Electronic shutter and Canon EOS bodies.

<p>Recently a friend showed the ability of a Nikon D3(s?) to sync a flash with shutter speeds as short as 1/8000 sec., even with 30 yr old flash units. He couldn't tell how this was achieved though. His thought that a very fast (mechanical) shutter was used seems very unlikely to me. No HSS was set , and even so these old flashunits will not suppot it. After giving it some thoughts I expect that an electronic shutter did the trick. Please let me know if you have other suggestions. <br>

Does Canon also use an electronic shutter , on which bodies and how to set it? I'm a Canon user but my bodies are too old to support this. I have tried my girlfriend's EOS 70D until now without succes. Either it's not supported or it's carefully hidden in the menus. I see some benefits of this technique hence the question. <br>

Thanks for your help.</p>

<p>The Nikon D3 is unique in it's electronic shutter, able to sync to such high speeds. Other cameras can use various techniques to approximate such "high speed sync" but they don't have the electronic shutter.<br>

<Chas><br /><br /></p>

<p>The Nikon D3 does not have an electronic shutter (it's ability to sync at faster shutter speeds is dependent on the flash supporting FP sync (or HSS in Canon speak); it shares that capability with a lot of other (higher-end) DSLR bodies). The only Nikon cameras that have electronic shutters are the D1, D1X, D1H, D70/D70S, D50, D40. Believe the Canon 1D has one too. All "ancient" - none of the more modern DSLRs has that feature.</p>

<p>http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2011/03/video-nikon-d3-shutter-activation-super-slow-motion<br>

It's a focal plane shutter, so no it doesn't have an electronic shutter. It would be nice to see some examples of what you're describing. What was he using as a trigger?</p>

<p>Thanks for your input. Indeed all or most DSLR's have a focal plane shutter but don't have the newer ones an electronic shutter as well? In video mode they offer a nice range of shutter speeds, without the shutter opening and closing all the time. I can't imagine this being done without an electronic shutter.<br>

The effect I saw was definitely not FP sync/HSS. This was realized direct on camera and/or with a Yongnuo 622 trigger and a thirtysomething yr old flash. <br>

A similar effect can be realized with HSS flash at the cost of flash output but it would be nice to be able to do the same with older flash units, without the need to buy multiple E-TTL flashes.</p>

 

<p>Well he has to be doing something funny. The problem is that with a focal plane shutter camera not set to FP Sync (or similar) is that it won't give the flash the fire command until the first curtain has opened the entire way. When you're over your max X-sync speed that means that your second curtain is already started to travel at that point, with 1/8000th of a second being that the second curtain is right behind the first curtain. It's not even going to get the fire command until most of the exposure is already over, so you'd only get a tiny slit of light.</p>

<p>The YN 622n triggers support iTTL passthrough as well as FP Sync (I think that's what Nikon calls it). If he's not using an iTTL flash then why did he spend the extra cash for the more expensive 622 and didn't just get a 603 or the like? If he has an iTTL flash set to Manual (no pre-flashes) and the rest set to optical slave then he's likely setting off the slaves at the right time and they have such a slow burn rate that they illuminate, albeit unevenly, throughout the exposure, with the iTTL light doing a lot of the filling in.</p>

<p>@Dan: The fact that he was able to get a proper flash exposure with a focal plane shutter led me to the conclusion that the shutter was fully opened and then read out electronically at speeds shorter than the sync speed. AFAIK that's the only way to get it working. Technically I think this is not uncommon, I've seen some articles about the electronic readout of the sensor in the past but unfortunately I have neglected these. <br>

The advantage is that you can not only use older flash units but also studio flashes this way, although I must admit that the benefits are minor. I'm in for a new DSLR, this feature would not be decisive but it could be something to consider.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The fact that he was able to get a proper flash exposure with a focal plane shutter led me to the conclusion that the shutter was fully opened and then read out electronically at speeds shorter than the sync speed.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There's that pesky problem of the fact that this particular camera <strong>CAN'T DO</strong> <strong> THAT</strong> (see the video in my link). <em>"...the video depicts a camera firing continuously at 11 fps with a shutter speed of 1/4000 of a second. At that speed, the second curtain is literally chasing the first across the frame." </em>Max X-sync isn't just a silly thing that manufacturers dream up to drive photographers crazy. It's when the second curtain starts to impede the sensor/film before the first curtain has finish opening all the way. In other words, it's past the point when the sensor/film is completely open to exposure.</p>

<p>Dan please read my comment or this <a href="http://www.scantips.com/lights/flashbasics2c.html">http://www.scantips.com/lights/flashbasics2c.html</a> article, the part about the electronic shutter (about 3/4ths down the page). This is not about a FP shutter sec but about electronic shutters, fully opening the focal plane shutter and reading out the sensor in times shorter than the X-sync. This is typically done in Live View and video.<br>

I'm fully aware of the way a focal plane shutter works, FP flash/HSS to circumvent the X-sync limitation but also curious about electronic shutters. I'm a bit surprised that this is not more widely discussed.</p>

<p>The original 1D had a CCD sensor, and it is my understanding that on such a sensor you can both activate and deactivate the sensor electronically. Obviously you can combine this with a conventional FP shutter. All subsequent Canon DSLRs have used CMOS sensors which can be activated electronically in principle, and this is available in practice in Live View as "electronic first curtain" with the sensor being activated sequentially ahead of the physical FP shutter curtain used to end the exposure mechanically. But – correct me if I am wrong – deactivating a CMOS sensor electronically is a problem, which is why a fully electronic shutter is not available on current EOS DSLRs. Limitations on flash capability are a side-effect of this.</p>

<p>Jos, please see this random googled blog posting about the D3 and high speed sync http://neilvn.com/tangents/high-speed-flash-sync/ It explains it pretty well from someone who has the camera and is intent on getting it to do faster than X-sync speeds.<br>

The D3 also uses a CMOS sensor, not a CCD needed for electronic shutters. See http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3/2<br>

Now please see this posting on the YN 622 having Super Sync http://flashhavoc.com/new-yn-622-tx-has-manual-supersync-timing-adjustment/</p>

<p>It's not the D3, it's the trigger. By the way it has been discussed quite a bit if you know where to look.</p>