Do I Need a Flash for Outdoor Shots?

<p>I have a Canon powershot G10. I don't shoot indoors. It does have an internal flash and also a hotshoe. Would there be any benefit to an external flash for outdoor photography?</p>

<p>You should probably get one of the auxiliary "guide books" for the Powershot. In its own manual briefly, and probably a greater length in a third-party guide, the concept of "fill flash" or "fill-in flash" will be explained together with examples. A Google™ of the term popped up many hits including (<a href="http://www.danheller.com/tech-fillflash.html">link</a> ).</p>

<p>the advantage of an external flash in that particular situation is increased power to fill... the other traditional benefits of an external flash, mainly greater distance from the flash to lens and the ability to bounce or aim the flash, are really not that important in outdoor fill situations. <br>

If you are finding that you don't have enough power, that the internal flash isnt doing enough, or if you just cant control the level of the flash (because the controls are impossible to use on most point and shoots) than an external flash may help... <br>

The benefits for indoor photography, however, are enormous.</p>

<p> On the G10, there are tremendous benefits to be gained from a hotshoe flash. Benefits not available to current DSLR owners. Now, if high synch-speed means nothing to you, stop reading now. If you understand the advantage it offers, or want to do fill-flash at distances that would require a generator & strobes for DSLR users, read this:</p>

<p>http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/01/control-your-world-with-ultra-high-sync.html</p>

<p> So do you need a hotshoe flash? No. You can use the built-in tiny flash at low sunch speeds which means short ranges. Do you want a hotshoe flash to do high synch outdoors? Yes, you do. It will let you do amazingly long distance fill, which will help you cope with contrast as nothing else can, make your pictures more colorful, and sharper. </p>

<p>Here's a few samples:</p>

<p>http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/pool/</p>

<p>Robert wrote: "because the controls are impossible to use on most point and shoots"</p>

<p>Untrue in the G10. It's so easy that even a DSLR owner can do it. :-)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Linda,<br>

The answer depens on whether you wish to use fill flash outdoors (which I hate) or learn to see light and find light that comes in to the subject at the early hours and very late hours of the day when light is parallel to the ground and enters the subjects eyes and face with great beauty.<br>

Adding more light from a tiny flsh to already lousy light in the mid day hours is just not effective. It adds bad highlights and is very, very difficult to control to look anything like beautiful portrait light.<br>

Waiting for the right times of day or placing the subject in an overhanging shade situation like under a tree will force the light to come in low from the side no matter the time of day, which again gives you light into the face and eyes so that the face really is illuminated similar great studio lighting. You can also get black reflectasols for above the subject's head and to one side which then has the same effect. In either case, you are learning to control light rather than splashing more light at a bad situation.<br>

So, in my opinion and way of working, the answer is absolutely not. You do not have to have any auxiliary light out side if you know what you are doing. <br>

If you choose to use flash outdoors, keep in mind to keep the brightness level at least two stops under what the base daylight exposure is so that you highlight the eyes, but not over light the rest of the face. That will leave at least some modeling to the shape of the light.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your responses. I like to shoot nature and usually don't shoot people, so I don't think I need the fill flash.</p>

<p>If you include any 'macro' work, you would probably benefit from a shoe flash. If not, then you probably wouldn't need it. I mainly use flash outside only for portraits or macro.</p>

<p>A little less than a year ago, Tim and I debated fill flash here...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00QDkH">http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00QDkH</a></p>

<p>Coincidently, I did a similar shoot to the one I posted in that thread yesterday. I used fill flash through the whole thing again. =)</p>

<p> The thing is that the G10, with its 1/2000th synch speed offers fill flash at amazingly long distances from a 283 type EFU. Something not even the DX3 can do. People working on TTL, stuck with 1/250th synch speeds are clueless as to what can be done with a G10.</p>

<p> It's not for everyone. If contrast is no problem in your work, then forget about it. Use a GND.</p>

<p>For the c-note price of a hotshoe-PC adapter, coiled PC cord, Vivitar 285 (and maybe a bracket) you can fill landscapes, houses, etc (up to 60+feet) like very few can. You do not need a dedicated flash, and would have to learn a tiny bit about manual fill flash use. And it doesn't mean you have to use it all the time, only when it aids and abets your vision.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>"A little less than a year ago, Tim and I debated fill flash here..."<br>

Interesting. Way more information that I think I need. How many novice photographers or nonphotographers would have a negative opinion of photos using fill flash? Maybe the more you know, the more critical you become? I do respect the photographer who wants to make that perfect shot. I'm not there yet. As a point and shooter, I don't get much respect from the big guys. Once I started using this camera, I did not enjoy as much using my 35mm SLR that has no auto anything. I have been lusting after a DSLR, but don't know if I really want to spend the money. I want to do as much as I can with this camera. I have never really experimented much, only taking pictures while on vacation with my 35mm. It sure is nice not having to change film. I can just shoot and shoot and shoot; way more than I did before. But it does get frustrating with the lack of telephoto lens.<br>

Luis G, I'm not sure what you are saying. What is GND, hotshoe-PC adapter?</p>

<p>Linda, let me help you pick up, what Luis is laying down-- in his very hip photography jargon ;-) I almost grok Luis's mouth music... or in the case of typing, finger signaling (though that sounds rude).</p>

<p>*put's on beret, orders coffee, and grows a goatee for hip ambience*</p>

<p>It's like this: the first part is talking about how your PS... that's point and shoot... camera has some hip features not available in the big boy toys. With the average 250 sync time, or a slow 160/180 on some cameras, you'll not be able to use fill flash outdoors w/o over exposing. Even in ISO 50, dat mean sun is a bright cat, and will trounce your exposure at a such a speed. Now w/ the slick 2000 sync speed, you have more options, ya dig.</p>

<p>Then Luis spits these words of wisdom at us: if you don't care about the contrast between the top scene, and the bottom-- you can get a Graduated Neutral Density filter and knock down that bright sky old school style. Google that for more 411.</p>

<p>Mr G parts w/ this: for around a Benjiman, you can get some off camera speed light stuff. There's a lot of plugs: house hold, mic style, radio plug, and PC. Lower end cameras don't come w/ a PC style plug, so you'll need an adapter that takes it, and will communicate w/ your camera through the hotshoe it sits on-- else that stuff won't jive.</p>

<p>(that was fun, but I make look back at this and think myself stupid later-- hopefully it also answered your questions. it's easy to forget that not everyone uses terms that we do so often w/ others)</p>

<p>Peace out, playas!</p>

<p>Linda, sorry about the jargon. Let's break this down...er... translate.</p>

<p>Fill flash is simply only one of many tools in a photographers' quiver, not an immoral imperative, as some would have you believe. It *is* an aesthetic decision, and, frankly, it may not be for you or just not something you want to try at this time. But it is one thing your camera can do that the 8,000 ones cannot.</p>

<p>Here is a Canon page that goes over some basics of fill-flash (with uninspired but clear, educational samples):</p>

<p>http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=106</p>

<p> The examples they are showing you are with TTL (through-the-lens) balanced flash. What I was talking about is a more primitive form of flash use, which enables you to do balanced fill-flash at far greater distances. More on that later.</p>

<p>Let's see...</p>

<p>A 'c-note' is a $100US Dollar bill.</p>

<p>A 'GND' is a graduated neutral density filter. Here's a good starter explanation:</p>

<p>http://www.nathangriffin.com/technical/how_to_graduated_nd.htm</p>

<p>A hotshoe/PC adapter is a way of adding a pc socket (forget Nathan's babble PC confusion) to your G10, which does not have one, and is required to enable its ultra-high high-speed synch abilities. This is what you need:</p>

<p>http://www.adorama.com/WNSSHSHS.html</p>

<p> See that little round silver nubbin in front? It's a pc plug. </p>

<p>I recommended a Vivitar 285 because it has a built-in ability to power down. Here is a used one (from a totally reliable seller, btw), even the BGN one would do, just scroll down a bit:</p>

<p>http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductList.aspx?Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=127&BC=VF&BCC=12&CC=21&CCC=7&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=</p>

<p>Here's a new one:</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61441-REG/Vivitar_233965_285HV_Auto_Flash.html</p>

<p>Here's the cord that connects the Vivitar 285 flash to the pc socket in the Wein unit:</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61441-REG/Vivitar_233965_285HV_Auto_Flash.html#Sync%20Cords</p>

<p>(Buy two cords, you should always carry at least one spare, since they can break) You can use the flash right on the Wein unit hot shoe, but the ability to use it off camera (in your left hand or an L-bracket (I'll leave deciphering that for you to Google, or Nathan to explain) opens up a lot of other possibilities, which we can go into later.</p>

<p>Here, a little inspiration. What your camera can do in the hands of a pro.</p>

<p>http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2726</p>

<p>Tips from world-class pros:</p>

<p>http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2726</p>

<p>You want and need this. It will make your camera heavier, bulkier, make it impossible to use the itty bitty flash in the camera, and transform your G10 into a far better instrument for making photographs:</p>

<p>http://www.adorama.com/ICALADC58K.html</p>

<p> What is it? A hollow tube, originally designed to fit accessory lenses. Forget about those for now. We're using it for other things. One end fits your camera (fitted by removing the ring at the base of the lens, and bayoneting it in) and the other end has a 58mm thread. This enables you to use 58mm thread filters, like the Graduated Neutral Density (GND), a Circular Polarizer, or protective UV filter. What is a polarizer?</p>

<p>http://www.great-landscape-photography.com/polarizing-filter.html</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/polarizers.shtml</p>

<p>You may need a thin polarizer for that G10/tube combination. Maybe not. Someone here must know, or otherwise I will find out for you. You may also be able to fit a lens shade. The tube completely seals your lens from accidental knocks, salt spray, sucking in dirt as it zooms and ambient dust (as long as you keep a filter on it) etc. Remember, the lens may be sealed, but the G10 body is NOT.</p>

<p>Again apologies for the jargon. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Should you decide to try out the ultra-high speed synch, you will need more help, particularly with making a linear flash-fill exposure dial (Got Dymo-Label maker?). It gets easier after that. </p>

<p>Feel free to contact me off list, or if you ask on this thread, send me an email, letting me know. I tend to read from the Unified Forum thing, and often lose track of threads.</p>

<p>Nathan....very funny. :-)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thanks Nathan for clearing up some things.</p>

<p>The G10 user guide says I can attach a flash bracket, off camera shoe cord, high power flash, as well as the Canon speedlites. It also says remote shooting when connected to a computer using supplied software.</p>

<p>"<em>A hollow tube, originally designed to fit accessory lenses. Forget about those for now. We're using it for other things</em>"</p>

<p>Okay Luis, whatever you say. We are going to buy the lens adapter. :) I had no interest in buying the tele-converter lens which required the use of the lens adapter. But I didn't realize the lens adapter would be useful. Cool. Now I can buy some filters. So with this tube, the G10 lens extends inside of this and the tube doesn't move?</p>

<p>So PC has nothing to do with computers.</p>

<p>Luis, thanks for all your input. I appreciate you going to the trouble of finding all the links.</p>

<p> Nathan wrote: "With the average 250 sync time, or a slow 160/180 on some cameras, you'll not be able to use fill flash outdoors w/o over exposing. Even in ISO 50, dat mean sun is a bright cat, and will trounce your exposure at a such a speed. Now w/ the slick 2000 sync speed, you have more options, ya dig."</p>

<p>Nathan's a good photographer, well-meaning, and a funny guy, but he doesn't know what he is talking about above. You easily _will_ be able to use fill-flash without overexposing. Even the tiny flash built into your camera, with its 1/250th synch will not overexpose. How?</p>

<p>Dig this, Dudes: The Canon G10 has a tres hip, three-stop Neutral Density filter *built-in*(which no DSLR has to date) precisely so the overexposure problem Nathan describes above as inevitable, can easily be avoided by anyone who has bothered to read the G10 manual, or peruse through its menus.</p>

<p>[Linda, read the manual. Religiously, and cover-to-cover, with the camera next to it, so you can see what they are talking about]</p>

<p>This feature has been in this family of cameras all the way back to the G3 (2002).</p>

<p> It was mentioned right here regarding the G10 on Photo.net on Oct 24th last year:</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/digital-camera-forum/00RGzM</p>

<p> Just spitting a little more wisdom back at you, Nathan. :-)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Linda wrote: We are going to buy the lens adapter. :)</p>

<p> Yay! It's extremely useful aside from its intended purpose. Yes, the lens trombones within the confines of the tube while the tube stays rigid, and does not change size. You will be able to (and should, as with everything else) check this out for yourself when it arrives. Canon knows what it's doing.</p>

<p>> "So PC has nothing to do with computers."</p>

<p>Not even with political correctness. This is old school, almost back to when dinosaurs and I roamed the earth. If I remember, PC stands for "Prontor Compur", Zeiss-owned companies that incorporated this electronic trigger/socket into their shutters.</p>

<p>>Luis, thanks for all your input. I appreciate you going to the trouble of finding all the links.</p>

<p> You are most welcome, Linda. Becoming intimately familiar with your gear will render it transparent and allow it to dance in your hands when taking pictures, freeing your energies to focus on, and enjoy the act of photographing.</p>

 

<p>I wish I could spit some wisdom :) </p>

<p>I know my camera has a neutral density filter. But it didn't graduate (GND?). Someone local told me it wasn't the same thing as GND. Maybe that's because he has the Singh-Ray filters ($$$).</p>

<p> Linda, you're right, the built-in filter is a mere (non-graduated) neutral density filter, meaning it doesn't fade from one end to the other, but is an even gray throughout.</p>

<p> Yes, the Singh-Rays are pricey, but they last forever, and you can use them on other lenses (58mm or smaller) later. The (circular) polarizer is also of paramount importance, and cannot be duplicated digitally. A thin multicoated circular Hoya polarizer will do.</p>

<p>BTW, the polarizer, being an even gray, can also be used as an additional -1.5 to 2 stop neutral-density filter atop the built in one. Why? Because even in bright light, using your lowest ISO, it will allow you to bring down the shutter speed so you can do blurs, or drag shutter/flash-blurs (more on that another day) should you want to.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Nathan's a good photographer, well-meaning, and a funny guy, but he doesn't know what he is talking about above. You easily _will_ be able to use fill-flash without overexposing. Even the tiny flash built into your camera, with its 1/250th synch will not overexpose. How?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Nathan occasionally uses real world experience too ;-) It will overexpose, it has over exposed-- though I did leave out a crucial part of the equation: when shooting in the aperture you want to achieve the DoF you are aiming for. Not b/c of the flash, but many times outdoors you can't shoot wider than 5.6 w/o having a shutter speed much faster than 250.</p>