Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ShunCheung, Dec 29, 2021.
Your secret's safe with me.
Have you got a date for yours?
Nothing concrete yet, but likely to be by the end of January so I'm told.
As I said before, I'm in no rush.
Unless they read into what that really means and that is a ton of these are shipping and will fill outstanding orders faster than the most recent estimates.
I don't understand why this would be so. Nikon makes these products primarily for professional photography. Given the destructive impact of the pandemic to professional photography, and many photographers' financial situation, I think it's appropriate that when there is a product which many have waited for years and one that can give a significant advantage to the user in some fields (in particular when silent photography is required or advantageous and the subject is moving), priority is given to professional photographers to get the product when it can make a difference to their livelihood.
Again, i do not believe, at all, that getting a new camera in a hurry makes a diffrence to their livelihood. If it would, it could only be because these pros lost everything they had in a fire or such, and cannot find any other replacement than this hard to get Z9. Not a believable scenario. It makes no sense to suggest that pandemic struck pros need not only to be served in a hurry but also be given a preferred treatment. They could and should go on doing what they do with what they have. Suggesting that they could not is saying that they would not be able to make a living if Nikon had never even suggested that they would think about perhaps making a thing like this Z9. Pure nonsense.
This hurry is pure gadgetism, pure GAS. There is no practical reason for any of it. Just feeding frenzy, fear of missing the party. And inventing excuses to jump the line.
It would be very interesting, but maybe difficult to find, the actual financial split between NPS and others.
I suspect, due to shear numbers, more money is spent by non-pros.
Nikon make cameras to sell, they don't care who too.
However, they can encourage pros to open their wallets for the latest kit by giving them earlier access.
That adds to the buzz that trickles down to future sales.
I'm sure there are far more rich photographers than Pro photographers....
Ordinarily I might agree with you, but silent photography makes a big difference in some situations, including photography of mammals from a hide, and photographing concerts, dance, funerals, wedding ceremonies, speakers at conferences etc. Some events already forbid cameras that are not silent. I believe this will quickly become the norm and loud cameras (such as DSLRs) will be banned from many events or considered like elephants in a china shop.
I like DSLRs and optical viewfinders myself, but recognize that attitudes are changing and can see that in a few years customers would be shocked to hear the sound of a DSLR at a wedding. Already it is a source of curious looks (not conductive to candids) and small talk when people hear the sound they seem really surprised that such cameras exist.
I do believe that professional photographers get more work, and in some cases, better results, by using a silent camera. Not in all situations, of course, and sometimes, e.g. when working with a model, it can be useful that the model hears when the shot is taken. Photographers have answered to queries about the effects of COVID on their business and frequent response was apparently that it caused initially (during times of severe lockdowns) 80-90% loss. As a result, many quit the business. In such a situation, the photographers that remain active need to have every advantage they can, or at least avoid being disadvantaged. AP and some others shifted their staff gear to Sony to get access to the silent shutter of the A9 series (also for video-stills integration, another factor where the Z9 also helps by offering competitive video features).
And this is coming from someone who prefers DSLRs for my photography. I'm just not blind to changes in attitudes nor deaf to stories being told.
Yes, of course, but for brand recognition it is important for Nikon that their gear is used by high-profile professional photographers as their use of a certain make of camera and lens helps with the credibility of the brand and their products in the eyes of the general public.
Also it presents a motivation and a challenge to their engineers, for their products to be sought after by professionals and specialists, and having a motivated staff can help with the productivity of the company.
Largely the consumer buyer base is lost to the smartphone. What remains is the professional and advanced amateur photographers. Often the latter aspire of being professionals and thus they look at professional work and also (perhaps regrettably, as many different types of gear could be used for most images) what is being used.
That's not really the point. If one only cares about making money then there are better avenues to that than making cameras.
Being rich doesn't make one a good photographer. If pros use the gear, there is the impact of great photos being made with Nikon equipment and published which brings fame and recognition to the brand. And it motivates others both on the user and designer side to see this happen.
There is often quite a substantial difference in images published online in forums vs. those in magazines or books; the online forums often present images as being great only to capture a sharp image of a subject (time and time again, repeated) whereas in the more traditional media, often there needs to be novelty and larger interest in the content of the image to get published. And again the effect of those memorable images on the public that define our age is important. Having the Z9 associated with beginner snapshots of no substance isn't all that great a prospect.
OK, well I can weigh in here and I hope it helps at least from one person’s perspective.
First off, it is less about getting the gear in a “hurry” and more along the lines of getting it in time for a seasonal workflow or in some cases, at all in a 6-9 month period. There have been instances like with the D3 that I either would have got it in 3-5 weeks or 8-9 months, not good on the latter end.
In my particular case, Covid indeed did impact my income for 2020-2021 by seeing it fall by 65%. While I am able to weather that I still had to put off some things, quickly diversify revenue streams by for example doing more video as some clients wanted to consolidate the manpower footprint as in the case of my hospital clients for annual reports, monthly bulletins and TV ads. This ties up capital in unique ways and often constrains credit lines for longer than usual as was in my case.
But specific to me waiting until the last minute to order it, in October-November of last year I did a two month long fine art project in remote North Atlantic Islands all on 120 black and white film that cost me well over $20K to produce all in. So not only did I spend a lot of cash reserves, I also turned down work to boot! So in not knowing what 2022 Q1 revenues might look like, I opted to the last moment to place the order.
Now enter ski season and my ski area clients. We are in full swing in the middle of what appears to be a better than average season and to have a Z9’s AF and frame rate to do ad work and it’s 8K motion ability for some of those client’s 15 foot wide multi-panel live displays will put me on very solid footing for this year. If I get the camera in another month or two, then I will still have had a great season but might not have been able to pull off certain outcomes for these clients nearly as well and in the case of 8K video, not at all.
I hope this very real scenario helps you re-think the shade you seem to want to cast on the NPS program and why some photographers might actually benefit from getting the gear sooner than later.
It was not my intension to dis the NPS program or deny a working photographer a Z9, far from it.
I was merely suggesting that overall Nikon might well make more money from non-pros simply because there are more of them.
... and I certainly didn't imply that money makes better photographers/photos! I suspect there may even be an opposite correlation.
People who pose with the latest kit (poseurs) are usually not the best photographers.
However, the exemplary reasons for needing the latest kit, are often overlooked by many. Simple things like high fps are maligned as completely unnecessarily in cameras by those that don't need them. For capturing un-predictable action, it's about the only way.
The latest firmware for the Z9 fixed a fps bottleneck for the duration of 20fps bursts. But 'spray and pray' is a derogatory term implying the photographer is useless at timing their shots. No-one is timing anything specific at 20/30 or 120fps.
No, but the more money they make, the more they can spend on R&D for the next incarnation of Z equipment for their loyal Pros.
The only reason I would change brand was if Nikon didn't provide a function, such as Pixel-Shift, that would significantly benefit one area of my paying work.
AFAIK, they could introduce this via firmware for most of the Z bodies, so I'll bide my time.
There already are plenty silent options. If your livelihood depends on it, there is no reason why you would not already be using one.
Same answer to DB.
The suggestion, Mike, that someone might need (and not just want) a feature offered by a new camera has already been answered. That would mean, Mike, that this person has not been able to make a living until now. Or rather: until he 'finally' gets his hands on that new thing. Which, of course, is nonsense. What was good until now still is good until then. Even if that then, DB, is not the coming, but the next season after that. In fact, if that new thing had not been announced and would never come at all, we'd happily go on doing what we do without any problem.
This haste really is just what i said it is before. Nothing else.
OK, so by your logic I should just say to heck with the Z9, buy a dedicated video camera that does 8K/60 and buy another D850 so I can have a physical sync port for my studio work. That makes sense….sure glad we got that straight.
Must feel good to be right all the time…
..and living in caves!
What i am saying that if Nikon would decide to scap the entire Z9 tomorrow, never deliver any more and recalling the ones delivered, you would not have to quit what you were and are doing for goodness knows how long already without a Z9.
And i am indeed right about that.
If that is where you usually hang, sure.
Consumerism in optima forma. If you do not get the latest (in a hurry appatently is a condition too), you are hitting rocks to create sparks for a living. Really, Mike... you believe that? "Living in caves"... wow!
No, but you'd loose out business to photographers who CAN offer things like totally silent imaging.
Maybe you've never worked in a competitive photographic market where you need to be as good or better than the others?
Being 'worse' is just business suicide.
Hearing 'I was at a Christening the other week and the photographer there didn't spoil everything with a noisy camera' isn't going to feel great with your State-of-the Art D850 or D6....get the idea yet?
Wow, the lost art of modesty....
So it's forbidden to know when you're right and say so?
What has the world come to...
Mike, as someone said before, there are plenty 'totally silent' options already. So not only will the Z9 not offer a competitive advantage over other photogrsphers who also do not have one yet. It will not offer a competitive advantage over other photographers who do already use one of the other options. The Z9 will not bring something new in this regard.
From your ignorance about that, i must conclude that you do not know, and hence cannot possibly compete, in a 'competitive photographic market'.
Something that is corroborated by asserting that not owning a Z9 is equal to 'being worse'. What utter nonsense!
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