DSLR better at low light than Powershot G10?

<p>I have a Canon Powershot G10. I shoot aperture priority. In low light situations such as cloudy day or even indoors where there seems to be enough light in my opinion, I see the camera shake icon. My aperture is usually somewhere around 3.5. I don’t like to increase ISO beyond 200 because I will get too much noise. I seem to get the shake icon often as the shutter speed is 1/60 or slower.<br>

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This got me to wondering if the T3i, 60D or 7D cameras with larger sensors than the G10 and the ability to raise the ISO higher without increasing noise have this problem at apertures of 3.5 or 4. As much as I would like to purchase a SLR, I don't want to buy one thinking that it will be better at low light and finding out otherwise.</p>

<p>Some of the lens that I would want would be the 70-200mm f/4, 17-40mm f/4, 24-105mm f/4. So, would I still have this problem? Or would the ability to increase ISO help in low light?</p>

 

<p>The larger sensor should help a bit, because you would be able to shoot at higher ISO values with less noise (but not NO noise).</p>

<p>There are other ways to combat camera shake. The classic one is camera support like a sturdy tripod.</p>

<p>Another one is Image Stabilization. I would guess that you're G10 probably has this feature. Are you using it? Some DSLR lenses have IS, and some do not.</p>

<p>Another solution is to use very fast lenses (f/2.8, f/2, or even f/1.4). However, these models are expensive. Make sure to add it all up before you trade in your G10.</p>

<p>Happy (shake free) shooting!</p>

 

<p>I have used a tripod but sometimes it is inconvenient because I like to shoot crouching or lying down.</p>

<p>Your noise performance will definitely increase with either three of those models. On my 7D, 1600 comes out pretty clean on a properly exposed photo. As Dan said, having faster lenses does help, but they can be pricey.</p>

<p>I thought that the 'shake' icon appeared when the camera activated the built in IS on the G series. Could be wrong, I've never owned one.</p>

<p>As to your question... Yes, a larger sensor (such as the APS-C sized ones in the t3i, 60D, and 7D, or the FF ones in 5D and 5D2) allows less noise as the ISO increases. In (virtually) ALL cases, as ISO increases, noise increases, but a larger sensor has larger pixels, which are less 'noisy' when pushed.<br>

You should be able to shoot at 400 or even 800 ISO comfortably on the current generation of APS-C sensors with little noticeable impact to your images. On a current FF sensor (5d2) , ISO3200 is about equivelant noise wise to test shots I've seen from the G10 @ iso200. <br>

That said, the t3i, 60D, and 7D all have virtually the same sensor, and are all pretty equally capable in 'low light'. Of course the magic from DSLRs doesn't come from the camera body, but the lenses you select. <em>If you are constantly shooting in low light, all those slow f4 lenses will be worth nada to you.</em> Instead look at primes (as Dan pointed out) and fast zooms. That extra stop or 2 of light the lens lets in can make a world of difference.</p>

<p>The G10 should easily go beyond ISO 200 without any problem. If you are already taking a picture at 1/60 and f/3, for example, going up to ISO 400 will give you a shutter speed of 1/125 or so... thereby causing that little blur icon to go away.</p>

<p>The blur icon is just an aid. It doesn't mean you can't take the picture at 1/60. Such a speed should not be a problem if you have image stabilization turned on. Just try to hold the camera as steady as you can. If your picture still comes out blurry because of camera shake, steady the camera in your hand against something solid, like a table, a wall, a post, a chair, a fence, ...etc. Also, sometimes it's perfectly appropriate to let the flash do its thing.</p>

<p>A DSLR is somewhat better at dealing with lower levels of light, but keep in mind that it probably won't be that much better if all you get to use on it is the slow zoom lens that came with the camera. Not slow zoom lenses are very expensive.</p>

<p>I've owned and loved the G10 and switched to a Rebel XS DSLR in the past. The noise improved quite a bit above ISO 200 but the kit lens wasn't as sharp as the G10. It's a trade-off unless you spend a lot more money on faster lenses (with larger light gathering elements) for the DSLR.</p>

<p>A good tripod should be adaptable for shooting low to the ground. It is has a telescoping center post, replace it with a flat plate. I can get my Gitzos down to lower than a foot off the ground (head and camera included) when I spread the legs out wide.</p>

<p>My 7D is excellent up to ISO 800 and very good at ISO 1600. When I moved up from my G9 I went straight to the 5D MkII, which has excellent high-ISO performance up to ISO 6400.</p>

<p>Remember that you don't want to underexpose in low light, so you should be shooting at +1EV unless there are important highlights that you don't want to wash out. Shoot in RAW and then pull the brightness down in RAW conversion. Pulling brightness up in RAW conversion adds noise dramatically.</p>

<p>The DSLRs that you mention allow both larger apertures and higher ISOs. You really need both when you start using +EV in low light.<br>

ISO 6400 with 5D MkII:</p>

<p><a title="Streeetch... by dcstep, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/5694726826_e652f4f504_z.jpg" alt="Streeetch..." width="427" height="640" /></a></p>

<p>Thanks for all the responses. I plan on keeping my G10, but would like to have a DSLR for flexibilty. Many times I wish I had more reach to take shots that I can't physically get closer to. My budget for a lens doesn't include the $5,000 + for the 200 or 300 mm fast glass, so I would be looking at f/4.<br>

So would f/4 on a larger sensor be an improvement over f/4 on the teeny sensor of G10? In other words, what the G10 sensor considers to be low light might not be considered low light to a larger sensor?<br>

Concerning the kit lens, I would probably just buy the camera body and choose a better zoom lens or a prime.</p>

<p>In my non-pro eyes, you are a good candidate for the upgrade. You should be fine with the new camera/lenses for your indoor need. It would only be challenging if your need includes indoor sports.<br>

Don't discount the 18-55 IS kit lens. With that, it is possible you may not even need some of your intended lenses.</p>

<p>One thing I really like about the G10 is changing the EV using the dial on top (just like my film SLR) while looking at the histogram in the LCD to see the effects.</p>

<p>Any of the DSLRs you listed with a 300/f4 and, optionally, a 1.4x TC, will cover lots and lots of ground for you. Canon also has a new 70-300mm variable aperture zoom lens that's getting good press. Not knowing exactly what you're reaching out for, the 70-200mm f/4L IS is a favorite lens of mine.</p>

<p>I'd go with the lower cost range unless you're going to shoot wildlife and/or professional sports. For kids sports, generally, you can make do with the lesser cost options.</p>

<p>Linda said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"One thing I really like about the G10 is changing the EV using the dial on top (just like my film SLR) while looking at the histogram in the LCD to see the effects."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Understanding that puts you ahead of about 80% of the DSLR users. If you haven't already, try shooting in RAW and pushing ISO up twice as high as you do now with your G10. Exposing to the right of the histogram greatly reduces noise, just don't blow out highlights. You might be surprised at the quality of some ISO 800 shots.</p>

<p>You'll still have a "reach" problem with the G10. The DSLR bodies are not too dear vs. the G10, but the lenses can really set you back, particularly when you start talking about "reach."</p>

You will have far more ability with the newer Dslr even as old as the xti will still shoot at very low light as far as Hand

shake it does very on the lens but the kit Lens 18-55 IS does a pretty good job at that ,and normally you can get

down to shutter speed of 40 I prefer a bit higher but it will work in dim light and if you have a external flash then you

can do about anything within reason

<blockquote>

<p>you should be shooting at +1EV</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I am going to guess that you meant an Exposure Compensation of +1. "+1 EV" means something entirely different.</p>

<p>Selection of an Exposure Compensation factor would depend a lot on the metering patten selected and the luminance of various regions of the frame. If the center is considerably darker than the edges of the frame and you shoot at +1, the edges will overexpose badly.</p>

<p>Dialing in +1 or any other EC amount as a general rule is probably not a good idea. If your subject is light in color, it might work. If it's really bright (snow), it's won't be enough compensation. If it's dark with bright highlights, you'll burn those highlights. Unless you understand the effect of EC on this particular shot, it's probably best avoided.</p>

<p>Oops, I did mean exposure compensation dial.<br>

"Selection of an Exposure Compensation factor would depend a lot on the metering patten selected and the luminance of various regions of the frame. If the center is considerably darker than the edges of the frame and you shoot at +1, the edges will overexpose badly."<br>

Okay Dan. I am using digital and can just delete those pics that don't look right because I didn't take the time to judge the luminance of the various regions in the frame just before I pressed the shutter button. And then, since I have 15mp to work with, I can just crop out the badly overexposed edges. Sorry, but I don't like to over think or over analyze camera settings. Besides I might be in trouble with the P&S police since I am using a point and shoot!</p>

<blockquote>

<p><br /> So would f/4 on a larger sensor be an improvement over f/4 on the teeny sensor of G10?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes.</p>

<p>The other consideration is what size do you print to? The larger the print the more noticeable the noise will be. If you enlarge to 100% on screen you'll certainly see the shortcomings of either camera, but if only making small prints you can get away with a fair bit of noise.</p>

<p>Linda, since your have a rough understanding of EV, turn on the "blinkies" that'll warn you during Preview if anything is blown out. Also have the histogram show in Preview. (I think the G10 allows for this). If you use RAW, then you'll want to expose up to the point of blow out. The subject is more important than the BG and when the subject is large in the frame the viewer will ignore the blowout of the BG.</p>

<p>Some tripods you can remove the centre column and it it back upside down so the mount is under the tripod. The camera is then upsidedown to but this way I can get my camera right on the ground so the flash mount on the camera is touching the ground.</p>

<p>It absolutely amazes me that no one has responded with the fact that the G10 has a dire reputation with regards to iso performance. Thats why Canon concretrated not oin the MP performance but the iso performance with the g11<br>

secondly, you mention not wishing to go over 200 iso, you are always better to expose correctly in low light that underexpose, which creates more noise </p>

<p>In general a full frame DSLR will have lower noise the a cropped sensor DSLR format. However I expect that most DSLR's will do better with noise than your G10 at a given ISO.</p>

Linda, my +1 EC comment was in response to a statement that I quoted from Stephen, but I hope that it will be helpful

to whoever reads it.

 

No one wants you to over think anything, but at the same time one should avoid following rules of thumb without some

thought. I have met new camera owners who shot in Manual exposure mode all the time become someone on the

Internet said that that was the right thing to do. So please be careful with advice such as "shoot at +1 EC" -

sometimes it might work, and many times it won't. An understanding of metering basics will help you to decide when

to use EC if at all. Personally, I can't recall the last time I used EC, so it's hardly a must do.

<p>Dan said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>" I can't recall the last time I used EC, so it's hardly a must do."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you're not using +EV much or most of the time, then you're not maximizing the dynamic range of your digital images. Of course, this only applies to shooting RAW, because you'll bring the level down in RAW conversion, but +EV will preserve much more shadow detail and subtle dark details. Just don't blow out the highlights.</p>

<p>Linda, you understand what you're doing better than some of your advisors here. Yes, don't blindly at +1EV, but if you're looking at the histogram and considering the scene, then you're doing it right.</p>

<p>G10 is a very good camera indeed but has very poor low light performance compared to recent Canon DSLR bodies, even of the lower end. The other route might be to get a used micro-fourthird body, still compact, and a good used fast prime. The price should be the same as a new Canon DSLR plus its kit lens.</p>