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D810 or D750 for Birth Photography


r._bond

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<p>I have just started building my portfolio to get into birth photography, where obviously, there can be little to no light at times. I purchased the D810 before the announcement of the 750 was made. I really love the 810, but I'm wondering if the 750 would best fit my needs due to its high ISO capabilities and being able to focus at -3ev. I keep reading how it can practically focus in the dark and it handles high ISO beautifully. There were times at my last birth, where my D810 could not focus due to the low light and I am awful at manual focusing.<br>

Also, due to the high MP on the 810, I'm thinking the photos taken at high ISOs would be more noisy than if taken with the D750. Is that the case?<br>

I would love to hear your thoughts on the 2 cameras based on my needs. I have a short window now where I can exchange out the 810 for the 750, if I should so choose.</p>

<p>Thank you so much in advance. </p>

<p> </p>

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<p>For birth photography, you certainly don't need 36MP. I haven't used the D750, but its AF system is only another minor improvement on the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module. Until Nikon fundamentally replaces that module to something with more cross-type AF points, I wouldn't expect any significant AF improvement over the D810, which uses the second latest incarnation of that module.</p>

<p>The Df would be a step backward in terms of AF capability. Its sensor is the 2.5-year-old one from the D4; that is also getting out of date.</p>

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<p>Except for medical reasons, I'm not sure that 36MP is all that necessary for birth. Initial reports (at least, the few I've read) suggest that the D810 is very slightly noisier than the D800e (though it has less-optimised raw converters and appears not to clip the low end, so it's hard to see whether that's significant) and the D750 is slightly better than both; without seeing a full analysis, I'd expect them both still to lag the Df/D4/D4s and possibly D3s (or a Canon 6D), but not for there to be a huge amount in it. On a pixel level, I've no doubt that the D750 would be significantly ahead of the D810; scaled to the same image size, I'd expect the differences to be very small. In that comparison, a D800 and D610 are essentially identical, for example.<br />

<br />

If you feel you don't need the D810, the D750 obviously gives you a lot of money back to spend on fast glass. My feeling is that the D810 is the higher-end camera, and its disadvantages compared with the D750 are small, but if you don't need it, you don't need it. If your exchange option means you've paid D810 money for a D750, I'd probably stay with the D810; if you get money back (or the ability to buy some more glass, or flash, or reflectors) then I can see why you'd consider that.<br />

<br />

Is the "low light" thing just a matter of not disturbing the situation? Daft question: if you're right up against the limits of sensor technology (and all these cameras are pretty close to theoretical limits in terms of performance), how would you feel about shooting in infrared? If you were to convert a camera, you could apply some near infrared lights without disturbing anyone, maybe even as a strobe. The D70 is known to adapt to IR easily - I'm not sure about, say, a D5300, but it might be worth considering (if you want to keep a colour FX body).</p>

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<p>Shun, so the AF system on the 750 is just a touch better than the 810? What about noise capabilities? Would the 750 be much better at handling high noise than the 810? Grain is a part of birth photography as many births happen in dark rooms, but I would want the least grain possible. I'm not a fan of noise. <br>

Yes, Chip. This is very real. Look up birth photography. You will see some amazing photographs. and Moms love them.</p>

 

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<p>Oh, and I didn't buy the 810 necessarily for the 36 mp. At the time I purchased it, the 750 wasn't out yet and I do not like the clustered focus points of the 610. The D4s is way out of my budget, so that isn't an option. <br>

Besides birth photography, I mainly shoot children, so a fast AF system is needed.</p>

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<p>Dan, WRT the Df's AF ability, DPREVIEW has this to say -<br>

"The biggest problem isn't the limited coverage of the focus system - it's its effectiveness in low light. Although rated down to -1EV, the performance of the Df's focus drops off significantly at even moderate indoor lighting levels. Even at an illumination level of around 4.5EV, we've found the camera has to 'hunt' to find focus, and the only reliable way of getting a shot was to use the central focus point to focus-and-recompose from a high-contrast point."</p>

<p>So why would they write that?</p>

<p>Nikon's own specifications only rate the Df's AF detection range at -1 to 19 EV, while the specs for the D810 and D750 are -2 to 19 EV, and -3 to 19 EV respectively.</p>

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<p>I had an opportunity to test the D810's high-ISO capability. IMO it shows no improvement over the D800E that I have in a side-by-side comparison. The Df maybe half a stop better after you down sample the 36MP image from the D800 to 16MP for a fair comparison. The one Nikon DSLR that is clearly better than all of those is the D4S (with the S, not the original D4); that explains why Nikon rates the D4S to ISO 25600.</p>

<p>If your objective is to shoot at high ISO, e.g. 3200 and higher, IMO getting a D800 or D810 is a waste of money. The way to take full advantage of 36MP is to use them at ISO 100 (or 64 for the D810) or at most 200 to 400 on a tripod. Once you reach ISO 3200, 6400, the noise smears the image so much that 36MP is meaningless; all you get are huge image files that take up a lot of space on your memory cards and hard drives (as well as in the cloud).</p>

<p>A few people have used both the D810 and D750, such as Ellis. Since I haven't used a D750, I'll leave that to those who have actual experience with the D750. There are a few early reviews for the D750. It seems to get high praises. However, I classify it a D600/D7000 type camera with similar controls as them. The D300/D700/D800/D810 have higher-end controls and features, such as the 10-pin connector.</p>

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<p>The D750 has Nikon's newest AF module which is more sensitive in low light that it's predecessor in the D810 and D4s. This may be a consideration, but I would think having the camera as quiet as possible is more important, and the D810 is perhaps Nikon's quietest FX DSLR. The D810 has slightly better SNR than D800 or D800E according to DXOMark's measurements, but the differences here are subtle. There isn't all that much data on the D750's sensor performance or real world use for that matter. An advantage it has is the tilt screen which might help you get better angles in tight spaces. Other than that I would stick to what you already have i.e. the D810. By the way I don't find the differences between the various implementations of 3500 sensor AF modules in Nikons to be at all subtle. But the fact that Nikon didn't put the D750's AF system into the D810 suggests to me that they wanted something that is well tested and accurate for the D810, which it turned out to be at least in my camera. The D750 may have gotten the new module so that users can report feedback on it before it gets to the professional models.</p>

<p>Anyway, I would go with what you already have. For lenses, I think 50/1.4, 20/1.8, 28/1.8 could be very useful.</p>

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<p>For the work you are doing, you might consider using an SU-800 flash commander (without commanding any flash units) to provide a very effective focus assist lamp. Unlike the white assist lamp in many Nikon bodies, the one on the SU-800 (and NIkon flashes) is barely visible. Here <a href="/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00XmsY"><strong>is a thread</strong></a> in which I asked about this, before purchasing an SU-800. Lorne Sunley's reply in that thread was particularly helpful.</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>So, besides the 36 mp, what would the advantages be of having the d810 over the 750 for birth and children photography?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>First of all, while I have photographed quite a few children, I have no experience with birth photography.</p>

<p>In my opinion, the D810 has essentially no advantage over the D750 for that type of photography. The D810 does have a quieter shutter/mirror, but children are usually not quiet and I can't imagine that it is all that silent inside a delivery room. The D810 has a shutter that is rated to 200K actuations while the D750 is 150K. The D810 has slightly faster flash sync (1/250 vs. 1/200 sec).</p>

<p>And if anything, 36MP is a disadvantage because you'll have some huge image files. However, 24MP will give you about 2/3 of the image file size; those files aren't exactly small, either.</p>

<p>I think the real question is how many actuations you already have on that D810 and whether you can still get a full refund to get the D750, which is $1000 cheaper. Whether that is the ethical thing to do is up to you to decide.</p>

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<p>Moose Peterson had a comment on his blog yesterday regarding the shutter noise of the D750.<br>

In his words: "... but the shutter when you fire the camera sounds like an old carousel projector with a slide jammed in the gate. It just isn’t sexy sounding."<br>

This might be an issue for you in the delivery room. The D810 on the other hand has probably of one of the quietest DSLR shutter.<br>

Regarding the 36 mp, they can be helpful if you crop a lot. I assume you work in tight corners and that finding the optimal shooting position might not always be easy.<br>

As others have mentioned a fast lens would be a great help. I would choose a fast (1.4 or 1.8) lens over the convenience of a zoom. First because it would help AF, and second because it would allow me to throw the scatter of a busy environment out of focus.</p>

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<p>I doubt that you will find any real noticeable difference in AF between the two (D750 and D810), and if anything, the D810 may have slightly better high ISO performance (perhaps) due to downsampling. I think it would be difficult to see any real difference unless you printed a 6' poster and were looking at it from 12" away.</p>

<p>I would keep the D810.</p>

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<p>To the OP, I wonder what lenses you were using with the D810. For birth, I would guess something like the 85mm/f1.8 AF-S or 50mm/f1.4 or f1.8 AF-S would do a great job. Regardless of whether you end up with the D810 or D750, make sure that you use the center three columns of cross-type AF points (3x5 = 15 cross type, when the camera is in the horizontal orientation). Those with an f1.8, f1.4 lens should give you the best results under dim light.</p>

<p>On the D600 the OP had before or the Df, it would be the center 3x3 matrix of 9 cross-type AF points.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Except for medical reasons, I'm not sure that 36MP is all that necessary for birth.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What medical reason are we talking about? NAS? :-)</p>

<p>P.S. I have heard that some people would video record the birth. I am not sure why and whom those parents are going to watch the footage with. The whole idea is unusual to me.</p>

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<p><< I am not sure why and whom those parents are going to watch the footage with. The whole idea is unusual to me.>></p>

<p>Kind of has me going "huh?" too. My wife wouldn't let even me take a photo of her with either of our kids until a couple of hours later when she could recompose herself, so to speak. Anyway, thanks for not making me feel like the only "antique" on the forum. ;-)</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

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<p>I think birth photography might be a relatively new thing :)<br>

I started with the Sigma 35 1.4 but switched to my Tamron 24-70 when I noticed the 35 was front focusing (had to fine tune later). I have the 50 1.4 and 85 1.8, but I needed wider than those.</p>

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<p>Sounds like a job for the Sony A7S, low light king;) Its "only" 12 mp, but how big do you need. An easy camera to hand hold and get a decent shutter speed due to its astounding low light capability. Photographers like Canadian Ted Grant have done it with Leica film cameras for years, working right in the operating room. I think quietness is a requirement as well, no? Or not so much? Do you really want to shoot the 800/810 in really low light with probably a relatively low shutter speed?</p>
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<p>I sincerely doubt there will be a big difference between the D810 and the D750 <em>in real life </em>results. For sure there are differences, but I wonder if "birth photography" really need the advantage of one over another.<br /> If there isn`t enough light to use the AF on a D810, I wonder about the benefit of having one stop higher sensibility, and if you`ll really notice it. <br /> And, maybe it`s only me, but for professional portraiture I see on the huge image size of the D810 an advantage. Not needed of course for most of my work, but good for post processing, to make big enlargements, etc. (well, I can say I have done <em>a lot</em> of "birth photography", -actually, baby photos-, with a D200, D300 and D700, and why not, many of them done in film!, most of the times with a 105/2.8 macro, and a 24/2.8 as well).<br /> As many times cameras are not dedicated to only one specific kind of photography but for versatility, I`d think on all parameters, not only noise or one more EV in the AF. I understand "birth photography " is not limited to "surgery room" photos. Don`t get fooled by NAS.<br /> BTW, "birth photography" or baby photography is not new, for sure many of us know Anne Geddes`calendars (amongst others). She use medium format cameras.</p>
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