Earliest Summicron M?

Very interesting lens on eBay, a first batch 5cm Summicron (#920100,

yellow glass of course) which is in M MOUNT!

 

Hadnt thought M Summicrons occurred under 1 million!

Anyone seen a similar, or earlier M Summicron.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1361532223

The Hove pocket Book lists this serial number as being from 1951. The lens itself is described as dating from 1953 in screw mount, or 54 in bayonet. A few early Summicrons were made disguised as Summitars and distributed to photographers for reactions. Maybe this one was of that time, but not disguised; or, maybe they changed out the retaining ring later. Just my speculation.

 

Bob Fleischman

I believe the fake Summitars had a "*" sign next to the serial number.

 

feli

The first production batches in SM were 920xxx and 921xxx, where this lens fits. The summicrons-in-drag were marked Summitar*.

 

Why switch out the retaining ring when just screwing on a SM to M adapter had to be far less expensive?

 

Maybe they were planning to play games with us 50 years in the future!

The prototype Summicrons (Summitars with a star) all stopped

down to f/22. Production Summicrons stop down to f/16 as this

lens does. (source: Laney)

This is a very early 50 Summicron M, although I gave seen SM Summicrons with slightly earlier numbers. But it cannot be considered a prototype, just an early production example. As far as I can tell, it is identical in its barrel configuration, engravings, etc. to later production lenses and it does not have a prototype SN either. The true prototypes for the 50 Summicron collapsible were the Summitar star lenses mentioned above.

Eliot-

But have you seen M Summicrons this early? That is what is so remarkable about this lens. I hadn't heard of M's under 1 million before...

Eliot-

But have you seen M Summicrons this early? That is what is so remarkable about this lens. I hadn't heard of M's under 1 million before....

I guess all this really proves is that the serial number-to-date tables provided by Leitz to Hove, and others, really aren't that reliable. There are obviously exceptions not noted in these compact tables.

I have exchanged email about this lens with Jim Lager. He conjectures that this may have been a lens destined for the prototype M3. He checked an old Leitz delivery ledger and most of the lenses in the range 920951-921000 were delivered in April 1953,this lens is a bit earlier. M3 prototypes were undergoing testing in 1952-53. Mr. Lager refers to page 189 in Volume 1 (cameras) of his magnum opus which shows an M Summicron 920084 which is clearly a test lens, having two focusing knobs and a different arrangement to the base of the lens mount. SO at least one other lens (16 lenses away from 920100) from the 920,xxx batch was an M lens used for testing. Should be interesting to see what 920100 goes for. It is currently at $760 (to a bidder in Japan)with two days to go....

Went for $1300 >whew< glad I'm not a collector, could get two nice current versions for that much.

I'm sure Jim Lager knows more about this than anyone else. I would consider this a very early production 50/2.0 Summicron M mount but not a prototype, for several reasons. It does not have any of the typical features of prototypes:

 

1) prototype SN - seven digit number starting with a bunch of zeroes {eg., 0000xxx) and/or

2) differences in the barrel features, scales, or engravings as compared with the regular production lens and/or

3) a newer lens in an older mount or called by the previous lens name (such as a Summicron called a Summitar*).

 

I think the high price bid on this lens ($ 1300) reflects the fact that it is one of the first production and has the "yellow glass".

I suspect that if it were really a prototype it would have been bid at least twice that figure if not more.

Eliot-

 

Another plausible explanation is that this lens was not a prototype of the Summicron OPTICAL design (that was the Summitar*) but a prototype of the Summicron's lens mount for the M3. The M3 was undergoing testing to establish it�s configuration at that time. Lens 920084 and 920100 can be conjectured to be two of an unknown number of alternative configurations. Apart form it�s funky two focusing lever design, 920084�s lens mount is engraved differently. Perhaps (since it so resembles production M lenses) 920100 was the successful design. Since the first batch of SM Summicrons was already in initial production, wouldn�t it make sense to just utilize a few of their optical units in prototype M mounts? Clearly 920084 is a prototype, so why not 920100? The alternative, that 920100 represents a part of a hitherto unknown production run of M Summicrons seems unlikely:

 

1- It is so far away from know later M production, all well above 1,000,000.

 

2- If it were part of an M Summicron production batch, that batch would have to be VERY small (which makes no sense) to have no other examples from this batch be previously seen by Jim Lager or Eliot Rosen.

 

3- In 1952-53 there were no M3�s in use by the public, while there were hundreds of thousands of SM bodies. Wouldn�t it make more sense to produce lenses for current cameras rather than for one a year or two in the future?

 

4- If such a small production batch was run, then how do you explain 920084, which is CLEARLY a prototype?

 

920100 may be a production SM lens that someone later switched to an M mount,

but I strongly doubt that it was a production M Summicron.

 

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Gee, do you really think an early Summicron with yellow glass is worth $1300?

 

You have me seriously considering putting my yellow glass early Summicron (921,654) up for sale on eBay to help finance that 28 Summicron I am lusting for!