Drawbacks of the iMac 20-inch?

<p >I am hoping for an unbiased reply (good luck eh?) so here we go. A Dell Dimension 4550 is the only computer i ever owned. It is time to upgrade. I just finished 2 years of photo classes at local college where all they use are Macs. I have been leaning towards a Mac because of Vista rumors along with virus/bugs in the past with my Dell, but the more I read, the more it seems that I can get a nice PC for around the same price as Mac plus I a more familiar with a PC and many claim that Vista problems are mostly rumors. Here are 2 questions with maybe some additional questions after hopefully some replies:) I was looking at the iMac 20-inch for my next machine. It is hard to imagine that Mac packs everything in the frame/monitor. I was at Best Buy today and a very young Mac rep was there trying to answer my questions but i probably confused him:) From what I gather, the only hardware you can add to this machine is more memory.</p>

<p >Since I am not a computer whiz, what are the drawbacks of not having the big tower like most PC's have when it comes to adding to your machine later and what would you want to add later?<br>

Also, opinions on the 20'monitor from people that own one or did own one? <br /><br />Thanks in advance.John</p>

<p>You can add memory to the iMac. Other than that it is complete.</p>

<p>There have been numerious discussions on Mac vs Microsoft. You can spend time defraging M/S and doing various other maintenance or just have a computer that works.</p>

<p>Apple deletes the cache after a file is closed. M/S does not unless you reboot. This becomes a pain when you work with lots of pictures.</p>

<p>Choice of compatable low scanners and low end printers is much more limited with Mac. High end photo quality stuff is all compatable.</p>

<p>If you want a laser jet letter printer for Mac, HP P1006 is very nice. </p>

<p>One thing to consider is iMacs are all in one. You can not just buy a new monitor. My first Mac was a 1Mac24. To do again, I would get a tower and separate monitor. But my imac processes my photos very well and I am very happy with it.</p>

<p>Cheap monitors do not calibrate well, so you need a good monitor with M/S computer. Others can advise on the least expensive ones that work.</p>

<p>Well, you can add more memory, but with the current aluminum body construction, that can be very difficult to do by yourself. </p>

<p>The main advantages of a tower IMO come when you build the thing yourself. Usually buying something that's already assembled can get you pretty close to what you want, but oftentimes it will miss the niche you were hoping it would fill by just a benchmark or two.</p>

<p>If you decide to go ahead and build your own tower you can customize it to your exact specifications, and compromise as to what you really need/want/can afford. Getting the latest video card may not be as important to you as running a 64-bit operating system with 8GB+ of RAM if you're running CS3, but if you're running CS4 then maybe you want to take advantage of that GPU acceleration. </p>

<p>The other issue that comes into play here is going to be which operating system you want to use. If you are stuck on OS X (which I use and prefer) you really only have a few options as far as rig customization, unless you want to shell out the big bucks for the Mac Pro. If you're willing to go Windows (Windows 7 is supposed to be a substantially improved OS over Vista, by the way) then you have an entire galaxy of choices and configuration possibilities. </p>

<p>Personally, I think the iMac is a very capable machine and provides a decent level of power at a more rational premium. I doubt you'd be disappointed if you picked one up.</p>

<p>Like I said, I own a Mac, but I'll be the first to admit that Apple tends to charge a premium for their hardware and services. So, yes, you really can get the same or better specs in a PC rig, and if you build it yourself you can really get a lot of bang for your buck. It's a decision I've had to weigh a number of times, and if I wasn't a struggling newspaper photog/reporter I'd probably have both!</p>

<p>Adding memory is simple. You can also add external hard drives etc. But the 20" iMac screen is TN monitor and is not great for color correction and other photo work. If you can't afford a 24" model, you might as well get your PC. That's just my opinion. The iMac, is a complete unit. The 24" version is an excellent photo kit. I've been using mine for since Oct 2006 and it's still going strong. I'm not a professional photographer, but I take and process a lot of photos in digital, 35mm and MF scanned film. I'll be ready for a new one maybe at the end of this year or next year, when I decide to upgrade to Leopard or the next version after that, then I will want more than my 3GB ram max. Right now it chugs along just fine thank you. I have 4 external drives attached and 2 scanners. All works well.<br>

If you are interested, you might want to wait about a month, there's a new version suppose to come out soon, that will have some enhancements.</p>

 

<p>I have the 24" version and it's close to the perfect machine for someone who wants a compact, stylish and powerful machine with a decent size of screen. I am very happy with mine. I'd strongly recommend going to the 24" version over the 20" if you're doing any photo work, though.</p>

<p>Ronald, Ryan, Barry and John, Thank you all for your detailed replies. This is a test...I keep trying to ask another question and the system keeps rejecting it.</p>

<p>Here we got an 20" iMac about 2 years ago; we also have about 2 dozen PC's.<br>

<br /> Our iMac 20" only holds 2 gigs of ram; newer models hold more.<br>

<br /> We bought full Photoshop 7 and CS2 upgrade as a bundle from an seller; Photoshop 7 for the Mac is locked out; Apples rigid world defines what one can install; BUT the CS2 upgrade at least peeked at the PS7 disk to allow a full CS2 install.<br>

<br /> As a computer it really seems not any faster than our PC's of that era. Getting it on our lan was not so bad; but having it connect to our graphics printer required another 250 bucks. They charge 250 for the PC's as a whole; another 250 for Mac. I futzed around trying to get the Mac to work with our graphics printer on the lan; then punted and paid to have it done. It turned out the discs that came with our new printer that were for the Mac were not correct; the printer support tech had to talk to another and we downloaded the drivers that were in the service techs passworded area; not for the general public; they cut us some slack an only charged us 100 bucks instead of 250.<br>

<br /> If somebody brings in a CD burned with Windows Vista cannd lame burning software; the 20" iMac will not read them; nor will our win2000 boxes; nor 1/2 of my XP boxes. If its burned with Nero then any computer can read them; even an old NT3.51 server.<br>

<br /> The USB jack on the iMacs 20" keyboard will only read some falsh fobs; you have to use the back USB jack that can sink more current with many of them.<br>

<br /> With a used iMac 20" you should check what vintage it is to see what the maximum ram it will hold<br /> With our customers I have heard some mac folks say they like the 24" Imac's screen better than the 20" imac. Ours really doesnt seem that bad as a photoshop retouching box; thats why we bought it for a mac retoucher/employee of ours.<br>

<br /> To install oldeer software locked out with the imac we installed Parallels; win2000 and then installed PS 5.5 and 7. This allows us to on rare occasions open up weird file variants that are gone with CS2.<br>

<br /> We had a brownout where the AC line voltage dropped from 120 to 80 volts back in September; the PC's were either on or off; the Imac screen was on but it was like it was all locked up; after several restarts when we had full 120 volts the imac sorted its self out</p>

<p>"..Well, you can add more memory, but with the current aluminum body construction, that can be very difficult to do by yourself..."</p>

<p>? its a matter of removing 2 philips screw, put the memory in, put back the screw and voila..around 2min for a chimp to do..im sure you can do it faster : )</p>

<p>A imac by itself is a powerfull station for most user, and i could say for any photographic oriented user pro or not a Imac is wayyyyyyy OK. 320gig of hard drive, 4gig of ram, 2xprocessor, firewire 800, 400, usb2..what do you want more? 8gig of ram? why? do you work on 2gig image regularly...i work as a professional and i have one ( i also have a super power station because i also work on mega big image most of the time)</p>

<p>Want more storage space? get a fast firewire 800 drive of any flavor you want; 1T, 2T...5 x 1T..your choice.</p>

<p>Oh wnat a better video card? why? the 256 one included is more than sufficient and if you dont do music or video (i mean serious close to a pro level video) its doestn matter what video card you have..yes, even for CS4, if you dont need the new gadget (glidding image, animated zoom, live rotate) any mac video card will do as today. If you dont open more than 7 image at the same time..any mac video card will do as today.</p>

<p>You want a 20inch? bad choice..the 24inch have a better monitor, better viewing angle also.</p>

<p>After that its a matter of OS mainly (put asside virus and imcompatibility) but for me, i always been on a Mac and like the interface, all i use is retty straigth forward, simple to use even for a first time user.</p>

<p>I dont like the look, the feel of Vista or XP, dont like the *own it look* on screen. dont like the way you have to think..but like any mac / pc user the main reason not to like one or the other is basically a question of taste and $. Even if i could have a PC as powerfull as my Mac, at 50% less $.. i would still get a Mac just because i like it : )..like some user will still get a PC even if it was the same price as a Mac. At that point its more about what you like and what you can pay.</p>

<p>A iMac 24inch, 4gig of ram is certainly the best choice for 95% user that do photography and want a Mac. I have one, well i should say i *had* one because im changing everyhting to get a new macbook pro with a 24inch LED display to bring on shoot next week instead of my Imac 24inch; best of both world..same powerfull machine, but portable also ( i mean portable as i can open it in a cafe..little hard to do with my imac : )</p>

<p>I have an older 23" Cinema monitor and I would agree to go with the 24" version, partly because of size where you can put a medium print on the screen at or near full size with all the software applications around. Also at 23" I can put two 8 1/2 x 11 pages side by side when working with documents and similar sized applications windows, and I can design 900x1024 Web page without scrolling. In monitors size matters as well as color calibration.</p>

Hi John,

 

You were asking for an unbiased response, I don't think you got it. More on this later.

 

Personally, I would look to the 24 inch iMac as stated above, or the Mac Pro. Apple does make a fine computer, but its not perfect (and no computer is).

 

"spend time defraging M/S" - are you serious? This is, at most, a monthly task that you do before going to bed. Time spent= 1 minute per month.

 

"Various other maintenance" - what are you talking about?

 

"delete cache" This comment is a bit funny.

 

The comment linking a video card to audio was also a bit funny.

 

Look, the truth is that Mac or PC, they are both fine systems, we are spoiled and don't know it. I tell people to buy a Mac when they ask me about buying a new computer. But let's get real on the reasons here.

 

Get the 24 inch iMac, or get a Dell with a 24 inch screen. If you can hold off a few months, get a PC with Vista that has a free upgrade to Windows 7. 7 is looking quite good right now.

 

But, if you want the best, get Linux. No PHOTOSHOP, but everything else just sings!

<p>"..You were asking for an unbiased response, I don't think you got it.."</p>

<p>LOL..what did you bring so different from the other answer?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>For those of you using a 24" iMac, how and what are you doing - if anything - to calibrate the color of the monitor? Is the iMac monitor as easy to calibrate as a stand-alone monitor attached to a PC or a Mac tower machine?</p>

<p>Thanks...</p>

<p>- Mike</p>

 

<p>1_use a calibration device to calibrate it</p>

<p>2_you cant use a Imac as a second or first monitor (technicaly) A Imac IS a computer itself.</p>

<p>"It's hard to imagine that Apple packs everything into the frame/monitor". Just look at the current generation of laptops. They have a boatload of power and features...both Mac and PC, packed into a very small space. Anyway, I agree with the comments above. Get the 24 inch iMac. Add external hard drives to support your Time Machine back-up, which is a great advantage over PC because it's automatic, and go to town. The quality of the images on the monitor will blow you away. Enjoy it!</p>

<p>Everytime I try to ask another detailed question this pops up. Grrrrrrrrrrr...</p>

<h2>Problem with Your Input</h2>

<p>We had a problem processing your entry:</p>

<ul>

<li>One ! is enough (if not too many) </li>

</ul>

<p>Please back up using your browser, correct it, and resubmit your entry.<br>

Is it because I am trying to copy/paste something?</p>

<p>I'd get the Mac Pro (tower) for the ease of harware upgrade (memory, hardisk video card etc...)</p>

<p ><strong>Please give me some input to a reply I got from a member at another forum</strong>. "I don’t own a Mac, but have some knowledge about them. I would like to try a Mac myself one day, but I don’t think an iMac will ever be my main workstation." The reasons are:</p>

<p >1. The current line of iMacs is outdated from a hardware viewpoint. <br />2. Only takes 4GB RAM. Maybe Mac OS X uses the RAM better? </p>

<p >3. No hardware RAID option. Hard drive speed has a huge impact on system performance and with drives being so cheap any new PC should be with RAID.</p>

<p >4. Non-upgradable. For me this is a huge point. You can’t even put in a second hard drive. You have to use a slower external drive.</p>

 

<p>As owner of many dozens of PC's here our iMac 20" unit is a decent box for photoshop; one also has little or no issues with crud from the internet; no windows updates; no virus stuff either. One can just an extenal drive on the rear usb 2 port and one can move big files and do backupes quickly.</p>

<p>1_need explanation.</p>

<p>2_by the time you need more than 4gig of ram you will be changing your station. Im a pro, work in Ps 50hrs + a week, work on file that are arund 300meg everyday, sometime 600-700meg with layer...and my Imac 24inch handle them just fine.</p>

<p>3_i dont know many user that want a raid setup in there machine..and even if you can do it, you will need a serious backyp strategy..what i mean is, if you start in the digital world you already have enough to handle without complicated your life even more with a raid setup. Not many user have one or need one...or know why they should / shouldnt have one : )</p>

<p>4_dotn see the point again, just add a external drive to suit your need, when you need it. any size and in 3 possible connections.</p>

<p>Basically, when can still answer your questions for the next years, when a subject like mac vs pc is brought here,..it could be endless.</p>

<p>2 user will say get a mac, 2 user will say get a pc.</p>

<p>it is really up to you to take what you feel more comfortable using, and how much you can spend.</p>

<p>A Imac 24inch with 4gig of ram is a serious machien for serious user that want a powrfull computer to do all is photoshop stuff, for 2000$ in the mac department you cant go wrong with a setup like this.</p>

<p>Im sure that in the PC world, you can also get something similar, equipment and quality wise, probably cheaper, and still get the same power.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I left Mac because I was tired of reading "Mac version not available. Check back soon" when interested in software or pluggins. Then I began to ask myself "Why am I paying so much more for the same 'Made in China' hardware? The Mac OS soon began to lose its allure.<br /> <br /> I don't think it is wise to judge your PC experience from the ownership of a Dell. Nearly 100% of the rave reviews Mac gets is from people that come from poor PC's like Dell/HP and have expected too much from a $500 system filled with bloatware. It's then taken everywhere on the net and the thing packs it in. After a few years of this BS, then they go and blow $1800 on a Mac and go "PC's suck, Mac rule." Hardly a fair comparision. <br /> <br /> Also, CS4 only comes in 64-bit for Windows. This means having access to unlimited ram really speeds up ones work in CS4. Vista 64 is the best OS that experienced Windows users have ever used. Providing you have the ram to feed the beast. But ram is cheap. Vista 64 is also the least risky Windows OS to use in terms of viruses. This will change as it becomes more popular. Personally, I don't have any of the maintenance issues that the mac camp seem to assume I have when running Windows. <br /> <br /> Out with the old, in with the new. There's is no way I'd buy a Mac today. It hasn't been mentioned here that Mac doesn't come with the new Intel 8 core i7 processor yet. This is a pivotal choice at the moment. While paying Mac premium for average hardware, you'd be buying old architecture and using Photoshop with a max of 3.2 gigs of ram. An equally configured Dell with the innards of the iMac can be bought for peanuts because Intel is dropping the duals and quad cores this year. Dell currently sells todays Intel i7 cpu in the XPS with Vista 64 and 8 gigs or ram for $1200 that makes the iMac look like it was configured in the 90's. <br /></p>

<blockquote>Since I am not a computer whiz, what are the drawbacks of not having the big tower like most PC's have when it comes to adding to your machine later and what would you want to add later?<br /></blockquote>

<p><br /> The draw back to the iMac is that everything is tightly contained in there. You're stuck with an average monitor. You can't just pop off the side panel and add a second/third/fourth hard drive. You'll soon have firewire cables (speed decrease) going to external drives in their expensive cases that are susceptible to coffee and the dog's tail because the iMac "looks cool". Believe me, a plethora of cables going to a couple vulnerable external hard drives all the time is not cool. You have a choice of a couple video cards. Neither of which is very powerful for the current or future releases of Photoshop. iMac's are over priced laptops that you can't take anywhere. I don't see the appeal even though I recommend them to non-graphic people at least half a dozen times a year. <br /> <br /> If going Mac, I'd go for the Mac Pro so you have a case that takes upgrades or additional drives. And I'd wait until it is offered with the Intel i7. <br /> <br /> If going PC, I'd start with a great case and power supply that will last for years. Build it up with superior parts from newegg and pay a decent tech the $150 to plug it all together and install Vista 64. I went this route as every few years for $800 I can install the latest and greatest motherboard/cpu/ram and still use the same case and optical drive.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>what can whe add..Garrison have said it all ; )</p>

<p>im switching to a pc tomorow, sale my useless macs, along with my 3 Ps licence, and all my font and other software and make the big jump in the *real* world of 64bit and Window 2012...hopefully opening a 300meg file will take less than 3 sec on my new pc because its very very frustrating to wait that long to open a file on my virus / imcompatibility / problem free out of date computer ; )</p>

<p>Yall have seriously twisted my arm. Now i have to dish out $2,000 plus and get the 24". and be very happy it appears:)<br>

Does the glossy screen does not bother anyone?<br>

Also, does anyone still use cd or dvd for back up along w/ext. h.d.?<br>

I am really spoiled w/being able to burn multi-sessions on a disc with my pc. What I mean is one day I shoot a chamber of commerce party burning 10 photos to a cd. The next week, I shoot another event and add twenty more photos to the cd ans so on until I fill the cd up. Did not have a dvd burner. I am told that with a Mac you cannot do multi-sessions. At college we could not do multi-burning using toast but I thought that it was just because the instructors had set the machines up that way. Curious why mac would do this?<br>

I only use my ext. h.d once a month to back-up files. I don't keep it hooked up to my machine for fear of surge taking out computer and ext. h.d. Isn't that the smart thing to do? We have lots of lighting and also my local power company fried a few things in my home with a power surge recently. Took out my modem and stereo but not my pc. I was using a Monster Surge Potector by the way. I don't give it high marks.</p>

<p>@ Patrick, :)</p>

<p>John, change your friend not your PC : )</p>

<p>you can burn multiple session ith a mac, you can open word document, you can play games, you can even start your mac as a pc if you want.</p>

<p>no the glossy screen doestn bother me, but i have not a lamp on my back and i control my environement.</p>

<p>with 2000$ you will be happy in both world because you will get a new machine. As Garisson said, if you decide to stay with PC, dont buy a hp in special at bestbuy..buy something more robust with better hardware at least...and make sure that your mouse is compatible with the video card, that is compatible with the new monitor driver, that could be non responsive because of your modem connection ............LOL just kidding ; )</p>

 

<p ><a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=760139">Patrick Lavoie</a> John, change your friend not your PC : ) you can burn multiple session ith a mac, you can open word document, you can play games, you can even start your mac as a pc if you want.</p>

 

<p>Reply to Patrick- change your friend not your pc? Sorry that went over my head but is that the commercial? Just checking and making sure you jest:) I called Mac about the multi-session question (at night) and the girl that answered said she did not think you could do multi-sessions. Then she went and asked someone else to be sure and they agreed. Will the Mac do this without buying more software? The Mac rep at Best buy did say that you could add windows or pc to your Mac for $$$ amount of dollars but I don't know if i would want to if it comes with pc issues. I have never even looked at a game on my current pc. I don't need another addiction taking away from my photo addiction:) I just want a trouble free machine that will work well with CS4, maybe Lightroom and work with my printers (which will be new ones and no problem there I hope.</p>