Electronic flash for modern film cameras

<p>Let us have an extensive discussion of electronic flash for modern film cameras. A non-exhaustive list of topics could include what features go with what cameras and how they match up with different flash models, exposure determination (e.g. through the lens or not, film plane exposure monitoring, etc.), FP synchronization issues, and the dreaded high voltage synch signal.</p>

<p>Well Nikon's SB800 works fine on the F4 and onwards. :) The simple solution is to buy a flash listed in the camera's owners manual. :)<br>

Sunpak have/had shoe mount TTL capable flashes with something like a dozen different interchangeable hotshoe modules to work with most modern non AF and AF film cameras.<br>

You would need an encyclopedia to cover every thing you mentioned, it would be way easier to answer specific questions.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>OK - rear curtain flash sync<br /> Nikon F4 - you have to have an SB-24 or SB-26. The SB-28 upwards do not have the "rear curtain" sync switch on the flash that is required by the F4<br /> Nikon F5 and F6 - models SB-28 on to the SB-800 that use the rear curtain sync setting on the camera body</p>

<p>I have the SB-28 for my F100 and have wondered how the latest Nikon flashes would work on it. I've also wondered how the SB-28 compares performance-wise to the latest Nikon units.</p>

<p>I don't know about a comparison with the SB28 but the SB600 does work perfectly with the F100.</p>

<p>But the one I like, mostly because I like it when things are bizarrely inexpensive, is the Minolta 360PX (used on an X700). Mine was about $20, it's badass and it nails the exposure in auto.</p>

<p>With prices so reasonable why not pick up a used dedicated flash from the manufacturer of the camera you intend to use. The Sunpak system with dedicated modules is good if you plan to use it with more than one brand of camera. Dedicated flashes should be okay with safe sync voltage. When in doubt borrow a multitester (one with 20,000 ohms/volt sensitivity) and check the sync voltage. Another good bet if you don't care for dedication would be the Vivitar 283. You may still find some NOS. Plenty of power as well as accessories. If your camera has a PC socket you can also use a handle mount flash. I like to use my old Sunpak AP52 flashes with even my late electronic cameras.<br>

I use a Wein Safesync hot shoe adapter so I can use my AP52 with my EOS Rebel K.</p>

Does anyone know if the new Sigma EF 610 (Canon specific models) has any quirks when using the fp synch? The older models had the quirk that if you changed the shutter speed so it dropped below the regular electronic synch setting the flash would then flip out of fp synch mode and wouldn't go back unless the user specifically intervened by changing the shutter speed to a higher speed and then setting it back into fp mode. This little quirk can be rather annoying in the older models, and I wondered if Sigma may have changed it in the newer models.

 

By the way, the comparable canon flashes do not have the fp quirk discussed above.

<p>The SB-800 is the best all-round Nikon flash if you shoot recent dSLRs along with pre-F6 film cameras (F5/F100/F80 etc.). The more recent SB-700 and SB-900 don't support TTL in any Modern Film SLR except the F6. However, the SB-800 (or SB-600) isn't perfect - you lose the FP High-Speed Synch mode with cameras like the F100 (the new 'Auto FP High-Speed Synch' mode the SB-800 provides isn't backwards-compatible). So if you don't shoot with a dSLR or F6, you may be better off with an older flash like the SB-28 or SB-80.</p>

<p>For the Nikon F3: a unique TTL system works only with a few models of flash. Other Nikon TTL flashes will not work TTL, but are fine on auto. Flashes dedicated to other systems may require blanking off the ready-light pin even on manual and auto modes, because they will mess up the shutter setting. Minolta flashes may work, but many third party Minolta-dedicated flashes will not. A shoe adapter with no ready light pin will, of course, solve this. The Vivitar adapter has the pin. I have a Vivitar Series 1 flash dedicated to Canon/Ricoh which operates the sync speed and ready light on the F3 just fine.</p>

<p>Likewise, Minoltas, at least the X series, will not work with a Nikon dedicated flash on any setting unless the ready pin is blanked out. If, for example, you put a Nikon SB-15 on an X-700 it will set the sync speed correctly and fire but the mirror will not return until you turn the flash off.</p>

 

<p>Later guns (up to the SB-800/SB-600) will apparently work in TTL mode with the F3 if you buy the AS-17 TTL Flash Unit Coupler. However, it's a pretty expensive gadget, presumably because it has to 'translate' between the current system and the unique F3 system Matthew mentions. A nice secondhand F100 can be had for not much more...</p>

<p>Indeed, I'm not sufficiently interested in TTL flash to invest in the AS-17. I have the very nicely made but mysteriously pinned Vivitar adapter which B&H sells at a nice price. This has, in addition to the pin for the ready-light and shutter setting, another pin, presumably for TTL, and came with a little slip saying it was only for Vivitar dedicated modules. I suppose that somewhere there's a Vivitar flash with an F3 module, but I have never seen it.</p>

<p>I did a little digging and found a bit more information about the Vivitar stuff for the F3 at the end of this thread:<br>

http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/009KeW<br>

Could be a cheap TTL option for F3 users.</p>

<p>It seems rather odd that the AS-17 only seems to have been introduced at some time in the last decade (a 2004 post calls it 'recently introduced'), which must make it about 15 years late. Someone's pet project at Nikon, perhaps?</p>

<p>For the F3, the Sunpak flashes, 622 and similar that use the hotshoe plugin modules work perfectly with the NE-3D module for TTL flash metering.</p>

<p>The AS-17 was introduced when/after Nikon discontinued the SB16 flash that supported the F3 TTL adapter.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Metz produces a whole slew of SCA adapters for their flashes to allow use on virtually every camera - but I wouldn't rely on their manuals to find out if specific features (like HSS (FP sync)) will indeed work with a specific camera and flash. Metz seems to be moving away from this system now in favor of "system" flashes whose firmware can be upgraded - but I am not sure how backwards compatible those flashes are with film cameras.<br /> http://www.metz.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/Download/Homepage_Englisch/Photo_Electronic/SCA_Archiv_GB/SCA_Adapter_Archive_GB.pdf</p>

<p>As to the F3 - I really don't think it's worth the effort to make an ISO flash work with that particular camera; on account of the 1/80s flash sync speed, the F3 never was a good camera to use for flash photography.</p>

<blockquote>

<p ><a name="00YD3L"></a><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5891701">Lorne Sunley</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub2.gif" alt="" /><img title="Frequent poster" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/2rolls.gif" alt="" /></a>, Feb 13, 2011; 12:23 a.m.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>OK - rear curtain flash sync<br />Nikon F4 - you have to have an SB-24 or SB-26. The SB-28 upwards do not have the "rear curtain" sync switch on the flash that is required by the F4</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I am looking to pick up a flash for my F4. I have been considering an SB-600. It was my impression that the 600 would be fully functional with the F4. Is there an issue with the rear curtain with this flash that I should be aware of?</p>

 

<p>Dieter, not much effort or cost to make an iso hotshoe flash work on a F3 these days. SB-16As are $40 from KEH, or an AS-7 iso hot shoe adapter for $12, and just add almost any thyristor auto type flash. The NE-3D module was all of $9, besides the F3 x sync speed is a little faster than an F or F2. It must have had something going for it as it was a current product for 21 years. :)</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>the F3 x sync speed is a little faster than an F or F2.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Same 1/80 listed for all three.</p>

<p>@Bill - I was really disgusted when I found that I could not get rear curtain sync on my F4 with the SB-800 or SB-600 or SB-28. I found a couple of SB-26 units and bought those to use. The F4 needs a flash with a "rear curtain" sync switch, otherwise you only get front curtain sync. The SB-600 will do just about everything else. Turns out a used SB-26 is about 1/3 the price of an SB-600.</p>

<p>Slight correction, KEH.COM has an SB-26 from $89.00 to $139.00 depending on condition</p>

<p>"Same 1/80 listed for all three."</p>

<p>The F sync speed is 1/60. </p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>The F sync speed is 1/60.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Oops, guess you're right.</p>

<p>The comparability of dedicated flashguns of dedicated marque and independent flash gun models for various cameras is so complex a topic it would be a good subject for a Ph.D. thesis</p>

<p>Thank you Lorne. So, if I understand correctly, the SB-600 will work with the F4 but will not have a rear curtain sync function? I guess I am unclear as to what the rear curtain sync function accomplishes.</p>

<p>@Bill, Rear Curtain Sync makes the flash fire just before the shutter closes. When you are taking a picture where the subject is moving and there is sufficient ambient light to show the subject motion blur, rear curtain sync will show the blur leading up to the final subject position captured when the flash goes off. Front Curtain Sync will show the subject capture by the flash and then the motion blur leading away from the capture position.</p>

<p>Thank you for that explanation Lorne. I can see where that would be advantageous. I suppose a used sb-26 is probably my best choice if I want ttl flash with the F4. I'm also waiting to see what transpires with Nikon over the next few months. I have been considering a D7000. Without overpolluting the Modern Film Camera thread with digital questions, do you know if it (the sb-26) is compatible with a D7000 or should I be thinking more sb-600 and up.</p>