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Entry-Level Field Camera Experiences


bill brant

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Everyone �

 

I have spent a lot of time in the archives, and I am pretty sure that

my question has not been asked too many times before.

 

I am looking into getting a 'starter' 4x5 LF camera. I have been

shooting with a MF system for about 3 years, and am looking for more

control in processing and the ability to control focus with camera

movements. As most of my photography is landscape, I feel confident

that a field camera would be the best LF setup for me. I shoot almost

exclusively in B&W, and do my own printing and processing. My

darkroom is capable of handling 4x5.

 

Weight is not a real high priority, but I do occasionally hike a mile

or more from my car, often over fairly rough ground. Again, weight is

not a real high priority. In any case, if I wanted to carry less

weight, my waistline would be the best place to start...

 

Ok, back to the issue: I do have a budget that I am trying to fit into.

 

In my price range, it looks like I could afford one of the following

cameras:

Used mid-priced 4x5 wood field

New low-priced 4x5 wood field

Used Super Graphic or equivalent (I consider Linhof to be in another

price bracket)

New Toyo 45CF

 

I have to say that I'm not enthused about the choices outlined above.

If I had the $$$, I think I would buy a metal field rather than a

wood field camera. Please keep in mind that this is not based on any

experience! While the wood cameras are beautiful, and (to my eye) the

metal cameras are pretty ugly, I find that I am drawn more to the

metal fields. I suspect that they are more robust and more precise in

operation. Do I *know* this? No. Does it matter? Again, I have no

idea.

 

However, I also suspect that most of the cameras I listed above will

(generally) do what I need them to do, and do it well. I have read

the threads about the Toyo 45CF, and have actually handled one; I wish

I was hearing better things about it.

 

The problem is that I am not located in a major metro area. Local LF

selection is slim, and local availability of used LF systems is tight.

I cannot go down to my favorite dealer and play with a number of new

systems to see what I would want (the Toyo 45CF was the only new

camera they had). Instead, I need to best utilize the resources that

I have access to (that includes you) and make the best decision that I

can. I have done this sort of thing before, and have had good luck

doing so.

 

So, that brings me to my question:

 

If you started out with one of the starter 4x5 field cameras that I

described above, why did you eventually switch to a 'better' field

camera, or has your system met your needs over time? I'd particularly

like to hear from people that do a lot of landscape photography.

 

I'm trying to understand what causes photographers to switch cameras.

Is it the lack of adequate movements? Lack of stiffness? Poor fit

and finish/wearing out/loosening up? Or is it something I have not

thought about before?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

� Bill

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Great question. My first LF camera was an Omega, based on a Toyo, that I got at a photo show for $75. It was rickety and the rear standard didn't lock down well, so I saved up for 4 years for an Arca Swiss.

 

Then, in 1993 I travelled to all 50 states, lugging the Arca FC in a backpack wrapped in the darkcloth. The rail bent, one of the standards doesn't zero out, and the ground glass broke a couple of times.

 

SO I saved up again and last year got a Linhof Master Tecknika. Now I use that for travel and the Arca for portrait work at home.

 

I also was given a Wisner 8x10 last year as a gift, which I am just now really beginning to love and appreciate. Especially those three dimensional contact prints!

 

dgh

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ep levines in boston has a linhof tech iv, perfect except for peeling leatherette (who cares/fix it easily yourself), with a cammed (allows for rf focusing built in) schenider/linhof select 135mm, infinity stops, universal optical finder, recessed board to allow lens to stay on camera when closed and some assorted other linhof goodies -- all for a little more than $1000. all you need is film (a couple of holders are included). no matter how good you get, this camera will never be the limiting factor in your work. the new plastic toyo is a piece of junk, a helga/lomo for LF. besides, it costs 540, add a lens, lens board and the other stuff you need and you will be over $1000. call levines immediately -- someone else will after reading this. i almost bought the thing myself yesterday!! p.s. you can sell the optical finder and some of the other doodads included with the camera on ebay to bring down your net outlay.
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Bill,

 

Speaking from my own experience and similar to yours. I'm using a Crown Graphic as an "introduction" to LF. I really love the thing. (The camera). Not much in the way of movements, but not much are really necesary for landscapes. Light (kind of) and pretty strong. Used a small hammer once to drive home a stubborn hindge pin. Try a 90mm or 127mm for wide angle, 135mm, 150mm or 165mm for normal lengths. In good condition shoud run you $250 - $300 from E-----y. But be careful on the overblown praise of condition the seller will give.

 

Have fun.

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I agonized over camera choices like this when I made the jump. I was concerned about weight since I wanted to backpack my gear so my choices quickly narrowed down to the 3-6 lb range field cameras, metal or wood. Weight and simplicity won out in the end so I bought a Wista DX which Badger Graphics was importing at the time. I paid a little more than new Tachiharas cost today. 3 years later this is still my only camera. I sometimes wish I had a little more rise with my 90mm lens, a little more extension nicer controls. Although I drool over various Ebony and Canham models, I doubt I will buy another camera for a while. I would rather put the money into more film, tripods, heads and lenses.

 

I have one comment with regards to the few cameras you mentioned. To get the full view camera experience, I would lean toward the ones with at least some back movements. You don't know yet whether you will use them or not, and you probably shouldn't restrict yourself at the outset. My camera came with or without rear shift. I got the shift model and found out through a few years experience that I don't use it and so do not need it in my next camera, whenever that will be.

 

Best of luck.

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If you have a feel for metal cameras, Roger has the right idea (and that Linhof at Levine's sounds like a good deal). Another inexpensive Linhof option is the Linhof Color, which is basically a Technika on a monorail. Very sturdy, and very light (about 6lbs). Not lots of movement (though more than the Graphics) and best with 90mm-300mm lenses, but quite sufficient for landscape. That said, I think the low priced wood fields aren't a bad option -- a used Wista or even a new Shen Hao certainly would fit the bill and serve you well for many years.
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The Tachihara was my 1st 4x5, and an excellent camera it was. The 13" bellows draw allowed use of a 300mm lens, a real advantage to me. I upgraded after 10 years to a camera with more movements, but I never regretted the Tachi purchase. You can do a lot with a seemingly simple camera, the Graphics are a little too limited for me. The Linhof Technika would also be an excellent choice but pricier...
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Among the "entry-level" cameras, I'm pretty impressed by the Shen-Hao HZX 4x5 IIA. Extensive movements on both standards, interchangeable bellows, Graflok back, and by all accounts quite sturdy for $625--considerably less than other folding wooden field cameras that have fewer features. You might find you never need to upgrade, but if you do, it uses Technika-style lensboards, so you can easily port your lenses over to a Linhof or any other camera that uses Technika lensboards.
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I put a ton of thought into this issue and went with the shen-hao. I think you'll find in practice that "precision" is no different between a decent wooden camera and a metal one. Before I made the LF plunge I rented a Toyo 45AX (I think) which was an all metal field camera. There are features on the shen hao that make me glad I did not buy a Toyo! Most notably the ability to rack the rear standard forward - Extrememly useful with WA lenses! I would never trade the Shen Hao for any of Toyo's field camera offerings, but that's my opinion having used the Shen Hao extensively and the Toyo for a day. As far as the Tachi's are concerned, they cost the same as Shen-Haos, but the SH has a graflok back which means I can shoot with old(cheap) graphlex 6x7 or 6x9 backs. I cannot recommend this camera enough, especially if you are on a budget. Save money for the lenses - they're at least as important as the camera!
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Although I have only had it for just under a year, I went with a Super Graphic. Mine has had the range finder removed, so it is just over 4 pounds! Light! Built like a tank, and very solid. As you probably know it has extensive front movements, none for the back, but it works for landscape work. On occasion I wish it did have rear base tilt to make up for the limited image circle of my wide angle, but this has not been too much of a problem. I may modify it for rear base tilts in the near future to solve this. It has 12.5 inches of extention, so you can focus a 300mm down to about 20 feet. I am looking for a 300mm Raptar to complete my Wollensak set. The Super is a reliable tool that you can build your landscape system around, but if I could think of one thing that would cause someone to switch it would be the lack or rear movements. It all depends on how you shoot, and that will evolve with time and learning regardless of what camera you buy.

 

The super is a good place to start, and if you find your style needs back movements, you can sell the thing for about what you paid for it. You might even make a profit! So get out there and enjoy!<div>0042VZ-10208584.JPG.f7edfd74383ed17811fac7bed052e7ca.JPG</div>

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WRT the Shen-Hao, with patience you can get quite a nice deal on one on The Site That Shall Not Be Named. I got mine brand new for $470 from a gentleman who'd bought two while in China. It seems quite a few people do this, buying one for themselves and another with an eye to selling it for a quick profit. But I doubt the practice pays; bidding never goes too high on them. The camera is underappreciated, IMO.
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Here is the best advice as was offered to me when I became

interested in large format photography. You may not like it, as I

did not, but trust me it's true.

 

FORGET ABOUT FIELD CAMERAS AND GET A MONORAIL

 

Honestly.

 

It is SO much easier to learn about movements in large format

with a monorail. Entry level field cameras have few movements,

especially back movements. It will be to your advantage to learn

how these movements effect the image first before deciding

whether or not you need them. As a bonus, monorails are

cheaper used than field cameras. It seems that every time a

used tachihara shows up on ebay some fool bids it up to almost

the price of a new one. You can get a calumet cadet or toyo

monorail for fairly cheap used, and with the money you saved

buy a polaroid back and film which is great for learning.

just my 2 cents...

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"FORGET ABOUT FIELD CAMERAS AND GET A MONORAIL" IMHO, is bad advice. OK you can generally find used monorails at low prices but ask yourself why? Generally because they are c**p!! If you are unsure about which type, try hiring one of each for a weekend and see which you prefer.
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The only reason I would not consider a monorail is due to the portability in the field. Of course there are exceptions to that rule and I am sure somebody will point them out. I started with a Calumet C400 monorail and it did most everything I wanted. The problem was packing the camera over greater distances. Short distances from the truck were easily done. I probably would recommend this model because it is robust and usally very, very inexpensive used. The Calumet also offers considerably more movements that a Crown Graphic.
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The suggestion about the Calumet C400 is worth considering carefully.

 

The cameras are inexpensive ($100-$150), found everywhere, and are fully functional, capable view cameras. If you will only occasionally need to carry it a mile from a car,it can be done with this camera - I did so frequently.

 

This Calumet is a low cost way to gain some LF experience. If you want a different camera later or choose not to pursue LF, you will be able to sell it for what you paid for it earlier.

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"The only reason I would not consider a monorail is due to the portability in the field."

 

You got your wishes. Check out the new Arca Swiss entry level camera. It's a monorail camera with interchangeable bellows (short bag, normal, and long bellows). It's SMALLER than your Ebony, it's LIGHTER than your Ebony, it's a lot CHEAPER than your Ebony, and it comes with a beautiful and rigid leather shell and shoulder strap. I think you will like it. Cheers,

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I agree with Paul, Grey and Ed that the C400 is a very good and very sturdy "student" or begginner camera. By student I mean that it isn't as fancy looking or pretty as the "pro" cameras, but it is the photographer's skill and the lens that makes the difference anyway, and it has all the movements you are likely to need. I still use mine for 4x5 and Polaroid and will continue to do so. It can give excellent results as shown in the latest View Camera issue. It is a bit heavy and bulky for the field, since it is a metal monorail. On the plus side, it can take a horrendous beating with no complaints. If I was shopping for a wooden 4x5, the Shen Hao would be very tempting to me. Don't forget the used market either. Many times you can get a bargain from someone who is upgrading or dropping out of 4x5. As for me, I still use the C400 for all my 4x5. For bigger formats, I got old wooden cameras (Seneca Improved and Eastman 2D). They don't have near the movements of the Calumet but are a lot lighter for lugging around. When you weigh 120 pounds sopping wet it matters (laughing).
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Everyone �

 

Thanks; some good responses here.

 

Three people specifically indicated that the lack of rear movements is something that I should watch out for. I think those responses are right on, and that will be something I will look for.

 

A couple of other indicated that 'more movements' is something the wanted, but since one still has their camera (after three years) and the other kept theirs for ten years before upgrading it does not appear to be a huge issue.

 

Extension was also mentioned a couple of times. Since I don't expect to be using anything more than a long normal (based on how little I use my long 35mm and MF lenses) I don't expect this to be a problem. However, I will keep this in mind.

 

Also interesting is what I did *not* hear. For people who addressed my particular area of interest (field cameras), I did not hear people complaining about construction quality/precision in the wood cameras being a reason to switch. That's good to know.

 

Again, thanks everyone!

 

� Bill

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Bill, you've presented an interesting post, and it might be best

answered by breaking up your query into several bits.

(1). Price range. You might interject a return post here to further

narrow your $$$ limitations, but from what you've said so far, it

looks like you are considering a range of from a few hundred

dollars, to perhaps around twelve to fifteen hundred dollars. That

range itself should give posters on this site enough info to guide

you. Sounds like previously owned stuff would your best

approach, as variety is extensive. Just try to get the very best

quality you can. For a guide, follow the Shutterbug ads for a few

issues. Look at Midwest Photo ratings and pricing. Peruse B+H,

and others, to get a comprehensive grasp of how retailers who

have been around awhile price cameras, and how similar that

pricing is, when grading is considered. 'You get what you pay for'

is an appropriate expression here. If retailer X grades widget

BBB at, say, very good condition, it's an even bet that retailer Y is

going to be close in pricing for that same item in that same

condition. Let's not pars here. It's true enough to make the point,

even if it's not an absolute, or universal, truth. When you're

dealing with large format cameras, $50.00 does not a difference

make, IMHO.

 

(2). Metal versus wood. Now THERE you'll get some opinions.

And all of them will be valid. If the most important consideration

is weight, then it's either wood, or an exotic lightweight metal

field. You've indicated, hower, that weight is not that important.

And, because of your price brackets, the exotic metals are out.

Looks like you have focused your possibilities here.

I would favor metal for the same (perceived) reason: a bit more

precision, in that more precise machining is possible when

manufacturing a metal object, and effects of humidity are not a

consideration with metal. But then, there's the feel and beauty of

wood...

 

(3). To paraphrase: "Why did we eventually change to something

different?"

I think you have intuited your answer. We all want: More extensive

movements, especially rise and fall. Think: three inches at least.

Bi or tri-axial front tilt. Yaw-free capabilities. Light weight.

Four-hundred and eighty-five millimeters of bellows draw. A

bellows stiff enough not to sag into the frame at any time, yet

flexible enough to use a short-normal lens when we've decided

to dial in three inches of front rise. Plenty of front and rear shift.

Think: At least two inches. Geared movements. ( Add to the

discussion regarding 'precision').

 

Of course, you're going to have to make compromises

somewhere here. The more movements, the more weight.

Gears add weight. Metal adds weight. Yaw-free adds weight. And

so on.

All of us have faced this quandary. What do we reject; what do we

add? And, of course, the feel, the appearance, the look, is as

valid as anything else. You, after all, are the one living with your

decision.

 

But metaphors are beginning to emerge. Let me not go there....

Good luck with your search, Bill, and post when you get your

camera. I for one will be interested in your choices.

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Bill, This may help(maybe not!) I went shopping for a new tennis racquet a while back, thought the ol'T.A.Davis earned it's retirement! There were so many different tennis racquets made out of some many differnt materials with so many different size heads I was quite confused and asked the Pro, who replied that the new racquets were so different that there simply is no comparison to the older ones, and to just one one that came in a color I like and felt good and use it awhile, then I'd learn just what these new racquets are about and could make a decision on the features that were important to me, then to come back and he'd sell me the racquet that I needed. To apply the same advice to view cameras might be appropriate. All the cameras mentioned here will probably work for you, get the one that you think you'll like(the Linhoff seems like a real deal) but even a Crown Graphic or a Calumet Cadet or the little Gowland Pocket Views are worth looking at. Spend your money on a good lens and shutter to start out with. You can switch boards and put it on the camera you decide you really want later on---if indeed you really want to switch. Good luck!
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Take a hard look at the Shen-Hao 4x5. I was waiting for my first 4x5 to come, a Toyo 45CF and after waiting 2 months and still no camera I cancelled the order and got the Shen-Hao. Now I am glad the Toyo never came. I am only a beginner with Larger Format and just love the Shen-Hao with all the movements which the Toyo doesn't have. Typically all my photo work is outdoors doing landscapes and the Shen-Hao packs down nicely and is light enough for back packing. So far I have take 12 photos with this camera and very pleased with the results and don't see the need to upgrade to any other 4x5 in the near future.
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Bill,

 

First off I am not a pro, although I do occasional portraits for pay and have sold enough of my landscapes to pay for my gear. When I decided to move to LF I first purchased an old Anniversary Speed Graphic with a 135mm lens for a song and added a set of very nice lenses, a Caltar 90mm and 210mm. I shot this for about 2 years as I learned the use of tilt and swing, and the ins-and-outs of LF developing and printing.

 

I then decided I needed more movements, I kept my lenses, sold off the SG, and proceeded to purchase a heck of a Sinar F2 system. After about 4 years I found I was taking the Sinar out less and less and was only using it for portraits, quite a waste. So I sold the Sinar at a hefty little profit ( thank you eBay ) and purchased a new Mamiya RZ from Robert White to do my portraits, and from eBay a beater Super Speed Graphic to do my landscapes.

 

I am very happy now and find that the lack of rear movements has not been a hinderance yet. One other thing, thru careful buying and selling I have not lost any money on the older cameras, however I would loose a ton if I tried to sell of the RZ! I should also mention I also have a 1900s 5x7 for those special shots, but that is another story altogether. I think the very best advise is to go out, handle and shoot as many of the cameras as you can, then decide.

 

Good luck,<div>0043AT-10232684.jpg.1bfedeeb280fdb122d6c885e86a9683f.jpg</div>

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Bill,

 

First off I am not a pro, although I do occasional portraits for pay and have sold enough of my landscapes to pay for my gear. When I decided to move to LF I first purchased an old Anniversary Speed Graphic with a 135mm lens for a song and added a set of very nice lenses, a Caltar 90mm and 210mm. I shot this for about 2 years as I learned the use of tilt and swing, and the ins-and-outs of LF developing and printing.

 

I then decided I needed more movements, I kept my lenses, sold off the SG, and proceeded to purchase a heck of a Sinar F2 system. After about 4 years I found I was taking the Sinar out less and less and was only using it for portraits, quite a waste. So I sold the Sinar at a hefty little profit ( thank you eBay ) and purchased a new Mamiya RZ from Robert White to do my portraits, and from eBay a beater Super Speed Graphic to do my landscapes.

 

I am very happy now and find that the lack of rear movements has not been a hinderance yet. One other thing, thru careful buying and selling I have not lost any money on the older cameras, however I would loose a ton if I tried to sell of the RZ! I should also mention I also have a 1900s 5x7 for those special shots, but that is another story altogether. I think the very best advise is to go out, handle and shoot as many of the cameras as you can, then decide.

 

Good luck,<div>0043Au-10232784.jpg.b5889d145275697876ab4e7c74890b2c.jpg</div>

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I use a Super Graphic and the only reason I would change to something else is to get back movements. Please note that there is a world of difference between a Crown/Speed Graphic and a Super Graphic. The Crown/Speed has almost no movements while the Super has as many (if not more) front movements as a Toyo Field camera. The back of the Super is also rotatable, not just reversible, and it accomodates roll film backs (I have two, 6x7, 6x9). It is my main camera and I use it with three lenses, 90mm, 150mm, and 210mm. It will not fold up with the 90 or the 210 but it does with the 150. It is light, compact, and extremely durable (drive nails with it). I can put the Super in my camera bag (not huge) with three lenses, a spot meter, a light meter, loupe, other small accessories, one roll film back, 6 or 7 film holders, and my notebook. Although they are going up in price, they are still cheaper than other metal field cameras (much, much, much cheaper than a Linhof, for example). There are two main drawbacks: bellows draw is limited to 12.5 inches and there are no back movements. If you absolutely need back movements, this is not the way to go. If not, the Super is by far the best buy field camera there is. And no, mine is not for sale!

 

Don Wallace

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