable due to my setup as I would likely be laughed at.

<p>I currently do not have any close friends or family that are getting married soon, so, anything I could actually shoot would be just non-event portraiture. I don't know if that is what I need in a portfolio that will be presented to someone who wants their wedding or event covered?

<p>I could care less about the money, as long as I can get enough to cover the processing and prints. I am not in such a financial situation that I could eat the cost of that. I just want to get started somehow, regardless of the pay. I make enough on my regular job to have three or four varieties of beans in the cupboard.

<p>I would like to hear from several other members who would tell me exactly what they did when they were in my position "back when" so I could maybe get some focus (no pun intended).

 

<p>Honestly, my post would have better fit in a forum labeled "Getting Started in a Photography Business".

I'd advise you to pick a name for yourself that didn't sound like something from a 1950s horror movie.

 

If you want to be a professional you might start out by acting like one.

<p>Bob?? What does my name here on Photo.net have to do with anything outside of Photo.net??? I paid my fees, can I not have any name I like?

<p>What, if anything, did I say in ANY of my previous posts that suggests I am acting childish in ANY sort of way??

<p>Its unnecessary answers and responses like yours that make me want to ask for a refund on my subscription fees.

Is this better Bob Atkins? Can I get a "professional" response now?

I don't think Bob was talking sbout your name on here, but more of as in website or business name. And he is right about acting like a professional or business......at least thinkng like one. We all have to, including myself.....so I dont think he meant anything personal, but he does have a point. Its all good man, everyone here seems to be all about helping out.

<p>You are probably right. When I was here before (unpaid user) of Photo.net, I got a lot of negativity from a few members, and Bob was not one of them. He was actually very kind and helpful then. Thats what surprised me about his post earlier. I took it wrong I am sure. I apologize to Bob for my outburst.

<p>Actually, when I subscribed, I never intended for "Black Plague" to be my name at all. I entered R.M.W., my initials, in the <i>screen name</i> box, but for reasons I am unaware of, that is not the name I got. Black Plague was entered as "name", but I thought "screen name" was the one that would be seen in my posts.

<p>Anyway, I am very much an older adult, 41 years, and I would never use a name like that for a professional business name for anything! I am trying to approach this as professionally as I can, even though a bit cautious.

<p>All I asked for here is help, and I have no help to offer anyone else becasue I have no experience. Not everyone that comes to Photo.net is highly educated, well-off financially, located in beautiful scenic areas or fortunate enough to have access to the nicest equipment. But, in my mind, Photo.net is here for those as well as anyone else, and I honestly, Bob's comment not included, feel that it is very difficult to get that help if you show even the slightest amount of ignorance of photography. I feel targeted many times.

<p>Some are actually here to help others, or are at least very willing to offer help in honest, open and constructive ways, so I am not griping about everyone.

<p>But, I do not want this thread to wander off into that area, I just would like to continue it on its original course as I still do not have the answers I really wanted.

Richard, time to chill dude !!! I think you would get a better response in these forums if you focus down your questions and did some research also. Remember, some of the people here have decades of experience and skill, you need to respect that. You basically came on and stated you saw some nice photography and want to go into business !! It's kind of like me installing a light fixture and then asking a master electrician how to go into business, what type response do you think I would get?

 

It is helpful to use the search function and archives before posting. Ask pointed and direct questions on topics that you have not found good answers to.

 

Above all, as stated before,you need to shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. There is no substitute. Remember, this is a profession for some people. Anyone can make some business cards up and claim to be a photographer, it does not do the profession of photography any good unless you can produce quality images........

<p><i>"Richard, time to chill dude !!!" . . ."You basically came on and stated you saw some nice photography and want to go into business !! It's kind of like me installing a light fixture and then asking a master electrician how to go into business, what type response do you think I would get?"</i>

<p>No, I stated I was a hopeful and wishful <i>amateur</i> wanting to get started in the business, and that I saw the portraits by another photographer and was inspired. I am new to portraiture, not photography. I did not pick up my camera yesterday. I am not saying I am great and fantastic and am ready to turn the world on its ear with new photographic techniques and ideas.

<p>

<p><i>"It is helpful to use the search function and archives before posting. Ask pointed and direct questions on topics that you have not found good answers to."</i>

<p>I read, slowly but surely, every possible post I can find on everything I am curious about, but, certainly, in the thousands of posts here, it is often impossible to find exactly what one is looking for. If I am not mistaken, this forum <i>Business of Photography</i> is relatively new. I have been reading posts concerning the "focus", or what I thought was a focus, of my original question, and have not been able to find what I wanted to know. I have certainly found many many posts on shooting portraits, weddings, events and so on, but, nothing I have read so far really explained what that photographer did to get that first job, how it went for them and what were the immediate and long term results from that first experience. I have read the posts on fees and how they are charged by different photographers. That doesn't fit as most of the photog's are talking about current experience. I have read many posts in the "Weddings and Social Events" forum, again, most posts there contain great info, but, are based on current experiences and setups. I wanted the gritty basic answer that tells me what these experienced, and novice photog's alike did to get in the biz and how that first terrifying, or not, professionally labeled photo shoot came about.

<p>Ahh, but, maybe I already have my answer, in that no photographer ever set out to be professional. Maybe it just happened because they had a camera and happened to be pretty good with it. Friends and acquaintences asked them to take their picture and , in the words of Emeril Agassi. . . "Bam!", they kicked it up a notch.

<p>

<p><i>"Above all, as stated before,you need to shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. There is no substitute. Remember, this is a profession for some people. Anyone can make some business cards up and claim to be a photographer, it does not do the profession of photography any good unless you can produce quality images........"</i>

<p>My idea here was not to convey that I wanted to go right out, get a business loan and open a studio tomorrow morning. I wanted suggestions and direction so I could focus my efforts <i>towards</i> becoming a paid photographer. If that means shooting friends and family portraiture for free while building a portfolio, then fine, that would be what I think of as a good advice response. If it means shooting some low income and struggling couples wedding for low or no dollars compensation, even though they are not my friends or family, but, just to get that type of experience, then great! Again, that is a directional answer. If it means to shoot everything except social events and portraits, but shoot shoot shoot, just to be shooting film, and when the time comes to do a wedding or event, show them your landscapes and birds portfolio, then I think that is still an answer for me, but does that sound like the best advice? I don't think so. I do mostly shoot nature and landscape. That is why I have begun to shoot more people photography in that that is where the income will likely be for me.

<p>I think if I had stated that, <b>"I shot my first wedding this week, what do you think of my results?"</b>, and posted some photos along with f-stops used, film, lenses and lighting setup statistics, even if they were totally off, I would have gotten more useful information on what I wanted to know. Someone would have said, "Ok, you need to do this, or do that. Or you should have done this or done that"

<p>But, all I want is advice and direction on what to do to get to that first professional shoot, what to expect when it comes, and do I need a vomit bag tucked into my equipment case.

<p>So, I guess I should have made this more pointed and focused.

 

You stated ... " I think if I had stated that, "I shot my first wedding this week, what do you think of my results?", and posted some photos along with f-stops used, film, lenses and lighting setup statistics, even if they were totally off, I would have gotten more useful information on what I wanted to know."

 

"Totally off"---This attitude is d@mn disgrace. The idea that you would have the balls to shoot someones wedding, with the known potential for crap results, is a disgrace to all wedding photographers, and the client, no matter what their financial means! Do you understand the significance and responsibility that photographing a wedding entails? Do yourself a favor, don't shoot a wedding until you have 100% confidence in your abilities...

 

I'm holding to my previous post analogy, it is correct, someone please help me here...

<p>I don't have any plans on shooting a wedding, or any other paid event until I am confident! I have not shot any weddings at all, or any social events for pay, or for free for that matter! I stated that because likely, I would have gotten some pointers or advice out of it instead of this bullshit I have received so far, save for two replies early in the thread.

<p>What I am simply trying to get is some of the "professionals" or even other "amateurs" experiences when they themselves were newbies to these types of events, so I can have their experiences to read and study so that when that day does come for me, maybe some of it will have stuck with me and I wont be totally uninformed.

<p>I think its YOU that needs to chill out. Damn, I havent said anything to make anyone here think I was going to immediately go shoot a wedding. Where the hell did you get that idea? I said I was interested in getting started in the business on the ground floor. Did I say "get started today"?? No I didnt. Did I mean to ask if there is a way of earning some extra money doing some type of photography? Yes I did.

<p>There is a learning curve here like in anything else one does repeatedly, and I understand that. I did not claim to be up to snuff on anything, but, everyone, no matter what they do, starts somewhere.

<p>Anyway, whats it to you that someone goes out and screws up a photo shoot? More business for you I'd say, that is if you are a professional. So, if you cannot understand what I am asking for, and you think that I am going to muddle up the name of "Professional Wedding Photographers" all over the world, then I suggest you stop reading my posts.

<p>Not that I will, but, this is still a free enterprise country, and if I did want to take a stab at a wedding, I would do so and not even concern myself with what you thought, especially now that I have asked for advice and help, and all I got was bitched at for my "name", called unprofessional for no reason and now a "disgrace".

<p>So, basically, if you have no help to offer, hard-edged or other, you can kiss my ass. If this gets me tossed out of Photo.net, I dont really care as it seems its doing me no good anyway.

If this post here <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007oZv" target=new>->Acceptable Images<-</a> shows examples of acceptable wedding images, then my God, I'd say I could definitely do a wedding today and I should not be worried.

i can understand how you might feel your being attacked. after reading the entries it has came across that way to me too. i too are intersted in hearing these experiances you asked about in your posts. i get the feeling sometimes that people (i'm not talking just those on photo.net, but anybody.) feel since they had to learn things on theyre own, the hard way. you should too. like sharing there knowledge or critiques (in a helpfull way) is somehow cheating. i could be wrong but thats my impression.

now im not sure i can help answer your ?'s fully. waht im in the process of doing now is building my portfolio. i use family and friends for models. i generally offer them a print or two in return for modeling. i have had friends of family members ask for me to shoot portraits for them. i gladly accept these and only charge for materials. i explain to them that im am not a professional photographer and in no way do i garantee(?) the results. i have not had any complaints on the price or the pictures and this helps me buy easing they expense of film, paper, and chemicals. not to mention my confidense. that has been my biggest bonus. the first few times i did a portrait session i was a wreck. it showed in my pictures, not in the technical aspect but in the feeling. since i was so nervous it made my sitters nervous, which resulted in very stiff looking pictures. with more experiance i became more comfortable and so do my sitters. that along with shooting as much as i can afford has made my pictures stand out from what i have seen in my area. hopefully one day ill have a studio, or maybe not. we'll see.

 

doug

<p>Thanks Doug. Had I gotten the correct responses, this conversation might have led to your answer much quicker.

<p>A portfolio is definitely a starting point, I agree, even with Peter, whose first reply was on track.

<p>I suppose what I would have asked in that case is this:

<br>Are portfolios made up of images of friends and family going to apply when I, one day, begin to turn my hobby into a "professional" career?

<p>As I stated earlier, I have no friends or family that arent already married, or at least none that are getting married anytime soon. So, without actual "weddings" and "social events" in my portfolio, can I succssfully use it to gain paying jobs in the future?

<p>If not, and I needed to have those events documented in images, how would I best approach this? What should I expect for the first few attempts. Should I try shooting some weddings for unknowns who cannot afford a true pro? If so, how should I prepare myself?

<p>I just have to believe that there are those out there with these experiences that would share them with me.

You might want to start reading PDN, or check out their student forums (I know that doesn't strictly apply to you, but there's a lot of material there about self-promotion, pricing, and generally 'breaking in' to the field). The site is pdnonline.com.

 

(note to Bob-- was my link to pdnonline the reason my post got deleted before? if so, a clarification of policy on this matter might be helpful. Feel free to remove this paragraph)

Yeah I agreee with the above. Try using otehr resources, I just found out PDN this week, its pretty good stuff there as well.

 

Now as far as no one getting married.....ok get at least a couple or two frineds (guy and girl) get the to model and you rent the dress n porps etc and mock a wedding one afternoon.

 

Me and a firend shot our first wedding here this month, we used a light kit, tripod, a few cameras and a backdrop. Rentals for that was about 60 bux but w had just enough to shoot the wedding in a variety of poses. Rent the same stuff and get the friends to act the part. They dont have to be getting married but it has to look like it...thats all.

 

camera, flash unit, backdrop, light meter, light kit (flash/strobe lights) tripod....these are at least the basics you would want before trying it. And you might want an assistant too to help out, its some serious stuff, its work.

<p>When starting a photography business ... start building a web presence

now. Whether you hire someone to build it or you build it yourself. Get a host

and a domain and start collecting your photos and information about what

kind of stuff you shoot. Then submit your site to the dmoz.com . The major

search engines use this for data and it might take a couple months for you to

get listed so start today. You'll feel great when you get your first call saying &

quot;I found you on google".<br>

<br>

And do what the others said to. But get a web site up. Even if its small.<br>

<br>

Adam<br>

<a href="http://www.paradigmprint.com/corporate-marketing-planning/

portfolio/commercial-photography/index.html">Paradigm Digital

Photography</a><br>

<a href="http://www.paradigmprint.com/corporate-marketing-planning/

portfolio/web-site-consulting/index.html">Paradigm Web Site Design</a><br>

<a href="http://www.paradigmhost.com/">Paradigm Hosting</a></p>

one place to look: www.danheller.com/bizfaq.html

 

interesting discussion and pointed advice on starting a photo business

 

good luck

Yeah let me add an amen to the Dan Heller website......its very nice resrouce to use. He doesnt BS around and gets to the point. I have it all printed out for reference. If anything its a great tool if even to give you ideas to base upon.

i am so happy to have found this forum and thread, i got this mail from a lab based in canada and they say that they are interested in my photos after they saw it on photo.net. i just started digital photography mid last year and am clueless as to how to go about it. they have asked me for a quote now and i need HELP!

 

this is my portfolio on PN, http://tinyurl.com/2apr2, please advise what i need to do now and how do i quote and how much? i am based in india now. thanks in advance for all the replies. cheers!

I am not a member but after reading the responses to Richard W's question, I don't think I want to be. I have never read such Arrogant responses. Most Professorials that I know are eager to help someone starting in a business.