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enlarger lens on a 4x5 camera?


tom_scott6

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I have an old Schneider Kreuznach Componar 1:4.5 / 75 lens for an enlarger. Is

it possible to use this lens on a view camera? If so what size shutter would I

need?

Thank you for your time and attention in advance as I'm new to the large

format world of photography.

T. Scott

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Coverage expands as the lens moves away from the image, which is the same as saming

coverage expands as you focus on closer objects. To have this effect make a 75 mm enlarger

lens cover 4x5, you will have to focus very close, probably to make a larger than lifesize

image. If you are interested in doing this, look at some of the old threads on macro

photography. The exposures sometimes become so long (from bellows extension and

reciprocity failure), that you might not even need a shutter, at least to try it out.

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One unique use for this lens on the LF and -YES- I have done it with success. It is a tough trick, but you can use it as an extreme macro by mounting it backwards on a lensboard. I did this to get a photo of a coin on 4x5 that was an (about) 8 times enlargement of the coin. This is how it is designed to be used, with these ratios.

 

You have to set the f/stop either before you put the lens in or by removing the back and sticking your hand in. I used a 75mm Omega enlarging lens. Remeber that your depth of field is about 1mm. I did it in a blacked out studio with multiple strobe exposures so the dark slide was my only shutter.

 

Try this. Have fun.

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I have used a Nikkor 135mm EL lens for night shooting. Works very well and is razor sharp. The BS about them not being suitable for landscape stuff is just that BS. Sure if you only look at the math they shouldn't work very well, but if you just use them, and forget about the math they are just fine. I have attached a photo made with the 135mm. In an 11x14 print you can see every bit of detail in the bricks on the building.<div>00KgHg-35927584.jpg.8a8f6d305ac9a989fb16d79b255f72c6.jpg</div>
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Its really not BS but marketing.:) It all depends on how much enlargement you do too. Folks who do ULF often contact print; if a giant 300, 400 or 600mm enlarging lens is mentioned; or heavens forbid a lowly process lens; marketers have to debunk the concept. Creating and promoting dogma is faith based; not rational engineering. An enlarging lens often gives ok performance at infinity usage; if "ok" fits your requirement for the job at hand. Here I use a 135mm F5.6 Schneider Componon on a 4x5 camera with a Phase One scan back; usually for shooting artwork. The lens is not a dud at infinity; but probably not as sharp as one designed for longer ratios. Like any tool you just have to see if the tool mets your requirements; or is not good enough.<BR><BR>The lens is question is only going to cover say a 6x6cm image at infinity; sort of like a 75mm triplet in a 6x6 tlr :).; at 1:1 you will get roughly a 12x12cm image in coverage. <BR><BR>A far deeper problem with using an enlarging lens outside is making a good lens hood.<BR><BR>With a 4x5 speed graphic one of the standard larger lens boards fits the 135mm F5.6 componon perfectly; the stock retaining ring holds it in place.
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The dogma that an enlarging lens can only be used for enlarging gets shattered often if its "ok" for somebodies other application. I first ran into this dogma when working on a microfilm check camera decades ago; the lay managers had a narrow mindset already made up and negative. It like saying one build a dinky doghouse with a roofing nailer. Folks with no vision or afraid to experiment would rather talk than run an actual test; to see if the tool is ok for the job. In amateur photography folks are often not focused; have non specific goals; thus dogma is the norm. A 75mm enlarging lens on the 4x5 speed graphic makes a circular image like a century old Kodak. There was a fad in making images like this back in the early 1960's; for old time images of folks.
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Um, Peter, there may a better way to reverse the lens. I just looked in Schneider's on-line archive and there's no mention of which shutter Companar cells will go into, but I believe that the 75/4.5 will go into a #00. If so, the cells can easily be swapped front to rear.
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I use a 210 Schneider Componon on my 5x7 Speed Graphic. I also use another 210 componon on my 4x5 Graflex RB Auto SLR. The bellows on this camera are long enough that I can remove the front element of the lens (just as in a convertible Schneider Symmar) and have a 370mm lens. On my 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Graflex RB Auto SLR I use a 180 Schneider Componon, and I can also remove the front element of that and I think I get around a 300mm. I have a 240mm Componon that I have used from time to time on an 8x10 Century Universal view camera. I have a 360mm Schneider Componon that I use as a 360mm/600mm convertible on my 11x14 Seneca view camera. I'm happy with the results I get from all of them. I know Dagor77 on Ebay recently compared a Schneider Componon (enlarging lens) and a Schneider Symmar (taking lens) of the same focal length (I can't remember the length) and he couldn't tell the difference on the ground glass of his view camera, even with a loupe.
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Robert, with all due respect to you and Andrew, its impossible to tell much by looking at an image on the ground glass, even with a loupe. GGs are just too coarse. Your on-film results are interesting, but it would be nice to know how much you enlarge.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 years later...

<p>Thanks to Robert for his thoughts on using the larger Componon lenses. That's also what I have in mind. The Componon elements will screw directly into a Copal 1 shutter. I didn't check with dividers, but I think the lens is still an f/5.6 aperture. I will have SK Grimes engrave stops next time I visit RI and they will check maximum aperture size against my 5x7 enlarger lens--which is also a 180 Componon, mounted in a barrel. <br>

This probably sounds like a quest to perfectly match the taking lens to the enlarger lens, following the photography myth that input is then exactly equal to output--and images with mystical symmetry will follow. Actually enlarger lenses are flat field lenses, so enlarger work is optimum and focusing at infinity is not. My plan was only to put a good copal1 shutter to work, using the elements from a broken Componon enlarger lens--an opportunistic 180mm lens that is out of the ordinary. <br>

I mounted it today and tested the lens on my 5x7 Kodak. It's very sharp, and the image circle does seem limitless. I can employ maximum rise with no vignette. A Componon is actually one one of Schneider's best lenses--it has 6 elements in four groups, and is designed to enlarge 5x7 negatives (to very large print sizes).<br>

Anyway, cutting to the chase--I think it's a good view camera lens mounted in a shutter. It's fast, very sharp, and there is generous room for view camera movements, especially in the near-field. A flat-field lens is great for close-up subjects of all kinds, but performance is quite respectable focused at infinity. It is like "macro" lenses that cost considerably more. The 180mm Componon accepts 58mm filters on the front threads if anyone wants to know. <br>

I'm with the "try it, you'll like it" school on this, especially for a top-notch six element design. I wouldn't be surprised if the images were comparable to the G-Clarion design, which is also six elements in four groups. The sharpness should be comparable, but the Componon is an f/5.6 while the G-Clarion is f/9, a considerable difference in brightness. </p>

<p> </p>

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