Discussion in 'Nikon' started by barbara_king, Nov 16, 2013.
Can anyone tell me the difference between the d610 and d800? Than you for any input.
Are you looking for all the specs, or have you looked at D800/D600 comparisons before? The D610 isn't much different than the D600, and the specs are easy to find online. The D800 is 36mp vs 24mp on the D610, so the D800 files will be larger on your computer. D800 is a heavier (and I believe more weather sealed) body, 51 af points vs 39, but the D610 shoots 6fps vs 4fps on the D800. Are you new to photography? What type of shooting do you do?
The quick version : 33% more pixels, better autofocus, better viewfinder, and greater dynamic range in the D800. Downside of the D800: if it will be used for shooting portraits moire patterning in fabrics will be more pronounced.
The tiny coverage of the 39 point AF can be a real headache when you shoot portraits.
D610 uses the D7100 as a base - for control layout. D800 is closer to the D700 but is still it's own beast. It uses the buttons and dials to change modes - not the knob that is present on the 610.
Thanks for the info. I'm looking for full frame for portrait and nature photography. I have a d90
My feeling is if you aren't sure, you don't need a d800. The d610 (or even d600) will save you a ton of money and you likely won't notice the difference.
D610 can shoot faster (fps), is a lot lighter, has better liveview (real 100%), has two SD slots, has smaller files (process faster in lightroom, more shots in the same space), is easier to use for those coming from lower end cameras (works the same), easier to use for non-photographers (more exposure modes), better for those with glasses (higher eyepoint), works with Nikon's WU-1b for easy connection to smartphones/tablets, has a better LCD that adjusts to ambient light levels, has better high iso, makes less noise (shutter) and is less money.
thank you for all the response. It really helps
For portraits, a used D800. For "nature" (assuming you mean wildlife--the term is VERY broad) get a D7100. Now, after you buy something, let us know if ANY of your actual customers can tell any difference in your shots. ;-)
Kent in SD
Ergonomics are the biggest difference. When it comes to IQ, you probably won't see any difference (according to the DXOMark scores, they should both deliver pretty much identical IQ).
Barbara, The D610/600 has a higher frame rate than the D800/800e 6 frames a second vs 4 frames a second which I believe is significant and like the D800/e a fairly large buffer 27 images for the D610/600 vs 25 for the D800/e. That is fairly good for the D600/610 given the large size of the file at 24 megapixels. Your absolutely going to love the dynamic range for shooting landscapes and color depth along with high ISO ability for candid images in low light. I have been able to shoot in candle light with f1.4 glass. The D90 is a great camera but I believe you will see a real difference with land scape and low light with either D800 or D610. I own a D800e with vertical grip and D3s and recently used the D600 with vertical grip. It handles extremely well at the end of a long lens with the vertical grip but with the vertical grip removed it seems more compact than the D800/e and easier to conceal. The D600 seems like a great nature camera, landscape and portrait camera with moot compromises IMHO. The images from the D600/610 are large so make sure you have a MAC or PC that can handle them. I prefer the eye piece on the D800e and that kind of take us back to Elliot's comment about ergonomics which make the decision more personal than technical. Good hunting.
No-one has yet mentioned lenses, which I think is vital to this choice.
Babara, if you already have a collection of pro quality lenses - i.e. 24-70 f/2.8 Zoom Nikkor, 70-200 f/2.8 Zoom Nikkor, 50mm f/1.4G, etc. - then you might just notice a difference in IQ between a D800 and a D610. However, if you only have lesser glassware - kit or consumer grade lenses for example - then you most likely won't see any difference at all. You don't have to spend thousands on lenses to make the most of the D800, but you certainly need to select carefully among the choices out there, and if starting from scratch, your budget for lenses should be several times the cost of the camera body. The D610 will only be slightly more forgiving, and still needs 'prosumer' grade glass to show what it can do.
Remember; a camera is really only as good as the lens on it (and the photographer of course).
Another point that's been missed is that the D800 is effectively an 18 megapixel DX camera, as well as a 36 megapixel full-framer. Add a DX lens to the D800 and you've still got a camera that can deliver very high image quality. The D610, not so much so.
WRT this statement about the D800 "...moire patterning in fabrics will be more pronounced." - IME, not.
I haven't noticed a single moiré issue worth bothering about with my D800. And in any case, moiré interference depends on a repetitive pattern in the subject being close to that of the pixel spacing of the camera. This can happen to any digital camera with any type of fabric, depending only on the coarseness of fabric and magnification. A coarse fabric with a low pixel count or fine fabric and a high pixel count can both cause problems. The effect is actually more prominent with coarse fabrics and low(er) resolution cameras, and in reality the D800 helps to suppress moiré in all but the finest of fabrics. I think you'd have to be photographing silk chiffon scarves a lot for this to be a real issue to you.
Wow! Thank you for sharing all this knowledge. I have a nikkor24-85 f2.8 which I love and nikkor50 f1.4 is it necessary to invest in 24-70 f2.8 for good portraits?
Wow! Thank you for sharing all this knowledge. I have a nikkor24-85 f2.8 which I love and nikkor50 f1.4 is it necessary to invest in 24-70 f2.8 for good portraits?NO! A D7100 (for example) along with your 50 f1.4 will take beautiful portraits. As long as you aren't pushing the ISO over 1600-3200 (which you shouldn't be doing for portraits), the prints will be indistinguishable from each other.
I recommend the D610, but I offer these caveats:
If you have a fast computer with lots of space--as well as more money--you might want to think about the D800. I have shot both the D600 and the D800E, and the D800/D800E really gives better results overall. (I currently shoot the D800E.) Even so, there are other considerations besides image quality pure and simple.
The D800 has fifty percent more pixels than the D600/610 (36 v. 24). It is slower to shoot, but in portrait shooting that should not be a problem. The D800E does have a tendency to show more moiré, but I have not seen it in my style of shooting--but it could show up in fabrics. The D800 has no greater tendency to show moiré than the D600/D610, but the D800E has that greater tendecy--look at the differences between the D800 and the D800E if that concerns you--and it probably should if your pictures are going to show fabrics or other repeating patterns.
All around, the D600/610 is simpler to deal with, and it is less expensive.
If you are interested in doing landscapes in addition to portraits, on the other hand, the D800 will give more detail.
You will definitely spend more time processing the huge files of the D800, and for portrait work I doubt that you will need that much data.
Kent offers some good advice. Do you have the quality lenses needed for a FX camera body with a high megapixel sensor? If you do not, you need to include them into your decision/budget. You will need fast cards for any camera you decide to get if nature/wildlife means action shooting. Getting the image from the camera’s buffer to the card quickly is very important. Consider cards with these features (based on SD cards): SDHC cards for D 610 and second slot for D 800--With write speeds up to 90 MB/s up to 95 MB/sec (633X) read speed. Write speed up to 90 MB/s (600X). These links might help you decide what to get:
I have a D 610, D 300s and a D 700. Joe Smith
"The D800 has fifty percent more pixels"
It doesn't have 50% more resolution or IQ. In fact, the D600/D610 and D800 give pretty much the same IQ.
"The D800 has fifty percent more pixels" -- LK
It doesn't have 50% more resolution or IQ.--Elliot B.Elliot is correct on that point. A camera that would have twice the resolution of the D610 would have to have four times the megapixels: 4 x 24 mp = 96 mp
Megapixels are spread over a surface area (a square function), but resolution is based on linear measurements (line pairs per millimeter).
If we say that the D800 has 1.5 times the megapixels of the D610, we can also say that the square root of 1.5 (which is 1.225) will give an indication of the resolution advantage. That is, the resolution advantage is 1 + .225, that is, 22.5% greater.
In fact, the D600/D610 and D800 give pretty much the same IQ.In my opinion, a 22.5% resolution advantage is very substantial. Whether one wants to call that "image quality" will depend on the size of the print.
If 54 megapixels could be packed onto a FF sensor, then the resolution advantage over the D800 would be the same as that of the D800 over the D610 (22.5%). Obviously, at some point there is a point of diminishing returns.
The D800 does have better colors and dynamic range than the D610, in my opinion--and that is about image quality.
In spite of those advantages, the D610 should do fine for portrait work. We passed the resolution threshold on portrait work a long way back, since portraits are not typically going to require huge prints.
"I haven't noticed a single moiré issue worth bothering about with my D800. " It really depends on three things: primarily the subject; size of subject pattern as reproduced on the sensor; and how accurately the subject pattern is actually resolved (focus) on the sensor (focus). If you like to shoot wide open for shallow depth of field portraits you are likely not to see it. But I've seen moire with both D800 and D800E show up in architectural subjects ( brick buildings) as well as woven fabrics. but neither the D800 or Nikon are unique in their ability to create moire in a subject. I've had show up with good lenses on Canon bodies as well.
In my opinion, a 22.5% resolution advantage is very substantial. Whether one wants to call that "image quality" will depend on the size of the print.That's just in theory, not in real life. In real life today the very best lenses shot under the most optimal conditions in a lab will render slightly more than 10% higher resolution on the D800 versus D600. So 50% more pixels for 10% higher resolution under lab conditions.
For some people looking for the best resolution a dslr can provide they choose the D800 (most likely the D800E). But I think most have chosen the D800 for other reasons and some early adopters also because the D600/D610 wasn't yet available at the time so they didn't have a real choice in the matter.
In real life today the very best lenses shot under the most optimal conditions in a lab will render slightly more than 10% higher resolution on the D800 versus D600. So 50% more pixels for 10% higher resolution under lab conditions.Pete, I have no objective basis for challenging those numbers, but would you mind sharing where you got them? My subjective impression is that the D800E at least gives substantially better than that, but I have no real basis for offering a particular number.
D800 v. D600
Here was Scott Kelby's recommendation when the primary comparison and choice were between the D800 and D600:
The bottom-line There is nothing I hate more than reading a shootout review or article in a magazine comparing two or more cameras and at the end, the writer really doesn’t choose one or the other, they just kind of leave you with “Well, it depends on what you’re needs are, they’re both great cameras.” Well, duh. Every purchase we make depends on what our needs are. Well, I don’t want to leave you with that either, so I’m going to tell you what I told my friend. Get the D600. I hope that helps you somewhat if you’re in that same “on the fence” situation between these two great cameras, and I hope it helps you make your decision that much easier. Cheers. http://scottkelby.com/2012/the-nikon-d800-vs-the-d600-which-one-is-the-right-one-for-you/There is no reason to think that his choice would have been any different if the D610 were being compared instead of the D600.
Pete, I have no objective basis for challenging those numbers, but would you mind sharing where you got them?Lannie, the actual numbers are from Dxomark's lens tests. If you compare the same lens on different cameras you can see the difference.
Dxomark used to present their measurements in lp/mm recalculated for 24x36mm sensors but now use their Perceptual Megapixel (M-Pix) as it's easier to understand for most people.
When selecting the best lenses for the D600 dxomark also compares to the D800. The highest scores was from the 85mm primes:
"As for Sharpness, the 85mm f/1.4 Nikkor scored 22M-Pix on the D800 vs 20M-Pix on the D600 however the f/1.8 achieved exactly the same score of 19P-Mpix as did the Zeiss Makro-Planar with 17-P-Mpix."
A few years ago I've spent months doing lens tests using imatest and ISO charts as well as slanted squares etc. It's extremely time consuming because you need to set up everything so you exclude other variables like how well you focused the camera, lighting, alignment etc, etc. What I learned from those was that it is impossible to judge resolution by eye. The eye is so easily fooled by contrast for one thing and when it comes to images of different resolution all bets are off. What I also figured out at the back-end was that postprocessing has an huge impact on how sharp things look, many times more so than actual resolution.
I would expect the D800E to have slightly higher resolution using the same lenses as the D800. However if judged by eye you might easily be fooled by the higher contrast from lack of AA filter without actually having any real increase in resolution.
Because these high resolution cameras are already taxing the optical performance of our lenses, as you increase the megapixels and the theoretical maximum resolution you will gain less the higher you go. It's a diminishing return of real resolution compared to megapixels.
Thanks, Pete. That is very helpful.
I would expect the D800E to have slightly higher resolution using the same lenses as the D800. However if judged by eye you might easily be fooled by the higher contrast from lack of AA filter without actually having any real increase in resolution.I have had a hunch that that might be true--corroborated somewhat also by my first experience with Nikon lenses on the Kodak 14n, which also had no low-pass filter. Even so, the Kodak 14n at 14 mp rarely out-resolved my lenses.
Pete, I am also wondering whether, if those are the numbers seen with primes, whether there is particular advantage at all to the D800 when using zooms.
I always assumed those huge files must be useful for something.
The issue has been talked to death already, only as D800 vs. D600. Look up those discussions and ignore anything that's about spots on the sensor (which is a D600 bug that the D610 fixes). Aside from the bug fix there is almost no difference between the D600 and D610.
Something worth noting too is that I think Nikon used to refer to the D800 as a 'PRO' camera and the D600 (presumably also the 610) as a 'PROSUMER' .
That seems to suggest that the D800 is generally more solidly built, better weatherproofing, and will stand more vigorous usage etc
Pete, I am also wondering whether, if those are the numbers seen with primes, whether there is particular advantage at all to the D800 when using zooms.Well, you will never loose resolution by shooting with more megapixels so it's always advantageous to some degree.
Usually you get the highest resolution in the tele range. Looking for example at the new 70-200 f4 from Nikon dxomark says 21 P-Mpix for D800 and 18 P-Mpix for the D600. That's translates to roughly a 17% increase in megapixels and 8 percent in resolution for the D800. If we convert megapixels of resolution to lp/mm we get 78 lp/mm for the D800 and 72 lp/mm for the D600.
So even with a zoom there is a small difference that favors the D800. It just not the difference that most people image when going from 24 to 36 megapixels.
Just as a comparison if we take the same lens on a D7100 (24 megapixel DX) we get 13 p-Mpix real resolution. That translates into 61 lp/mm. That means that the D600 has roughly 18% more resolution and the D800 28% more resolution compared to the D7100. So the difference between DX and FX is more significant than the D800/D600.
Still it's easy to throw numbers around and forget that all of these cameras are good and can produce very high quality images.
Thank you for all the valuable information! I will probably go with the d610. All of your input has helped me greatly. If I do win the mega million though, you better buy stock in Nikon!
I have never seen a D610, but since it is almost identical to the D600, which I reviewed for photo.net, I would say the biggest difference from the D800 are the AF system and the controls. The D610's Multi-CAM 4800 is a fine AF system, but the D800 with 15 cross-type AF points is somewhat better.
The D610 has the D80/D90/D7000/D7100 type controls and lacks the 10-pin connector. While I have few problems with the D7000 and D7100, the D300/D700/D800 type controls are easier for me, and the 10-pin connector can be useful.
To me, pixel count is a secondary issue, and in these days SD cards are so common and fast that having two SD slots is just fine for me. In fact, I tend to depend on the SD card more now on my D800E. Since just about every laptop (and desktop) has an SD slot, it is a lot more convenient. To me, both viewfinders are fine and the build quality for the D600, D610, D7000, and D7100 is excellent.
If you can live with the D610's AF system and controls, you might as well save some money.
Hi. Am looking at the same two cameras. Poking around on 500px it seems to me that few images posted with D610 are as sharp as nearly all of the images posted with D800. Is that because of the camera differences, or do you-all believe that better photographers tend to buy more expensive gear? sorry if this is to noob a question
There's no real sharpness difference. Take the same photos with both cameras and you'll get nearly the same results. I don't know why the sharpness you're seeing in other peoples shots is different but it's not the cameras.
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