Daylight processing for 4X5 B&W

Well the title pretty much says it all. I am looking for recommendations to develop 4X5 in daylight. I do not have

access to a dark room and don't really have a place to build one. So I am looking at things like the Combi tank or the

Yankee cut film tank.

Are there others out there? Any information will be greatly appreciated.

 

Michael

I use the Jobo Expert Drum, model 3006. It's not cheap, but is probably the easiest to use, with the most consistent results, and uses a small amount of chemicals. The Paterson Orbit, if you can find one, is also a good solution. Search photo.net for Yankee and Combi and you'll see plenty of comments about the problems those solutions have.

I just started processing 4X5 B&W last month and didn't want to invest in additional equipment at this time. I found that by

using my Patterson System 4 tank (the one that holds 4/35mm reels or 2/120 reels) I can develop two sheets at a

time. Using D-76, I agitate (inversion method) for the first minute and then for five seconds every thirty seconds. I am

getting excellent results. I use 1100ml of chemistry for this process. I am able to re-use the D-76 for a total of six sheets as

long as I use it within a week. After one week or six sheets (whichever comes first) I discard it.

<a href=http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/index1.html>Jobo 2500 series processing drums/reels</a> are the only

way to go. I tried both brands you mentioned before I got my first Jobo tank.

I second the Jobo 2500 series suggestion. I use one, and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. <br>

The Expert Drums are perhaps easier to load, but they are still far from perfect and are much more expensive.

I haven't mentioned this, but now I realize it's not necessarily common knowledge, so you may not know it: you

don't need a processor for the 2500 series Jobo. Just roll the tank by hand, back and forth, on the counter or in

a try filled with tempered water. That's what I do, and I never got uneven development so far (well, I did once,

but that was entirely my fault, so it doesn't count). Or you could get a cheap roller base.

I'm very happy with my Combi-Plan tank. I can develop up to 6 sheets at a time, and the results are excellent. Just be sure to invert gently and parallel to the film. I popped a film loose the first time I used it.

The Combi-Plan and Jobo tanks work well, BTZS tubes are another option as are old Cibachrome or Beseler print tanks, although some of these can be quite large. Using a stainless steel tank with one or two sheets at a time, depending on how many you can fit in at once without getting the sheets overlapping, works well for small numbers of sheets too. Just stay away from the Yankee tanks though, as they tend to have an inordinate number of issues.

 

- Randy

One more thing. I've read (but not personally experienced) that sometimes the anti-halation backing does not come off easily when developing in some types of tubes for development, so a wash of the film outside of the tubes is a good idea, *after fixing the film*. This backing needs to come off so that you can print the negatives properly, but it's a really simple thing to do and should not deter you from trying tube development.

 

- Randy

I use the Yankee tank. Follow their agitation instructions closely or you'll get surge marks around the edges.

Thanks folks for all the information

On the Jobo tank where do you find the real? I don't see it at B&H and when I click on the where to buy link on the Jobo web site it crashes my browser.

Stuart

How do you load the film in the Paterson tank?

<a href=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25534-REG/Jobo_J2509N_4x5_Sheet_Film_Reel.html><u>This</u></a> is

the reel. It can hold up to six sheets of 4x5", 9x12cm or 6x9cm. If you buy used, make sure you get the 2509n,

with an n, not the 2509. The 2509 had some problems which were solved by the 2509n.

I now use a HP-Combi tank set up for when I need to do about 4-6 sheets at a time but if only doing one or two I use the BTZs tubes for that: and yes from time to time the anti-halation backing , leaves some behind but is goes away in the wash cycle : Otherwise no Problem , Oh Yes its much easyer to bring four oz's of solution down to temp than 32 oz ! [LOL]

Thank you Vlad

Hi Michael, Combi Plan tanks wrok well, I use three: Dev, Stop, Fix. The Fixer one has the capped fange bottom spout as well as a spouted lid so to hook up a hose for washing. It's super convenient - don't waste time with the funnels they provide, the liquids fill too slowly I think.. On another important note: you know that you'll still COMPLETE darkness to load the film, right? "Daylight" tank only describes the processing. You can also dev 12 sheets at one time, I use cut nylon window screen between each film sheet (back to back) to insert 2 sheets of film in each of the six slots. The nylon screen is just about 2mm. shorter on each side than the 4x5 film. Just don't push the holding clip down to tight. Good luck.

Vic

Thanks for the heads up but this is not my first time developing film. Just the first time I have needed to do 4X5 with out a darkroom

 

Michael

Mike,

 

I had the same question and looked for advice over on largeformatphotography.info (fine folks, by the way). Each tank has its firm fans and detractors. It's kind of like asking about somebody's favorite beer. I wound up buying an old "FR" tank because the local camera shop had one on the used-equipment shelf. Honestly, I would suggest trying to find the first convenient one and just trying it out.

Michael,

 

This is how I use the Patterson tank. I place the film into the tank emulsion side out. Hope this helps.

 

Stu<div></div>

#2<div></div>

I tried the yankee tank for 4x5 but didn't like the huge volume of chemistry needed.

So, I picked up a used Unicolor Drum and Unicolor roller base from that big auction site for about $15.

 

It does 4 sheets at a time and only uses 200ml of chemistry.

So far I have been happy with the results.

I have been considering this same question since getting a 4x5 some months ago. From what I can see, for stuff available new, there are three main options:

 

(1) Jobo system (roller base, $25; 2523 or 2521 drum, $49 or $43, respectively; 2508 film loader base, $60; 2509N reel, $29; and 2512 film guide, $34), total about $200 at B&H. Questions: (1a) do you reall need all those parts, or are there some that you will be nearly as happy without, (1b) can you use the roller base semi-submerged in a water bath for temperature control, (1c) does this system use continuous 'inversion' (rolling) to keep all the film wetted with chemistry, and (1d) can you really develop 6 sheets of 4x5 film with 270 ml of chemistry, and if not, how much do you need?!

 

(2) Combi-Plan tank, $85 at B&H. Questions: (2a) how much chemistry does it need and (2b) given the fill and drain issues, can you really use it effectively (i.e., with even, controllable results, assuming 6 to 10 min dev times) as a daylight tank?

 

(3) Yankee tank, $15 at B&H. Questions: (3a) is it suitable for daylight processing and (3b) do you have to get sheet film hangers elsewhere (and at added expense)?

 

Thanks all for the comments!

P.S.

 

I currently use Paterson Super System IV tanks that take 2 rolls of 120 / 220 or 3 rolls of 35mm, and 1 roll 120 / 2 rolls 35mm. Is there a decent 4x5 reel that fits one or both tanks? Because I'm pretty happy with the Paterson system, and the rolls I have work great for 35mm, 127, and 120, but obviously would not take 4x5.

Another alternative is the Nikor Products 4x5 sheet film tank. About $125 to $180 used on eBay. Fill and drain times are rather slow, although better if you manage to get the later "Quick Pour" version of the tank. Still, either version probably fills and drains faster than the Combi-Plan. If you were doing color, you would want to fill the tank, and put the reel in in the dark. (You can do this in a junk changing bag in a pinch.)

 

Forget the Yankee and FR tanks, they are just evil. Almost nobody can get uniformly developed film with them.

 

For the Jobo 2521/2509n, you can only use the low volume of chemicals with a roller base, or in a Jobo processing machine, with continual rotary agitation. For manual inversion processing, you have to fill it up to the top, circa one liter of chemicals.

 

The Jobo 3000-series expert drums are processing machine only.

 

Dirt-cheapest way is "taco" processing. Roll up a sheet into a cylinder, put a few rubber bands around it, toss it in a stainless steel tank with several more. You would need a 30-ounce size tank.

I'm using an old Unicolor print drum (Unidrum) and the matching Uniroller base. I had both items on hand from an

old family darkroom, but I'm sure you can find them on eBay. You can develop four sheets at once if you find or

fashion a separator to keep the film from overlapping, or two sheets without a separator. It works well.

 

This page is very informative:

 

4x5 Unicolor Drum Development

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

"(2) Combi-Plan tank, $85 at B&H. Questions: (2a) how much chemistry does it need and (2b) given the fill and drain issues, can you really use it effectively (i.e., with even, controllable results, assuming 6 to 10 min dev times) as a daylight tank? "

 

(a) 1 liter.

 

(b) I get even, controllable results, bu I usually develop for about 12 minutes. I've gone to 10 min without problem, but haven't tried lower as I move to higher dilutions for compensating effects.