E-1 at Two Weeks and Counting...

Discussion in 'Olympus' started by oculus, Jul 8, 2004.

  1. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Hi All, I hope, if we keep talking about E-1s here, we might attract some interest. Since I have had mine for probably 600 frames or so, I thought I'd make some notes for anyone interested, or considering one. 1. Foremost, it is Oly down deep: well made, comfortable, familiar and reassuring to operate. If you thought they were solid before, wait till you close a cover or turn a knob on this magnesium alloy, gasketed "splash/dust" resisitant body. It's thoroughly "thunk." 2. Initially, I had resolution concerns with it, but now, after advice from others in the DP Review Forum, I have cranked up the in- cam sharpening to +3 (out of 5) and it has come around nicely. This may sound harsh, but it is apparently what Oly had in mind when they recently updated the firmware...which leads me to my next point. 3. I thought it very cool to download an upgrade! On my first night with it, I downloaded upgrades for the Viewer Software, two firmware upgrades for the camera, and, get this: one firmware upgrade for each of my LENSES. That last is worth repeating: firmware upgrades for LENSES! Wow. 4. It is FAST and efficient. It really is like shooting film, and the standard battery pack seems to be good forever. This last point is significant, but probably not unique to Oly; everybodies' batteries seem to be lasting a lot longer than even a couple of years ago. 5. After hefting the lenses on a friend's new D70, I am beginning to appreciate the four-thirds design. Handling the 50-200 is like handling a 135, as opposed to the 400 equivalent that it is. Plus, being arithmatically deficient, 2x equivalents are a lot easier to figure than 1.6 or whatever. And the ergonomics are MUCH nicer. 6. I love having the Nikonians and Canoneers steal side glances at it at press events. They don't dare ask...pity. Since I bought it, I read that Oly reduced their official prices in May to $1499 for the body and similarly for the lenses. Plus, they are offering a variable rebate on all lenses through the end of this month. In sum, now, for under $2000, you should be able to secure what would have cost much more near $3000, just last Christmas. And last, I should mention that the new Lexar 1 gig 80X WA CFC is a screamer. You really don't notice writing anymore. In sum, it is lightyears ahead of my C2500L, which I guess I shall now offer for sale; and even decades ahead of the E-10 we have at work. If you're the least bit interested, I urge you to look carefully, especially before the end of the month. You should be able to get an outfit for about $1700 (minus $50-100 lens rebates) from several online, authorized dealers. Feel free to pose any specific concerns. Cheers, Ray Hull
    008mu9-18693284.jpg
     
  2. ONY, I sell E-1s and I really like my Oly rep and want to see food on his table. Further, the E-1 has swell ergonomics and optics.

    That having been said, the E-1 has a dinky, low-megapixel sensor. The focus speed on the lenses is so-so. And of course Oly dropped the prices on the system- the body, lenses and flashes were absurdly overpriced.

    I shoot Nikon, but I work part-time for a camera store and sell pretty much all the DSLRs- so I don't get into the this-or-that-brand-sucks wars. I look forward to Olympus following up the E-1 with some great DSLRs with prices, resolution and features that have something to do with the reality of the marketplace.
     
  3. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Nothing personal Eric, but what is your point? You fault them for high offering prices, and then for reducing them. Last I noticed, to get the "features" you think Oly lacks (e.g. magnesium body, water and dust resistance) in a Nikon or a Canon, you had to double my price tag--old or new. And at what price do they offer "dinky" sensor cleaning?

    You must be one of those wall mural shooters. I don't need any more than 5.5 megapixels/14 Meg files for my point and shoot work, and neither do pros who seem to know what they are doing with the E-1 and get up to 16x24 frames. The PJs I encounter, dragging around those 8, 11, 14 mp things sure are wasting energy for low-res newspaper work.

    But then, my Rolleis and Leica come into play when I have to work in your mural range.

    Happy shooting...

    Ray Hull
     
  4. I've had my E-1 since January, and it could not be a more positive experience.
    No dust spots yet, we have had 2 meaningful firmware upgrades already, the lens quality continues to impress me, the 11-22 in particular is outstanding among wide zooms, and it seems a lot more photographers have embraced the system as an alternative.
    If Olympus sticks to their lens "roadmap", that will tell us more about the future of this system than all the opinions we've see on the various camera web forums combined.
     
  5. I don't fault Oly for dropping its prices from insane to absurd. Oly had to drop prices because sales of the E-1 system were awful. I do fault Oly for bringing out a small-sensored, 5MP DSLR at a time when other companies were bringing out larger-chipped 6MP DSLRs. Not only does the E-1 have less inherent resolution and more noise because of its tiny chip, it also has less resolution being a 5MP camera rather than a 6MP camera. Given the choice between paying $1,500 for a Nikon D100 with mediocre resolution and crappy build quality and paying $1,500 for an E-1 with lousy resolution, but superior body construction, I gotta go with the Nikon. Image quality matters most. I've had ZERO dust probelms with my D100s. The D100 is plasticy, has a terrible finder and a slow 1/125th flash sync speed- but I'm not retouching dust.
    008nOZ-18706084.JPG
     
  6. Thanks for the insight Ray. I'm seriously considering one of
    these for a near-term purchase (along with a 10D and D70, I
    might add.) I've long been a fan Oly's design aesthetic, from the
    OM1 to the Stylus. Also, the E-1's build quality is certainly a step
    above the Canon and 2 steps above the Nikon.

    I have nagging image quality doubts, however. I also have a
    nagging doubt that my nagging doubts are a result of prejudiced
    reviewers and marketing.

    Made any big prints yet? How is the AF speed and accuracy?
     
  7. I've had my E-1 since February, and I find I love it more every time I break it out. The ergonomics, size, image quality, and the very solid feel are just what I wanted in a camera. This camera was quite an investment for me, I'm an E5 in the Navy so I don't make a lot of cash, but I feel it was deffinitly worth it.

    I'm shooting at a level where I really take advantage of all the features the E-1 offers, and I've started a business on the side to help support my photographic habit. I print with a Canon i9900 printer on Ilford papers and the quality really impresses people. To give you an idea of what I shoot: I've done night shots of Waikiki beach, 4th of July fireworks over Pearl Harbor, lanscape shots of the Hawaiian islands, flowers, birds, etc at sizes up to 13x19" without quality issues. I even took a shot I made for a Marine unit over to the imaging center where we printed it on the big machines at wall size, and it still looked good.

    One of the Photoshop CS books I have suggested a trick I use for making all of my big prints, which basically involves upsizing in 10% increments, I can give you guys the low down on that and the name of the book if your interested. I don't know why the trick works as well as it does, and neither did the author, but it does. Anyway, I know some people think that a bigger sensor must be better, but my
    E-1 does the job, and does it well.

    Thats my humble opinion.

    Later guys, Nathan Hahn
     
  8. I am tired of arguments saying a small no of pixels is enough, and more is of no use. If more pixels is not on the expense of quality (noise etc), isn't it better? At least I can have more freedom in chopping my photos to suit my need and do not have to worry about quality of prints.
     
  9. "do fault Oly for small-sensored.... E-1...tiny chip....also has less resolution... E-1 with lousy resolution... Image quality matters most."


    Yes image quality does matter most, and resolution is only one part of it.


    The "tiny chip" isn't really much smaller at all.


    Comparing the Kodak KAF-5101CE 4/3 sensor to say the APS sized sensor of the 10D, we see that the Canon CMOS has a size advantage of only 1.6mm in the verticle dimension, and 4.7mm in the horizontal. So most of the size differential in comparison to APS sized sensors is due to the aspect ratio, 4/3 vs 3/2.


    Compared to the current APS sized sensors the Kodak 4/3 sensor has much more resistance to blowing the highlights, retains highlight detail much better, has far more accurate color due to superior auto white balance of the E-1, and in it's rated ISO 100-800 range noise isn't a problem at all and certainly cleans up very easily with processing like NeatImage. Much more easily than trying to adjust color after the fact, one reason many users have switched to the Olympus, to decrease post processing time. The accurate metering of the E-1 compliments the performance of the Kodak sensor very well.


    Edwin
     
  10. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Edwin,
    Of course you are so right. The above "size is everything" blather is just that. You'll note, despite his "expertise" and fascination with MP count, that there is no mention of Kodak or Sinar or any of the REAL big MP machines.

    Just another Nikon guy reassuring himself that he's wearing the right label. Better watch out though, in the "pro" market, Canon is eating their lunch.

    Cheers,
    Ray Hull
     
  11. Oculus (a whispering campaigner, perhaps?) wrote
    I thought it very cool to download an upgrade! On my first night with it, I downloaded upgrades for the Viewer Software, two firmware upgrades for the camera, and, get this: one firmware upgrade for each of my LENSES.
    It would be even cooler if the thing didn't need an upgrade. And even less cool for those of us who don't happen to possess a copy of Microsoft's latest Windows. The dpreview site, and the pages on the Olympus site it points to, give the impression that the upgrade is done by running a propram supplied by Olympus that runs only under XP. What if the poor sod trying to use the camera has a Macintosh or Linux machine? (The only machine I have with USB 2 on it is a laptop running Linux.)
    I thought the accepted way of doing this was to plop a file on the flash card - any modern OS can do that - and tell the camera to flash from it.
    If the E1 really is tied to XP, its lifetime is that of Microsoft's support commitment for Windows, That is something reasonable like 5-7 years for self-support via downloads. But 5 years is not an acceptable life for a camera. I remind everyone that today's binaries will probably not run in 5 years' time, whatever OS you choose.
     
  12. Frank, I can assure you with total certainty that the upgrade works great on a Mac through firewire.


    I used to be a Linux guy myself (I was a big fan of the Enlightenment window manager), but it just never was the thing for digital photography, they might have the color management thing down now, but didn't when I used it.


    I've been using SLRs since 1973, and I'm a huge fan of Nikon, (I still have every piece of Nikon equipment I ever bought), and I was going to buy the D2h and some AF lens, but I really didn't need that much camera but I did "need" weather sealing. The E-1 with it's D2h like weather sealing and construction, as well as more resolution was perfect for me. Like everyone else, I am anxious to see the D2x, I doubt I'll buy one, but you never know.

    Edwin
     
  13. Frank, I use only Mac computers. I have an aging 500 Mhz G4 Powerbook, and an 800
    Mhz 17" iMac, both running OSX 10.3.4. I dont even use internet Explorer, I use a Mac
    program called Safari. The E-1 doesn't mind my Mac enviroment at all, and several Mac
    programs such as iPhoto are plug and play with the E-1 (not that I use anything but
    Photoshop CS but I have tried them). I also completed the updates without any issues. I'm
    not trying to say one is better than the other (Win vs. Mac) because I wouldn't touch that
    issue if my life depended on it. I'm only saying that in MY experience the E-1 and Mac
    machines/software work well together.

    Later,
    Nathan Hahn
     
  14. Edwin, you are quite right, and in fact if I look at the download page on the English-language section of the Japanese site here they support Windows 2000 and Mac Panther.
    But the way they have you update the firmware is to first upgrade a utility program on the Windows/Mac machine, and then run that to upgrade the firmware in the camera. I find this unacceptable in a couple of ways:
    • You have to be online with an account privileged enough to alter software on your computer, furthermore allowing an untrusted program (the Olympus software itself) to do that.
    • You have to have an unrelated piece of equipment, viz. a computer with a particular piece of software on it, to have a manufacturing defect in you camera fixed. A camera system costs roughly what a small car does, and General Motors doesn't tell me I have to own Windows/Macintosh or whatever to get the latest engine control firmware. Instead, it's probably put there when next I get the car serviced. If the camera needs repair to its firmware, then it ought to be available free at the dealer by dropping it off for the day.
    Finally, I note that Linux is not supported. This isn't so much a concern to me because I want to use Linux - I could put a USB card in the Windows 2000 machine, and Linux's problems with colour management are not quite solved yet - but because it means possible driver problems down the track should the E-1 not prove as popular as perhaps it deserves to. It has happened time and time again with computer peripherals which use undocumented non-standard protocols become doorstops.
    Personally, I will not buy a camera which is not supported on all three platforms, with sample implementations (preferably Linux ones) available in open source for the camera's protocol and RAW format. If the camera companies think their software offerings are adding value, they're kidding themselves.
     
  15. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Oh Frank Oddsocks, You've caught me "campaigning" all right--trying to get some discussion of a new Olympus camera in the Olympus cameras room on this site.

    Just what OS is it you're campainging for on this camera/photo site?

    Happy clicking.
    Ray Hull
     
  16. "But the way they have you update the firmware is to first upgrade a utility program on the Windows/Mac machine"
    The program is the imaging software that comes with the camera for Windows or Mac.

    "You have to have an unrelated piece of equipment, viz. a computer with a particular piece of software on it"

    How many people are going to drop 2 grand on a digital camera and not use it with a computer. Admittedly, the E-1 is one camera you can sucessfully print right off the CF card, but not many users will forgo the computer.

    "to have a manufacturing defect in you camera fixed"
    "If the camera needs repair to its firmware"

    There is no manufacturing defect to fix (unlike many other DSLR bodies that have been released), and the firmware upgrades are not repairs, but "upgrades".

    "Linux's problems with colour management are not quite solved yet"

    That is unfortunate, but I feel for uses like digital photography Linux will only get farther and farther behind. Heck, I was never even able to get the scanner access to work reliably, but I had no interest in becoming a Linux expert, just a user. I even ran a dual boot Linux-Windows machine and used Linux for all I could, but Windows and Mac just got better and better.
    Can Linux now read NFTS partitions?
     
  17. Ray, have you gotten the 11-22 Zuiko?

    This is a lens you just have to have.

    Edwin
     
  18. And then there is the Olympus committment question. To 4/3 and to the E series itself. I (like ALL others) have been burned once. Regards
     
  19. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Edwin, No I have not, however that is next on my list. If you have it, I'd appreciate your comment. I have second thoughts, as it is so near to the 14-54, but I saw a comparo of full wide vs full wide on DP Review, and it obviously picks up another 20% or so. But for $700, the 14-54 can surely make do for the moment. I may jump before the rebate runs out, but otherwise, not in a real hurry.

    I do my landscapes, architecture, etc. with Rolleiflex 6003 and 40mm Distagon or 55 PCS. Also have fisheyes and wides for my 35s.

    Ray
     
  20. Ray, if the 11-22 is indicative of the coming "pro" zooms from Olympus, we're in fine shape. Sharpness is excellent, better than the 14-54 at equivalent focal lengths, distortion at the wide end is surprisingly low, you really have to look hard to find CA cause it's usually not there at all, contrast and color are spot on, and the useability factor of a 11-22 zoom is pretty good. Edwin
    008oms-18731284.jpg
     
  21. Ray, as I've repeatedly mentioned, Nikon and I aren't going steady. If all my Nikon stuff was stolen tomorrow, I'd buy Canon.

    If I shot photos in a studio, I might well buy one of the Kodak FF DSLRs. I don't shoot in a studio, I have customers with DCS-14ns and I've been put off by the camera's color rendition outdoors.

    MF and LF cameras with digital backs are simply too little bang for huge bucks- at least for my purposes. If I know I'm going to enlarge to 11x14 or more, I'll shoot Mamiya 7IIs and scan the negs.

    You are correct to recognize there is a "'pro' market" and then there is the Olympus E-1. I don't know anyone who would buy an E-1 to shoot professionally.

    Another poster alluded to being burned and I'll put a finer point on his remarks. The Oly E-1 promises to be part of a system- but is currently part of a limited grouping of overpriced pieces.

    The last "system" Oly brought to market was the 35mm autofocus system in 1986 (Oly OM 77/707). Like the E-1, the 77/707 was odd, overpriced and was not particularly well-supported by Olympus. After a few years, Oly dumped the system and left a lot of loyal Oly customers screwed. Frankly, I wouldn't buy into any new Oly system for several years until I was sure Olympus was not going to fold its tent due to low sales numbers.
     
  22. Hi Ray. I bought an E1!!! Thought you would like to know. It won't be here until next week, but I'll post a few beach shots as soon as I get it. You and your insights have proven to be very helpful. Espcically since we're both Leica shooters! By the way the sharpening definitely helped that photo, I didn't see any of the moire that DPreview made such a fuss about.
     
  23. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Congrats John, but I'd rather you not put it all on me! Seriously, I think you'll be pleased. I took some time yesterday to do some A/B tripod shots, right in the back yard, of a stone wall and a new section of board fence, mostly in shade, but with slashes of early afernoon sun. All I can say is that my previous concerns about mushiness apparently can be attributed directly to camera shake. These were dead-on, required only unsharp mask processing (in Raw, tiff, SHQ jpg) because I am conservative in my in-camera +3 setting. The grain of the board fence slats is equally impressive, especially given brilliant sun in foreground, but with the fence shaded. Will be interested in your experimentation, but please, don't overexpose it to salt air...no matter how well sealed! Cheers, Ray
    008pbQ-18752884.jpg
     
  24. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    My responses to previously unanswered comments:

    Chris Carroll: I find the AF very fast and extremely accurate. The only hunting I encountered was trying to shoot the Metropolitan (nee Goodyear) blimp as he motored overhead with my right-out-of-the-box 50-200 mounted, without any upgrades. I did not have AF set to Continuous, so I switched it off, and successfully grabbed his departure. (Interestingly: "manual" by-wire focus is limited to maybe 40 degrees of ring rotation, tops)

    Let's put it this way: I don't see how it could be any faster, and with the 1.2 firmware upgrade, you now can choose left, right, center areas of the screen markings for concentration. I do plan to buy the owner-installable grid focus screen, just because I worry about horizons...a lot. On the Leica Forum, I'm known as the Perspective Police ;->

    John Kissane: You're throwing a pretty wide net there by saying "ALL others burned.." (your emphasis). For the record, I have used Oly digital equipment since my first foray into it with a C-2500L, 5 years ago. And far from being "burned" by the corporation, I find their Factory Tech service superb, and will note that they are still selling scientific/health kit C-2500 Ls on their own auction site, 5+ years after intro.

    So, I don't know what generation you are describing, but not unlike somebody who's bought anything high tech in the past decade, be prepared, obsolescence happens...but if its obsolescence due to market hesitancy to adopt clearly improved standards over the ordinary, I have no quarrel at being left behind, since I think I do more research and am more value-conscious than the average "market" guy. If it's quality, I usually feel as though I have gotten my money's worth.
    Cheers,
    Ray Hull
     
  25. I am looking with great interest at the Olympus system. Thanks for the comments. There have been little enough informed user comments on the system, especially here on photo.net. I think it is a leap of faith to get into any new system. I can imagine a bank exec,Stanley Steamer owner, snorting to young Henry Ford: "A bare bones car like that 4 cylinder model T? How do expect to sell it without an installed user base of people who know how to drive, and are ready to add on a garage to their homes. Has no luggage room on the roof. And no mechanics out there to fix them. Never catch on." I exaggerate way much,but leave us recall that Olympus had a successful run with the innovative OM serie, the Pen series,and the very nice C series. The decision to go with this form factor four thirds is contoversial. And the decision to re enter the market against the big two is controversial. (On the other hand, I like to follow a different road,bought Canon F-1 when Nikon F was the big guy in 1971.) And I love the feel of that body and the quality of the lens. For two grand,it is competitive in its kit form,in my eyes,though not a throwaway purchase of course. I mean when one looks at Canon high end glass vs the 15-54 Zuiko lens everybody raves about. Now,Eric has a point,its not always smart to buy model 1. There are always bugs in the first year. But I am tempted. Really tempted. A solid piece of gear that feels just great. Wish I could rent one for a week. GS
     
  26. PS. I am not sure that it has been established that the E-1 has "lousy resolution." Nor that professionals shun the camera. I will concede that the camera has not had the best press on the digital review sites. But it is not panned,just not given a lot of enthusiasm for the image quality against comparables. That in itself is not conclusive. I look to user evaluations like this as much as anything. And the firmware upgrade thing is fine with me. As long at it works. So waiting a little while is also a good strategy with a new product.
     
  27. Ray, the ALL reference was to all OM users who were left holding the bag. As one other contributor referenced the OM series had a good run. Well that's my point. We were still running while Oly quit. I luv all makers, to each his own. Just trying to point out some past facts that people can use. Regards
     
  28. Some more thoughts. I still use the OM's, lend them to the family etc. They are great. I also bought the E-10 for my entry into digital. But, frankly will not jump into the E-1 at this point.
     
  29. John Kissane wrote: "We were still running while Oly quit."

    The OM users would have needed to support Olympus by buying _new_ OM equipment in sufficient quantities. Olympus has made no money from the used market purchases indicating that the market was/is well saturated. From some anecdotal serial numbers, I estimate that in the 1998 to 2002 5-year period, less than a total of 12,000 OM-4Ti's have been produced and marketed (sold?) _worldwide_, i.e. 200 units/month (and the OM-3Ti has probably a total production run for the 1994 to 2002 9-year period of 5000 samples).
     
  30. Konrad, I do not dispute your figures, just the logic. There was no reason to continue buying. While the rest of the SLR community contiued advances and innovation Olympus did not. That why you can't blame it on lack of sales. And as far as I remember it was, in fact, a basic decision by Olympus BEFORE you sales statistics. Regards
     
  31. Hi John,

    I thought that surely Konrad's blaming of the customer for poor OM system sales was tongue-in-cheek. I don't think there's much of a market for new cameras with 70's and 80's technology at exorbitant prices and most of that market probably goes to Leica and Hasselblad anyway.

    Later,
    Johnny
     
  32. This gets to be interesting. Ray Hull, you properly post this in the Olympus Forum which,I submit has become really a de facto Olympus OM user forum....85%anyway... I follow the PN Canon FD forum and I rarely see anyone getting annoyed much lately at Canon for changing its lens mount in 1986. Generational shift I think. Has to happen. And shortly after 1996 Canon stopped servicing all of its FD cameras and lenses with the sole exception of the pro F-1N,bad news for some,but not fatal. Parts availability became catch as catch can,but a cottage industry thrives. Canon never was exculpated by generational change but it softened. The cameras still work,and work well. (eBay makes everything available to all,even parts for Model A Fords,right?) Some of us still use FD cameras,love them,and feel no need for autofocus. I believe that Olympus, a small fry compared to Canon, has not committed any sin that would lead me to expect them to not support the new E-1 standard. But I won't bet a colonoscopic exam with an Oly scope that we wont get the shaft. Flexible shaft that is:) Meanwhile, the four thirds website shows enough happy camper work,to keep me interested. I can wait,and use the C 5050 and my other gear for a few more months. Let some other people like you Ray be the path breakers. And thanks for the Lewis and Clark job of y'all. PS To Nathan Hahn: If you are stationed anywhere near Pearl Harbor,let me know as I live in Central Oahu. I would like to talk to you face to face about your E-1 experiences if possible. Aloha,Gerry
     
  33. Gerry, I'm a Submariner and I do happen to work on Pearl Harbor. In fact, I live in Navy
    housing near the airport. I'd be glad to talk to you some time, send me an email:
    HahnLabs@hawaii.rr.com

    Aloha, Nathan Hahn
     
  34. Once again, it appears there are a lot of nit-pickers who have not really tried the E-1
    but pass comment about everything they know (or don't know) about it.

    According to posts on every forum on the 'net, anyone who has actually tried an E-1
    is instantly smitten with its quality. Those who have actually used it and compared
    the images with anything in the same price range as Canon or Nikon are sure to
    purchase the camera. It's image quality is hands-down superior right out of the
    camera: lenses, white balance, colour, dynamic range. The "smaller" sensor is only 7%
    smaller than the 6MP, but the image quality is significantly better and is obvious to
    everyone who has actually done a real comparison - not the bench comparison like
    on the review sites.

    The number of Canon & Nikon DSLR users that have switched to the E-1 is
    astounding for a variety of reasons which boil down to image quality, build quality
    and lens quality.

    As well, anyone who does any wide-angle photography instantly recognises the
    Digital-Zuiko lenses are superior in sharpness and lack of distortion compared to any
    of the current Canon and Nikon lenses and the Zuiko lenses are lower in cost (since
    they are the equivalent of the "pro" glass from Canon & Nikon) and are 1/2 to 1/3 the
    weight.

    Again, anyone who has done an in-hand comparison would recognise this right off
    the top.

    Take a read of this link which summarises the differences between DSLRs at the same
    price point: http://homepage.mac.com/luxborealis/words/whye1.html. Before you
    buy a DSLR, get an E-1 in your hands and the photos on your computer.
     
  35. Good points by Terry McDonald. Your opinion is motivating. Get hands on one to shoot is not likely until they become a rental item, and that is the vicious circle of new system products. So it is an article of faith for those of us who have no experience with the Olympus OM system.(But admire the C series products a whole lot) On that subject,maybe I can induce you to post a few samples in this thread,largish within the management's limits for links if possible. (I have mysterious trouble with your web page on my Netscape browser.) With Netscape, I follow a different drummer,but I got used to it.Anyway, Your decision checklist makes a lot of sense to this prospective buyer. One body and one zoom for this kid can serve for what is a not so wicked price vis a vis the competition. GS
     
  36. Terry said "Once again, it appears there are a lot of nit-pickers who have not really tried the E-1 but pass comment about everything they know (or don't know) about it.

    Terry can you point me to one nit-picker who has critized the E-1 (repeat the E-1 not Olympus) who has not used it. Regards
     
  37. I got to hold an E-1 today at a local camera shop and my initial impression was BIG. Compared to my OM4T the E-1 seemed huge. This is the same feeling I got when handling Canon's 10D. I did not experience the size difference I expected. Is the E-1 really significantly smaller than its competition?
     
  38. What system camera *doesn't* seem big next to an OM-series camera, Tim? Other than a Leica rangefinder? ;>

    Even my C-3040Z P&S digicam seems bulky compared with my OM-1 because of the palm swell grip that houses four AA batteries.
     
  39. John,John, good fellow,you must be kidding or being half serious. It is damn with faint praise thing by observers who read the dpreview et al gurus. When I first brought up the E-1 months and months ago I was blasted verbally by a mr double dot Z personage for even contemplating buying a new untried E-1 system with a small allegedly fatally "noisy" sensor and-let's recall-ah yes, "no installed user base of people" meaning not a Canon and not a Nikon. More recently, Eric Friedemann,a really nice guy,called the Olympus E-1 system still absurdly and obscenely overpriced and wanting in comparison to the competition. The E-1 has been dismissed regularly in any discussion of the top digital cameras. A grudging nod to its dust remover is sometimes slipped in to comments. The lenses get barely a nod of approval,and the claims about digital ray path are routinely poo pooed vis a vis Canon lens compatibility with its CMOS sensors. The affiliation with Kodak is almost a guilt by association from what I read..I have lost count,because they planted a doubt in my liberal mind,even.. Bob Atkins said a review of camera on PhotoNet was forthcoming and that was 4 months ago. Noone volunteered. Seriously, we got reviews of all kinds of lesser offerings from HP and Kodak and whatall,and the E-1 is like the black sheep at the family reunion at times,just at times,new kid on the block,but not so new anymore. It may be that the failure of Olympus's partners in crime to get on the wagon,but there is something close to prejudice on photonet about anything non Canon,non Nikon,or not Leica. I could be wrong of course.
     
  40. It could be that no-one who has an E-1 has volunteered to review it. Send me one for a month and I'll promise to shoot 10,000 frames and post a thorough review (from a rangefinder lover's perspective, of course).

    My guess is if you wrote it Brian would publish it.
     
  41. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Gerry and Terry,
    Ya know, I ride a Moto Guzzi, and while many don't know what that is, take my word for it, it's a decent bike; I call it a BMW with garlic. Anyway the point of my story is I finally gave up on the Guzzi Owners Club, because all those guys wanted to talk about was their Ambassadors and California Police bikes that hadn't been made in 20 years.

    <P>My bottom line is: I know what I bought, I know why I liked it, I know the history too, but am not interested in reliving it, much less having some guy riding 20 year old machinery tell me how good mine could be if they'd only stuck with points and condensors....

    <P>I can take it for only so long; then I go away. Doesn't really matter to me. I just try to be helpful with first-hand observations to anyone who is AFFIRMATIVELY interested. All the rest can stay in the weeds.

    <P>Cheers,
    Ray
    <P>
    <img src=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2541612-md.jpg>
     
  42. Incidentally Ray, was interested in your remark about "get an outfit for about $1700.00 minus rebate from several online authorized dealers." Really? I polled the usual dealer suspects and the kit with the 14-54 comes to $1950.00 plus S and H from B and H and J and R and one other. Which interests me as prospective purchaser,(soon I think, not this month as I pay off big buck trip to National Stereoscopic Association Convention. Other photo passion.) The Nikon cabal,bless them, may be like the debunkers of your bike. Olympus system users may well be a cultivated minority for a while. Wasnt the OM bunch such? Anyway,good thread started, Occulus. The company and the system have much going. And may be ahead of the pack in engineering concept and execution from what I have tried at the NEX counter including a shot or two with my CF card.Good feel,solid,excellent skin tones. Lens sparkles,lighter than expected.What you said above. No user-group could dissuade but might persuade. Cheers and salutations,Gerry
     
  43. I found this interactive demo on the European Pro site gateway. It allows a full marvelously conceived demo of the camera in virtual display. Just wonderful. Here it is:http://www.olympus-pro.com/index.eu.en.html (Sorry no blue link today,but I am having paragraph trouble when I type in HTML on Netscape browser and can't figure out my problem so far)... Aloha once more,GS
     
  44. ky2

    ky2

    Gerry-- Im eyeing that blacksheep, you already know that ;) Anyway, Cameta Camera (cametacamera.com) has the kit listed for $1599 (-$50 rebate); or $2450 with the 50-200, 14-54 lenses (-$150 rebate) How's that for a deal?
     
  45. Gerry: B&H has the E1 kit with 14-54 lense for $1799.00 and S&H should not be much more than $20.00.
     
  46. Raymond, why did you have to tell me that!!!. Auwe, and oy,now I am probably going to have to raid my credit union account. I want one for sure. Another price reduction so soon is odd though. And no indication that an E-1n model is soon to be announced. Hmm,I know I am a born skeptic. Yet the price of art is more than paintbrushes and canvas in this tech world. This is killing my forbearance in money management. That is a drop of about 4 to 5 bills from intro of the E-1 system just 8 months ago. Yet,its reaallll tempting...
     
  47. (Aside note to you Ray, shipping to our fair state is rarely ever just 20.00 from the private carriers. You see offers that say FREE shipping on big orders,and then ant size type that adds " to 48 contiguous states only." Thirty bucks maybe,which is not bad when you think about all that water :)). Oh gosh,another feast of decisions today.
     
  48. Another postscript to my comment about waiting for the next issue of this camera,which,noone doubts is inevitable. My philosophy on this. None of you are old enough to recall the introdction of the Canon F-1 original in 1970. I was there. And I bought one,original,in 1971 with its kit 50mm 1.4 lens. Canon introduced a bunch of yummi system accessories,all well thought out. Bob Reynolds,my Nikon partner in crime laughed at me,since Nikon had the only really serious system camera used by pros in our country. Recall,that Nikon FTN was a detachable top and bottom machine,motor,prism, the works. Canon,much larger than Nikon,had stayed low key in SLRs. For some time they were all distrubed by Bell and Howell. And then Flash,Zam,out comes the F-1. So I buy it and enjoy 20 years of reliable camera. And only a tiny crack in the skylight illuminator window to call a QC defect (A Nikon salesman said " Looks like you just got a lemon.".Hah. It's a game. My conclusion is like Terry's. 1) If one loves the feel of a camera and its lenses,then one will use it. 2) If one respects the commitment and bona fides of the company, you can count on support. If I believed Olympus was going back to medical endoscopes and leave cameras then I would hesitate. Today,after consultation with my Chief of Naval Operations at home I think I have to order a kit. (Damn the torpedoes,I am going to the Head :).) And by the way, Olympus has crafted its C series so that I have little to quibble about with SHQ JPEGS for MY usage. This is a teeny weeny crop from my Olympus C5050, one tough built little good selling machine,honed from earlier C models,fine lens etc,just not an SLR. Chunky,but very nice for screwing with in the Portland terminal boarding area.So to Yaron et al, Be well,prune juice and vodka daily,aloha, Gerry
     
  49. Someone said that the 5 megapixel digital cameras give embarassingly good results. I am still delighted with some very small crops of SHQ JPEG on a COSTCO cheap SanDisk 256 CF. As to add on software,there is where we need this kind of thread to tip off the digital ins and outs. All is fair if the final image is what you seek,methinks.
     
  50. This and the other related thread,the MyFourThirds web site, Oly Euro interactive demo (brilliant piece of advert),charged me up to a decision and did the job,with the price cut, of selling me my first digital autofocus SLR. Jokester in the family likened spending even tht on a camera = "like shoving your member into a pencil sharpener." Not quite.:) Actually, with on-line ordering its TOO bloody easy. Will return with observations, after two weeks post delivery next week. Re shipping comment: B and H air shipping comes to 53.00,and(little known) delivery is 3 days for the "2 day" mode to here.
    As we like to say- paradise is always a little costlier. Nathan knows,wink,wink. Gerry
     
  51. I had held,played with, and gave a quick store test around Xmas at the military retail store,(which got a big shipment,didn't sell any,and sent the lot back to Olympus I was told. No kit price,so I passed thogh intrigued) It took the latest corporate price reduction to move me off the stump. Terry McDonald's analysis of pros and cons and comparisons is a persuasive and solid case for an underappreciated instrument,kind of breakthrough model. I won't have a personal recommendation report for a while,after B and H has it to me Monday,but am feeling OK about the decision,my first sizable investment in a new system in a racoons age.From the dpreview forum chat, I note that Yaron Kidron has made a similar move. Congratulations and good shooting,Yaron,fellow club member too.
     
  52. I've had my E-1 for about a month now. The sharpness and color rendition continue to amaze me. I spent a few years fighting the shift to digital, continuing to shoot film and scanning for the web. Digicams always seemed to produce images that had a video-like character that couldn't match the tonality of film. The Nikon D2h and E-1 images were among the first that had the right dynamic range for me. Having Nikon and Leica systems, I looked long and hard at the Nikon cameras, but I kept coming back to considering the E-1. I bought it at my local pro camera store where the D70 was considered the camera to buy. I've been producing a greater number of acceptable images than ever before with E-1. The 5 MP produce fine 8 x 10s. I believe those who say that 11x14s are fine as well.
    008yPW-18935184.jpg
     
  53. OCULUS New York

    OCULUS New York Still shooting, but posting less here.

    Great shot of mossy woods. That wouldn't happen to be along the Deerfield River at Cummington, MA would it? Looks almost familiar.

    Cheers,
    Ray Hull
     
  54. James,I like your E-1 Rome shots,including Colliseum. I appreciate your interest in the design effect of natural still lifes too,I do a little of that. I won't abandon film. As mainly a people shooter I enjoy showing my images right on the spot to subjects,a reason I have used a digicam so much lately. As for post processing vis a vis OLy, will offer my experience afterwards.(Color quality is most important thing for me) I like the opportunity to control things I let a lab do previously.And slides just aren't my thing. Thanks for entering the discussion.
     
  55. ky2

    ky2

    Extremely happy with mine-- what a beautifully crafted tool! as I noted before, the closest thing to my Fm3a (only gone digital). The body handles so well-- AF is actually very fast, and the colors are just wonderful. I tried my best to fault the 14-54 lens, subjecting it to possible moire and CA artifacts-- and NADA! Went with it just yesterday to the Gilroy Garlic Fest and had a great time :)
     
  56. ky2

    ky2

    [​IMG]

    Olympus E1, ISO 200, AWB, Cropped​
     
  57. Just got it a couple hours ago and reaffirms my view of the build and ergonomic value. Whether it likes to focus in low light is something I will have to decide. Or whether I may have to do manual in some light conditions. Colors are superb. Viewfinder view is sharp. And the lens is wunderbar. A lot of fun. This is the first of a few shots of my old standby model,and companion,who will work for food:). I didn't do any post processing on this,just resized it.
    008zD8-18953284.jpg
     
  58. Ray-

    The image I posted is in NY's Adirondacks, a bit to the west of Mass. It's right near Rocky Falls on the trail out from the Loj near Lake Placid. This was the second summer we camped in the area.

    My wife was impressed with how much purple there was in the forest. She's a landscape painter and notices these things. When she saw that image, she immediately recognized that the E-1 and the Mac/Adobe PS/ Epson color management chain produced a print that was right on.

    I don't think that any of the other digicam's I've used (Canon A75, Oly D360) has been able to render vibrant but accurate color. I can give up Velvia with the E-1 if I bump the E-1's color saturation setting up a notch from default.
     
  59. Vibrant and accurate color,yes, is a wonderful experience from this Olympus camera. I am very pleased with my early test shots. Even under midday open shade of a usually fast moving target. Flash fill with the FL 20 was less successful so far,wonder what I need to learn more of that differs from the C5050. (This is a very basic flash unit with few options,but so De-Lightfully small.
    0090Nv-18976884.jpg
     
  60. In trying to put all functions on the body,vis a vis menus and such, Olympus did make it vital to read the manual thoroughly and practice locating the various buttons.This is one you don't easily pick up and jump in to do exposure comp and change focus mode to spot off the bat. I was looking for the White Balance just a while ago. Carole,darn where the heck is the white balance,can you see it?. And,so she,smiling, says " Oh yeah, I saw that when you showed the camera to me two days ago,it is right here." Like having someone point to your reading glasses in your shirt pocket!..<>. But seriously,this is a heavy camera that balances well,yet has a different center of gravity than anything I have used,including Bronica SQ. I have been practicing,and it will take definite practice for me to be able to hand hold at 1/15. I recommend monopod routine,even as it becomes one extra piece of carbon fiber stick to carry. To which end,though, I bought Really Right Stuff's BOE-1 plate (nice owner, Joe Johnson) and it will be a part of the bottom plate ad infinitem. Olympus bottom plate has a ridged platform within which resides a rubber pad. With a registration pin hole( what in blue blazes would use such pin,maybe the battery booster?) and so RRS says he has a challenge to come up with fittings like L brackets for E-1 abristle with buttons...
    <>I re-read Michael Reichmann's mostly skeptical Luminous Landscape E-1 review and realize he was picky picky out of proportion. His pecks are too many to cover,but a gentle rebuttal would be in order. I may come back in a future posting on this thread re L.Landscape thing. I believe that there are aspirants,like myself,were on the brink of selecting the E system and need reassurance.Nothing is ever perfect.
    Olympus has to deal with the adhesive issue on its leatherette grips and I will hold them to that as will others I have e mailed. Still, EOS 5 had tougher breakdowns as I recall and sold tons of them..Until later on,GS
     
  61. Sorry no paragraph breaks above, will learn HTML coding when I have time.I forgot to add that the kit lens is impressive and has fine close focus capability for a zoom. And less distortion than my "everyday travel FD zoom that I am accustomed to mounting on my Canon T90s. Hats off to the optical team at Olympus Corp. A good value.
    009250-19007684.jpg
     
  62. Hi again. I take the fat manual to Starbucks and learn something daily. As someone mentioned in another thread, it is nice to combine auto and manual focus to get it spot on. And semi spot metering works for me the best so far.Nice also to 'assign' EV adjustment to a dial via a menu choice without having to press and hold a button. The thing shows ADVANCED intelligence behind it,by george. (Not exactly the black monolith, but very impressive design.) And the colors are still just great,zero retouching needed.<p> Only thing is the manual says little about how the FL 20 works with this model,and I am still deciding if it really cranks back the flash output level on TTL, and if fill flash works in anything but P mode of the camera. The FL 20 leaflet is most inadequate. Yes,I will get the FL 50,but not this week.Gerry (again)
     
  63. Gerry-

    I have the FL-20 for my C-5060. It is a nice little flash and is relatively powerful for its size. However, running on two AA batteries, it doesn't have the punch of the Metz 34-series we've corresponded about.

    The FL-50 is a superb flash; but pricey. You might look to see if you can find any discontinued FL-40s at a reduced price. I was told by Oly Tech that the FL-40 is fully compatable with the E-1.
     
  64. Thanks Eric.That is a possibility I will look into. I will hang in for now with the FL20 while I get used to "the Brick."(Well it feels that tough) As we both know,even Vivitar 285/ Metz 34CS- 2 will do OK in A mode on the Olympuses (I know how to compensate, do a rough computation of f stops,and with digital,there is the rapid feedback on overfill.)<p> I have seen the FL40,its fine, and if they were selling it for two bills or so, I would go for a new old stock one,but that is not going to be likely. Francis Camera here wants 350.00. The FL 50 is now down to $380.00 plus shipping to Hawaii,another 24.00. It is higher $ than the Canon's reduced pricing top of the line 550EX,but of course the OL accessories have got to come higher,mom and pop vs Walmart sort of thing,when we do the numbers. I had FL50 out for a week last December,and only returned it because it was not a mate for the 5050 (a very fine digicam I will still use a lot with the FL20 as fill).<p> An aside,Eric: I discovered that Sunpak makes a sturdy plastic and metal flash bracket I like a lot for almost all of these magnesium heavyweights. Bought S-pack used for twenty bucks in a shop here. Easy to lock the bottom piece to the pistol grip and it fits these big hands like a BB pistol. True,not over tne lens positioning,but at least off the shoe with the shoe to shoe adapter.Whoops,I ramble. Well,would you believe that Olympus just did another price cut!Substantial too. Buying market share and cutting losses I guess-?. My wife,ever philosophical,says "Well you had ownership for two weeks,and that is worth something." (Says he: What would I do without a sane member around here:)?)<p>And last,before I get to the day's events, I am learning to hold securely for slow shutter indoor shots,it takes iron grip and steel nerves. Until the 50mm f 2.0 comes into my life that is...<p> Shutter release button is exquisitely easy to manage,just perfecto. That is what is missing from the C5050 ilk,for those who seek the SLR "feel factor." The E-1 is not as chunky as a Bronica,but it is hefty enough with the 14-54 that a firm left hand grip,easy shutter,good balance, is vital to make natural light indoor shots wide open. And a monopod makes a world of difference if you are into that. Thus my quick seeking of an RRS plate for Miss E-ONE. Aloha nui loa.
     

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