Dispite best efforts, parents won't buy! I'm stumped!

you think I'd have a perfect niche: middle school plays. I have access to the

shows like no one else and the great shots to prove it. They're uploaded on

SmugMug and the smallest 4 x 6's are priced to sell at $.99. Enlargements are

naturally more.

 

got lots of traffic. Lots of hits. precious few sales. And this despite slick

flyers handed out to parents as they walked in on opening night.

 

What gives? Anyone having any kind of luck with PEOPLE WHO WON'T PAY FOR

PHOTOGRAPHY (of their precious KIDS for heaven's sake!)

 

I'm completely flummoxed. Thoughts?

 

James<div></div>

One thing to consider is that by junior high/middle school, like upper ages in youth sports, they may have been buying or watching for years and aren't as quick to buy. If the prices were good, then that's about all you could do - unless you can think of a way to get some shots in hand and have a parent "sell" the results.

Do you watermark the images? Parents and family might be getting all the pleasure they need from just seeing the pictures on the screen anytime they want.

 

Also, if they're not buying for $.99, why not up the price of a 4x6 to $4.99 (what the heck, if they're not going to buy anyways!) -- pricing too low may be giving the illusion of little value for the pictures. If they're more expensive, maybe they'll seem more valuable and worth buying.

 

Or maybe you just have a bunch of cheap parents.:-)

Maybe people are fine with just seeing the digital images. Not like these are going to be images they hang on their wall. Maybe they're taking snapshots themselves. What do your galleries look like? Are the photos worth buying? Are you offering anything unique? How are you marketing the photos and driving people to your site? From what I've seen from weddings, parents tend to buy the posed formal shots. Are you offering any images like that? Are you shooting those kinds of images or just candid stage shots?

I would think what Craig said, plus, I wonder if there is something about pictures being seen on the internet, that delays and ultimately stops people from purchaing prints? So many people these days, myself included view photos online or on the computer and simply never take the extra steps to get prints and put them in an album. It's as if they are already seen and will be there forever, even if they won't. Is there a time limit placed on how long your galleries are up online?

thanks for the quick replies.

 

The images aren't watermarked. Not a bad suggestion. The marketing is pretty in-your-face, (with a smile, of course): I made up a color flyer with an introduction of what I'm doing. At the cast party, I set up a digital projector so the kids and parents in attendance could see them on the wall, big as life. Lot's of compliments there...

 

Am I offering anything unique? Yes. I think so. No one else is taking shots of the kids performing because they're enjoying the show so much and/or they don't have a camera that's fast enough.

 

"...just candid stage shots?" Well, yes. Any snap-shooter can stand kids up against a backdrop in costume and take their pic. Not everyone can get the priceless look of surprise or emotion on an actor's face, especially with P&S digital shutter lag. "just candid stage shots?"????

 

Probably the best question is from Lauren...who is honest about her own propensity to see online and go no further.

 

Still stumped. Perhaps I'll raise my price for the smallest ones to $4.99 like Marc said....Ha!

Maybe raise your price to $4.99 and hold a "temporary price cut - 20% off for a limited time!!" Maybe people will want to beat the clock!

 

I'm a middle school teacher, but I don't usually put my school pictures up for sale - I tell kids they can have 'em if they want 'em. Occasionally, a parent will order a print or two (at $5 for a 4x6), but not often, especially when they can right-click and have it for free.

 

Best of luck....

 

Jen

Print out some of the best and get a gallery going in the lobby area. Let them see what a large quality print looks like - and charge for it. Get the emotional reaction and try for pre-orders. If you can get images up fast like that next day that could help too.

Have you thought about the possibility that the images may not be particularly, hmm.... how do I say this.. "great"?

 

Probably not if you are "completely flummoxed".

 

You report that you have access to the shows like no one else and the great shots to prove it. Perhaps, but the example image you displayed is not sharp at all. If by access, you mean some advantageous positioning, it doesn't seem so special. It looks like you are in the audience where everyone else normally is. I don't see how the sample stands out as 'professional' vs. what some of the ordinary parents might capture.

 

Some may be enthusiastic to the point of a right click but not inspired in general.

If that's representative of the previews you have, I wouldn't buy.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Photos are "right-click" protected.

 

For others who do not find photos of other people's kids particularly inspiring, I'm with you. But think about it: For the price of a pizza at a bowling alley a parent could have an 11x17 framed and on the wall, making them smile every time they walk by. More so after the kid leaves the house. Parents will go to great lengths to photograph their kids, heck, it's what drives a certain portion of the P&S market.

 

John, you may not see what is so special about this shot or that shot, but since *I* got the shot and the parent didn't, you'd think...well, I'm not sure what you'd think.<div></div>

...and the originals are sharp. And the highlights aren't blown like it appears here. There's just so much you can do w/72 pixels per inch and under 100KB file sizes.

 

Please keep in mind that I'm thinking about parental psychology here. I don't want to discuss technicalities. Despite the fact that a middle school play has upwards of 30 kids in it, not all of their performances are particularly inspired, and some are on stage for only a few seconds. You know, you do what you can despite all the variables you can't control. (Don't get me started on different colour temps that lighting designers use)

 

But the point is, it's always *someone's* kid, and they're so very proud of their son or daughter. And, they *didn't* get the shot.

<i>Please keep in mind that I'm thinking about parental psychology here.</i><p>

 

Then maybe you should try a different forum since this isn't a psychology forum. Either that or ask a couple of the parents why they aren't interested in buying. Having shot numerous events, my experience has been that you have to do something significantly different than what parents could do, or think they could do, and that isn't showing here. For children's theater, I've brought portable studio-type lighting and photographed each child in costume in front of a part of the set. Works very well, no parent could do that.<p>

 

<i>Photos are "right-click" protected.</i><p>

 

There's no such thing.

If photography was only about being in an advantagous spot we'd all be great and

everyone would buy our prints.

 

There's no such thing as an easy ride, or a cheap one either. You deffinately seem to have

your market, but I'm not sure the product your supplying is unique enough.

 

Parents probably think it's their kid, in a shool's play, why should they pay for the images,

unless they are really something. Not just snaps from a good position.

 

Keep doing it and get better, try to be more original, see it like they wouldn't. You will

always have the trouble though that your subject is amerture and sets okay but void of

atmosphere. No matter it's Bobies first play. The only advice I can give, is to concentrate

on the parts where people are laughing and smiling. They always sell, but they're hard to

get. People only want a picture on their wall of family 9 times out of 10 because they're

smiling.

"Anyone having any kind of luck with PEOPLE WHO WON'T PAY FOR PHOTOGRAPHY (of their precious KIDS for heaven's sake!)"

 

Your language is instructive, even in jest. Nobody *owes* you and you have no natural *right* to have people buy your pictures. People part with their hard-earned cash when you have something they value - and what you've proved is that people don't value your pictures.

 

So - you can improve the pictures, or you can try a different market. Slick flyers will not sell a product that nobody wants.

 

By the way, the pictures you've posted aren't great. Aside from technical issues (white balance, sharpness etc) you don't appear to have captured the "moment" - admittedly not an easy thing to to do, but important if your pictures are to be seen as something worth shelling out for.

Sorry, but I don't see an example that would tempt me to reach for my wallet - even if my own kids were in the photo. Your compositions are weak and the lighting is poor.

-- "Photos are "right-click" protected."

 

-- "There's no such thing."

 

Indeed, there isn't.

 

James, are you aware, that with a picture of the quality and size as shown above (Anne Franks diary) you can (with a little bit of time) already produce a 4*6 print with a quality that might be good enough for some people. If thats what is displayed for online selection, some people might just download the images and print them on their own (or wath them locally) ... Watermarking (with a visible watermark) might be the way to go.

Too many distracting elements. I'd crop out the left side of the picture in the Anne Frank photo. Crop so that the male actor's back is close to the left frame. I's also crop out the coat on the bed at right (but leave room for the actress's gaze to the right) and I'd remove the window frame at top that intrudes on a slight diagonal into the picture.

 

Composition counts. Try a longer lens for tighter shots and frame carefully with normal and wide angle lenses.

Right click protection: Hahahahahahaaa<p>

 

Market the photos via children like toys are marketed. You sell the need to the kids and they'll take care that the parents buy. Yes, it totally unethical but it's done every day on the TV. Toy commercials come inbetween children's programs not inbetween Lost and Grey's anatomy or what ever.<p>

 

Right click protected ha hahahhahhahaaaa

Right click yeah<div></div>

Hi James

 

I provide a similar service in the UK to schools and generally the uptake is low. I did however notice an improvement when I started shooting at the dress rehearsal and could have images ready for opening night, with a flyer in the programme.

 

Shooting at the dress rehearsal also allows for shots that parents couldn't take, for example, shoot from areas of the stage, stage left/right looking across to the actors. With assistance form the director, at dress rehearsal it is possible to "stage" the actors into positions that they would not normally be in in the actual play, this is done more for saleability than anything. It will also allow you to use flash where required. Stage lighting is designed to light the subjects for the benefit of the audience and the atmosphere of the play, not for a photographer.

 

To make the actors feel at ease, I usually attend a couple of rehearsals beforehand and take candid head shots, this allows the cast to get used to me wandering about and after a while i just become part of the scenery and they forget about me. This is also the chance to get some shots that can be used in the school year book and the programme for the play. Do this free, and just ask for a picture credit and an advert in exchange

 

I also spend a bit of time in PS cropping and balancing the RAW images so that I can get something that is closer to what the eye perceives in stage lighting not quite a true white balance.

 

Something that does seem to be creating more interest is B & W images for classic plays.

 

Good Luck

 

Simon<div></div>

I just photographed a church play. I put them on Smugmug, and no one cared. They all wanted the pictures that I had on CD, so I made a CD for each of them, and charged them for that. It was more of a practice thing for me (haven't had enough nerve to post any here), but I was happy with them considering there were no backgrounds, it was done in the school cafeteria.

IMO, the value of an image is far less than it used to be. 35 years ago I would photograph a local theater group. I'd do all the shots during dress rehearsal, so I could be up on the stage right in the middle of things. It was Tri-X and existing light, sometimes with a little help from a bounce or fill flash. I'd print 5x7s and sell them for something like $2 or so. I think an 8x10 was $5. I had far more orders than I wanted to print. No competition from anybody because they couldn't get the shots during the performance. No right-clicking because no mice, no computers, no Internet. I can't imagine trying to make money doing non-BTB photography today.

There's many responses to your comments James.

 

"For the price of a pizza at a bowling alley a parent could have an 11x17 framed and on the wall"

 

Someone already commented that these are not the type of pictures that would make it to the wall. They are probably right.

 

"More so after the kid leaves the house. Parents will go to great lengths to photograph their kids"

 

Have you really ever seen a crop of kid's pictures go up on the wall when they finally leave the nest? Really?

 

"Since *I* got the shot and the parent didn't, you'd think...well, I'm not sure what you'd think."

 

I would think, If I were the parent, that someone is trying to sell me unsharp pictures of my child.

 

"There's just so much you can do w/72 pixels per inch and under 100KB file sizes."

 

Just about everyone else on this site is able to produce sharp looking images under such conditions. Spend two minutes surfing the web and there will be countless images that appear sharp and not blown out.

 

"Please keep in mind that I'm thinking about parental psychology here."

 

If you are "completely flummoxed" you should consider looking inward, not at other's psychology. It doesn't take a psychologist to figure out that people tend to buy images if the sample they see looks good.

 

"But the point is, it's always *someone's* kid, and they're so very proud of their son or daughter. And, they *didn't* get the shot."

 

Its the lowest common denominator again. The pictures still need to look good.

 

On apositive note, Simon has some good ideas to make the pictures more special. Again, you will need to display the images to look good on the computer screen or whatever medium you are displaying for them.

James,

 

Ah, the problems of the artist's life ;-(

 

Have you looked around the auditorium and seen the number of glowing DVCam screens? Observed the flashes from the P&S, or even DSLRs in the hands of parents? What are you offering that they can't get themselves. The last is paramount - your shots must be exceptional. Finally, what is your advertising and marketing scheme? I generally shoot for the sole use of management. If you intend to sell photos, you need their permission and support, and probably a flier to include with the programs. You will need releases on file from the participants (typically, part of the production process).

 

For starters, nobody can get good pictures (composition) during a performance - you are too restricted in movement and decorum. You will get your best shots during the dress rehearsal(s), provided you have the support of the producers. In any case, you must be thoroughly familiar with the play in order to anticipate the "dramatic" moments, and have the proper equipment in your hands. I make extensive use of a Nikkor 70-200 VR, with a second body and a 28-70 for broader shots. There's no time to be switching lenses or setting up a tripod. Forget about flash unless you have time to set up lighting for staged shots.