DP1s or 14mm pancake for my GF1?

I can't decide. Please help. I'd like a DPxx for some street stuff and indoor shooting. My worry with the DP series is the slowness since I like to shoot good quality pics of kids around the house, that may be limiting. I feel fascinated by the foveon sensor and would love to try it for outdoor shooting where IQ is arguably better than the GF1. Then my logical side says the 14mm pancake is a more practical decision as it adds to a system I seriously love and I expect to upgrade my body when a new improved version is available. Thoughts? Sometimes I just love new stuff more than I need it for any reason. The DPxx would be a cool toy that perhaps I should talk myself out of.

Hi Keith.

Well, have you considered the superbly sharp, fast, and compact Panny 20mm f/1.7 pancake on your GF1? I use it on

my Panny G2, with excellent results. If you contact me offline, I can give my website where you can see some images

taken with this combo. In any case, good luck to you!

Steve, I totally concur on the 20mm, I have that one already, and love it. Just looking for good IQ in the 28mm (35

mm equiv) range. The 14mm seems like it'll be about as awesome as the 20mm, maybe more awesome depending on your criteria.

<p>Disclaimer: I am a happy owner of a few Foveon based cameras. But I hope my comments make sense regardless of what I own or like.</p>

<p>I would say the DP-1x would be great. It's not as slow as you are thinking (the original DP-1 is slow to operate), and it is a great way to explore what the whole Foveon thing is about as you mentioned. Also the DP-1 lens will be sharper than any of the lenses mentioned.</p>

<p>Also think of it this way - the DP-1 represents a camera you could actually have on you pretty much all the time in a pocket, no way you can do that with an EP-1 in average pants.</p>

<p>And it gives you essentially a second body for wide angle, so you could carry just longer lenses for the EP-1 - and have a backup in case of camera failure.</p>

<p>Lastly, some images of kids as you were concerned about that - here's a DP-1 image indoors, worst case - crappy flouresent lighting, ISO 800:</p>

<p>http://kigiphoto.smugmug.com/Family/Nicks-Birthday-2009/7320347_37QdS#470930426_EHGmp<br>

<img src="http://kigiphoto.smugmug.com/photos/470930426_EHGmp-M.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>I think the DP-1x should be slightly better at higher ISO, as the DP-2 is.</p>

<p>Also a more pleasing ambient light shot via window light, ISO 400:</p>

<p>http://kigiphoto.smugmug.com/Family/Nicks-Birthday-2009/7320347_37QdS#470931442_ZRUV3<br>

<img src="http://kigiphoto.smugmug.com/photos/470931442_ZRUV3-M.jpg" alt="" /><br>

Original size versions are there as well, hover over the image and a download folder will appear (along with links to other sizes)</p>

<p>Also, why not a few other random DP-1 shots while I'm at it:</p>

<p>

<p>

<p>

<p>Or, this one:</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/kgelner/image/106026295<br>

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/kgelner/image/106026295/large.jpg" alt="" /></p>

Thanks for the feedback. I've been pretty much dying for a pocketable APS-C camera since I first got into digital many

years back and saw what a difference sensor size makes. So far I haven't found one that's made me want to take the

plunge. Most of the reviews I see either knock the DPxx cameras for being frustrating to use but that's generally

stated when comparing to a P&S. I assumed the DPxx was a bit more like using a dSLR on the "P" setting where

you'd have to know when to stop up/down, when to adjust ISO, etc, since the camera wasn't made to be used like a

P&S. Just because its small doesn't meant its functionally just like a P&S. Or it's compared to a dSLR which isn't all that fair.

 

I'm not sure what folks complain about when it comes to m43 IQ. I know they're not on par with so-called full frame or

APS-C dSLR's in some categories but frankly I have never loved a camera like I love my GF1. The IQ is a pretty

small notch down from my dSLR but it's so convenient to carry even with a flash and a few lenses, I find myself using

it about 70-80% of the time. I mean, how often do you need outstanding low light performance for walkaround

shooting, street photog, snaps of kids, landscapes, etc? How often do I need a fast burst rate? Besides, I think film blows digital away for low light stuff so I

never use een my nicer digital equipment for that anyway.

 

Do you see any of the color distortion that's reported in the reviews using the Foveon?

<p>The sigma is slower to use compared to both P&S (LX3, Ricohs, G10) and dslrs (nikons) in my very limited experience(w/ original dp1). Then again, your POV might differ as I find digital blows away film for lowlight stuff...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I own a DP1s (along with Nikons, Canons, and a Panasonic G1) and in certain situations it's great. Leslie is correct that it is slow to operate and I would not use it to photograph children. I use mine for scenics in good light and for that it works great - as long as you take your time and set it up properly. I like the Foveon sensor "look", but in most respects the DP series is going to frustrate a photographer who is used to modern Canons, Nikons, etc. I sort of compare it to the digital equivalent to the Pentax K1000 I had forty years ago - no frills.</p>

Ok, I really don't get the strong differences in opinion about the speed of the camera. I know speed is relative but

"unsuitable" to shoot children seems to suggest its as bad or worse than the first autofocus stuff that went mainstream

on SLR's (film) in the 80's. Is it that bad or just "slower than standard?"

<p>Here are some objective facts (per original DP1), hope this chart will clear things up... </p>

 

<ul>

<li>Startup time: DP1: <strong> 3.9sec </strong> GF1: <strong> 1.4 </strong> LX3: <strong>2.3</strong> D90: <strong>0.3</strong></li>

<li>Record to play mode: DP1: <strong>6.5sec </strong> GF1: <strong>1.4</strong> LX3 <strong>2.4</strong> D90: <strong>0.6</strong></li>

<li>Shutter lag (full AF): DP1: <strong>1.54sec</strong> GF1: <strong>0.41</strong> LX3 <strong>0.77</strong> D90: <strong>0.21</strong></li>

<li>Recycle time: DP1: <strong>5.70sec</strong> GF1: <strong> 0.69</strong> LX3: <strong>1.17 </strong> D90:<strong> 0.36 </strong></li>

<li>Shutter lag (pre-focus): DP1: <strong> 0.132sec</strong> GF1: <strong>0.072</strong> LX3: <strong>0.012</strong> D90: <strong>0.067</strong> </li>

</ul>

<p>I used GF1 since you own it, LX3 as the P&S and the D90 as the typical consumer dslr. As you can see, the stats speak for itself. Now the "s" was improved but only sightly per DPReview. Personally, the startup time didn't bother me as much as AF (both full and pre-focus) shutter lag and recycle time.</p>

<ul>

</ul>

 

<p>The sigma sensor is bigger than your GF1's but I think the sigma is worse in lowlight than 4/3rd size sensors. However, at low ISO, the foveon absolutely rocks given that you could (with all that lags and all) capture the moment you wanted. </p>

<p>I think I need the 14mm pancake and I should consider the LX5 for my pocketable-ish camera. I'm pretty sure the 4/3 sensors will gain a lot of ground in the next few years and it makes more sense to have a nicer lens collection for that body/mount. I'm really curious about the DPxx series, does anyone want to let me borrow theirs?</p>

<p>i've been looking at the DP1s too, and the low price is tempting, but from what i've read, it's basically a dedicated landscape compact which will be challenged in conditions other cameras shine in. its main problem seems to be that you need to shoot RAW to get the most out of it, but write times are so slow, it's useless for candid photography. it would also be less than optimal for street and indoor stuff--the LX3 and G11 are better at ISO 800 and have a faster max aperture as well.</p>

<p>the pancake is indeed a much more practical decision. i would definitely get that first if i were you.</p>

 

<p>First of all, it's a decent camera for candids as the first two shots show.</p>

<p>Secondly, the DP-1x should revise some of the timing figures listed - and at least two seem wrong, there's no delay at all to go into review mode (much less six seconds!) and there's also no shutter lag as long as you are focused. AF speed is slow but for more challenging conditions you can just switch to manual focus and either adjust the focus wheel slightly or just use a hyperfocal setting.</p>

<p>I would say it's very true you should shoot RAW with the camera, but that's true of any camera that supports RAW.</p>

 

Kendall, I really can't settle on a P&S camera because they all pretty much stink IMHO. The DP1s may have gotten a

bad wrap here and there... It's almost like a small dSLR in function but without the face recognition, fast AF, etc. I'm

not sure folks who look for a small camera are that forgiving when they're used to fast AF etc. My wife loves our

Casio P&S but I'd rather be thrown in a lake with cement shoes that use it. I'm sure the DPxx is better in terms of the

lens quality and IQ, in fact that's probably an understatement. Any chance you'd be willing to post more candids? I'd

love to see them!

<blockquote>

<p>It's almost like a small dSLR in function but without the face recognition, fast AF, etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>FWIW I have nothing against any brand, Sigma included, I'm just here to inform, tell what I know and experienced...I'm sure some love their DP1 and it could produce decent results. Most anyone can with most any camera. However, the only thing in common between a modern dslr and the DP1 is the sensor size and quality at low ISO, I really don't see much else...(and 2:3 aspect ratio) Lastly, I did say the timing stats I listed were from the *original DP1* and not the later versions. Good luck with whatever your decision maybe, Keith. </p>

<p>kendall, your pics illustrate exactly the DP1's strengths and weaknesses. your landscape shot is great. the candids? meh (IMHO). i'm sure you could get good results with shooting still subjects if you tried hard enough, but almost any DSLR would be more capable in a situation requiring fast AF and/or moving subjects.</p>

<div></div>

<p>@Eric - I am not saying the DP-1 is great at candids, it's serviceable. If you're mostly into landscapes it's fantastic though. Of course a DSLR will generally be better, but that also does not fit in your pocket.</p>

<p>@keith - I agree the DP-1 is totally not the camera for a person like your wife who really may need some automatic assistance, I would recommend it really for people who knew their way around a DSLR and just wanted a compact with a great sensor more than a general purpose P&S. Here are a few more candids I dug up from the DP-1:</p>

<p>

<p>

<p>I have to admit I don't have a ton because I also have a DP-2 (and a DSLR) and do take more candids with those.</p>