D800 or D810

<p>Hi,<br>

I'm using F100, D200 and D300s cameras. I have found an offer for a demo version of D800 (18.000 clics and 1 year full waranty) for the half price of a new D810. Yes, I have read a lot about these two cameras and different comparisons. I would be glad to read about your oppinions regarding the ease of use of these cameras with old MF (manual focus) lenses. From my film times I have quite some MF and older AF lenses (and also some accessories) I used and still use with my F100. Would it be a mistake buying a camera (D800) if a new updated model (D810) is for sale now ? Should I wait and save some more money for the new model? What do the differences between these two cameras mean in practical work? I just looked at the D750, but is about 50% more than the D800 offer and besides, the buttons and the layout differs quite a lot from my current cameras and I also like the built of the D800 similary to my F100. I know I don't actually need the whole 36Mpix but I can crop the photo if necessary.<br>

Any help would be much appreciated.<br>

Thanks, Miha.</p><div></div>

<p>My assumption is that D810 represents improvements over the D800, but as a user of a D800 finessing images with Capture NX2, I would hesitate on the D810 because it would mean getting a new or modified work flow if you resort to a work around for D810 image files with Capture NX2.</p>

<p>The D810 fixes some minor niggles over the D800; there are already numerous threads comparing these two so a quick search on this site for the D810 will provide enough comparison material. In short, if the image shown is typical for what you do, I'd get the D800. The biggest advantages (in my view) for the D810 are more for action/event photography, and even then, just incremental updates.</p>

<p>If you are using CaptureNX2 still, I would consider moving to another program anyway. I really liked CaptureNX2 a lot, but it is clear it is a dead-end street. I moved to CaptureOne, and found that for quite some images it can pull back details better than CNX2 ever could - the advantages of software that continues to develop. So for sure I wouldn't let my choice of camera depend on that.</p>

<p>The D810 optical viewfinder has a bit more clarity than the D800's so that should be helpful with manual focus lenses. Also the live view image of the D810 has higher resolution and fewer artifacts than the D800 when zoomed in, so it's easier to get perfect focus (for static subjects, live view with the camera preferably on tripod is nowadays by far the most accurate way of focusing). The D810 is quieter. If you use telephoto lenses on tripod for static subjects, the D810 is designed to cause less vibration (in particular if you use M-UP with EFCS). The autofocus is more consistent in the D810 (less fine tuning between lenses and between different colour temperatures of light). I find the D810 grip a better fit for my hands. It does cost more money so you have to consider that as well.</p>

<p>The D750 is a great camera as well. Trying the different models in the store is something I would highly recommend to see that the ergonomics of the camera are a good match for you.</p>

<p>I don't think the warranty that comes with a used camera means a lot. But if you're confident that the camera would have no problem then I would rather get the D800. I actually would buy the D800 over the D810 if both of them were brand new and for the same price.</p>

BeBu Lamar, WHY prefer the D800? (I have a

D800 myself, by the way)

<p>Albin, Sorry I can not say.</p>

<p>If you don't feel you need the 'improvements' that the D810 has over the D800, get the D800,save the money, or use the savings on an additional lens or accessory you may need. Both are excellent.</p>

<p>The D810 is made in Nikon Thailand's factory, and unfortunately there is still some prejudice against Nikon products made outside of Japan. Recently, Sigma openly uses "made in Japan" as a selling point for their lenses, as Nikon, etc. are now manufacturing a lot of their lenses in China and Thailand.</p>

<p>The D810 merely represents a number of minor improvements over the D800. In other words, the entire D800/D810 design is over three years old. In particular, the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module was designed way back in 2007. In another year or so, the D810 will likely be superseded by a newer design with lots of improvements. If you save money for a D810, your investment is going to take a major hit in the near future.</p>

<p>If you have lots of money and don't care, get a D810. Otherwise, a used D800 that has already depreciated significantly is going to be much better value for the money at this point. In another year or two, both the D800 and D810 will be lumped together as "old models" with similar values.</p>

<p>I looked for a camera to use to make big portrait enlargements with, and for 8-10 weddings per year. I also do a lot of outdoor photography. The D810 has better video, but that wasn't at all important to me. The D810 also has a somewhat quieter shutter, and that might be slightly more useful if I did weddings full time. However, I found a D800E for $1,500. That allowed me to spend another $1,500 on the very BEST lenses available, including a Nikon 24mm PC-E. For me it was a no-brainer. No one, and I mean no one, will ever be able to see the difference between images made with a D800E and a D810. I hate putting money into cameras--they drop value so fast! It's like throwing money away. Lenses do keep value much better, and have much a bigger impact on your photography. If you wait a year or year & half, the D810 will likely drop in price by half. If you do video it might be worth picking one up then.<br>

That said, the camera I've been using the most for the past month is my newest--a near mint Nikon F3/T!</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>I'm one of the few who do "what you shouldn't do" and upgraded from a D800e to a D810. And I don't regret it (although ask me again when the next upgrade appears and I can't afford it).</p>

<p>The D810 is better than the D800 in a number of ways - but in all cases, it's minor. If you do a lot of live view shooting (such as manual focus when you don't trust the finder), it's probably worth it - the line skipping has gone, the camera doesn't lock up until it's written the images, there's the split live view features. It's a little faster - but not much; it doesn't sound as though speed is your priority. The D810 really is appreciably quieter - shockingly so if you're used to the D800's racket. The D810 has slightly more dynamic range at the (new) base ISO; the D800 probably has a bit better in the moderate ISO range. AF is a bit better on the D810. Depending on what your older lenses are, you may find you're not getting the best out of the sensor on either of these (but many will be just fine). Normally, for someone looking at older lenses, I'd bring up the Df - but the F100 generation is a much better fit for a D8x0. My film body is an F5, and I have very little difficulty going between that and the D810.</p>

<p>Both the D800 and D810 swap with + and - buttons compared with the D300 generation. This annoyed me enough that it put me off using my D700 alongside my D800e - hence trading them both in for the upgrade. The D800 moves the AF area mode control to the front left of the camera; the D810 moves the metering mode selector. I preferred both in their D300/D700 positions, so check this won't drive you nuts. Otherwise, these bodies are the clear successors to the D700 - the D6x0 and D750 are very different.</p>

<p>In your shoes, I'd probably take the D800. So long as you wouldn't always regret not buying the "best" at this point, it's still a lovely camera. Besides, for architecture, you might want the low-pass filter. The D810's improvements make it a better competitor to the 5D3 - it makes it stronger where the 5D3 had advantages over the D800. It doesn't make it a "better D800" much.</p>

<p>Of course, you've said you're not expecting to use the resolution, which suggests you might be planning to use the dynamic range for raw shooting. If not, if you're wondering about money, I'd look at a used D700. It'd be even closer to your D300 in handling, and still give you the full-frame experience. Good luck.</p>

Get the D810.

Shun, what would those many necessary improvements to a 3 years old design need to be?<br>And what about depreciation? Do do we really buy cameras as an investment or to take pictures? Will their picture taking capabilities take a major hit should a D810-successor appear? Could it be that we then not care, not because we have lots of money, but because whatever new camera appears does not turn our present cameras into useless bits of plastic and metal?<br>I think that if we follow that line of thinking, we would never get to take any pictures. Buy a camera now and in 3 years time it will have depreciated in value in a major way, and/because the then new cameras will sport lots of improvements, such that we are left wondering how anyone ever managed to take pictures with these bad investments that were obsolete the day they were introduced. So better wait for the new model. And when that arrives, skip it and wait for the new model. Ad infinitum. ;-)

<blockquote>

<p>another year or so, the D810 will likely be superseded by a newer design with lots of improvements. If you save money for a D810, <strong>your investment is going to take a major hit in the near future</strong>.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>MM statements like these i think sound rather Rumours provoking .. :-)</p>

<p>I meant to ask... Bebu, I'm now intrigued. Shun: was the "made in Thailand" thing a guess about Bebu's logic, or just a statement about why people in general might prefer the D800?<br />

<br />

Historically, Nikon's premium items have been made in Japan, because (I believe) the production runs have been relatively small and it has been seen as simpler to keep production near the headquarters design teams. Mass-produced items are made in larger factories in other countries where labour is cheaper. This has tended to mean that the items made outside Japan are those designed to a budget; this does not necessarily imply that the actual production is of any lower quality. Nikon have actually had more quality problems recently with high-end DSLRs than with the mass-produced budget items. One could also argue that some countries are more prone to abuse of the work force - unsurprisingly, typically those countries where labour is cheaper. And one might wish to avoid putting money into the country of a regime that one disapproves of politically.<br />

<br />

When Sigma say "made in Japan", I've always read it simply as "we make everything in-house, we don't run overseas factories". For the Japanese, I'm sure it's a bonus that they contribute to the local economy. For everyone else, I'd take it in the same way as I'd think of a Swiss watch - there is some advantage to heritage and the likelihood that experienced employees are at least overseeing the production, but not every watch made in Switzerland is of high quality, and not every watch made elsewhere is poor. (See the Grand Seiko range, to keep the Japanese theme going.) Sigma may feel that they're trying to build a brand reputation, and they do have a lot of decent lenses recently - but they're also starting from a position of an appalling reputation for quality control (a few years ago), so it's a bit dangerous to play the history card. These things do work, though - I know Samsung (my employers) used to shift a lot of budget items that tended to break some decades ago, and there was an active attempt to increase quality and therefore reputation. (I believe this is public record.) I won't start claiming Samsung products have the highest brand support in the world, but I'd like to think that they're now no longer synonymous with "cheap rubbish", and the same is probably now true for Sigma.<br />

<br />

But if Sigma were claiming that "made in Japan" is inherently better, that's a snafu. But they'd hardly be alone. Really Right Stuff make a point of their products being made in America (well, specifically California); I don't hold it against them, but I also buy their products because they're good rather than because of where they're made. Gitzo are reasonably vocal about being Italian (although they were French not that long ago). Arca-Swiss... well, that one's in the name.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Shun: was the "made in Thailand" thing a guess about Bebu's logic, or just a statement about why people in general might prefer the D800?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Other than the now lower price in the used market, the only reason I can think of why anybody would prefer the D800 over the slightly superior D810 is made in Japan vs. made in Thailand. The preference of country of manufacturing is neither illegal nor even unethical. To be blunt, it is mostly the result of ignorance. I still recall back in the 1960's, people use to associate "made in Japan" to low-quality products. That prejudice has now shifted to products made in other part of east/south-east Asia outside of Japan. As I said, Sigma openly uses that in their advertising. Advertising and marketing is, of course, mostly a bunch of nonsense.</p>

<p>Whether that is indeed Bebu's logic, only he can speak for himself.</p>

<p>Thanks, Shun. Well, The D800 (as opposed to the D800e) will have slightly more resistance to moiré. I'm also not a fan of Nikon having moved the metering mode selection away from the right hand - but that's just as true of the AF mode moving with the D800. The D800 series are - at least according to DxO - a little better at dynamic range in the ISO 200-1600 range (1600 is where the D4s starts handing out a spanking to both of them - the D750 has a somewhat more consistent half-stop advantage above ISO 100). Supposedly the filters seem to have changed, which might affect your workflow a little. Currently, Adobe seem to have broken their D810 support, although you can work around it. The D810 seems to have shown a few card compatibility issues that the D800 didn't have. And of course the grip is different, which is subjective. Oh, and I have what is technically an L-plate from a D800 which I'm using on my D810, because I don't tether enough to justify getting a D810 L-plate - but if I do, that'll be more money. So, the D800 could be argued to have a few merits if these matter to you more than the speed, volume and consistency advantages of the D810. I'd still take a D810 for my own needs, but I get people who wouldn't.</p>

Just to show how much nonsense this 'where it is made' thing is: <i>"Arca-Swiss... well, that one's in the name."</i> Arca-Swiss is French...<br>I bet you are now not going to like it as much as you did. ;-) Of course not.<br>Shun, why do you keep bringing up where stuff is made?<br><br>Myself, if i would be looking for a new camera, i would certainly take the D810 into consideration. But i don't really see why i should as long as the D800e keeps doing what it supposed to do. In other words: i would think that though certainly considering getting the D810, and given the market, a cheaper D800e would be the thing i'd go for.

<blockquote>

<p>Shun, why do you keep bringing up where stuff is made?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Because others keep on bringing that up, and as far as I am concerned, it is either due to:</p>

<ol>

<li>ignorance and prejudice: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00cpq7</li>

<li>misleading marketing, as in the case of the recent Sigma 24-35mm/f2 press release.</li>

</ol>

<p>Again, the following is a direct quote from Sigma's recent English press release for the up-coming 24-35mm/f2 lens. Somehow I don't buy the argument that it is intended for domestic Japanese consumption:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>All SIGMA's manufacturing – right down to molds and parts – with a few exceptions, are carried out under a single integrated production system, entirely in Japan. We are now one of the very few manufacturers whose products are solely "made in Japan". We like to think our products are somehow imbued with the essence of our homeland, blessed as it is with clean air and water, and focused, hard-working people. We pride ourselves on the authentic quality of SIGMA products, born of a marriage between highly attuned expertise and intelligent, advanced technology.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8757902625/sigma-announces-24-35mm-f2-dg-hsm-art-for-full-frame-camera</p>

<p>If you read that thread I linked to, on the Df, Nikon has a very noticeable "MADE IN JAPAN" on the top side. That is highly unusual for Nikon. I think Nikon is also trying to use "made in Japan" as a selling point for the Df.</p>

<i>"Because others keep on bringing that up, and [...]"</i><br>Hmm... "others"... A preemptive strike, it was? ;-)

<p>Hi,<br /> I don't really understand why this 'where it is made' arguments started (again). This was not my point as the OP.<br /> I just wanted to know if it makes any sense to buy an old model for half the price of a new one and what the differences between the two mean in a practical workline.<br /> I sure have to make my own decisions and I really don't care where one particular object is made. I have had and used Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Japanese, Thailand, Swiss, East and West German made cameras and lenses. I just judge them as good, mediocre and bad no matter where they were made.<br /> Regards, Miha.</p>

<p>Thanks, Miha. Sorry, side discussions sometimes happen - country of manufacture <i>is</i> a factor for some, but thank you for clarifying that it isn't for you. Do you feel we answered your question? Again, I believe the D810 is the better camera, the D800 has some minor advantages, and I don't think the D810's improvements would benefit you much based on the information and image you posted.</p>

<p>Hi, Andrew,<br>

After reading the answers I decided not to buy the D800 camera. So I have to wait and save some more money, since photography is just a hobby of mine. I am (for now) still satisfied with my cameras. I just found the offer and asked myself and you if this were an opportunity not to miss. I can wait (eventually till one of my cameras breakes down) or till there is enough money for a proper new one.<br>

Regards, Miha.</p>

<p>There is only one direction for the price of used D800 (as well as D810 and just about any other DSLR) to go. If you can wait, the longer you wait, the cheaper an old model is going to be. The D800 has already depreciated a lot so that further depreciation is going to be slower. In my opinion, the D810 should cost no more than 20% over the D800, if you compare used vs. used. The differences between the two are not that big. So I would expect steeper depreciation from the D810 in the coming months.</p>

<i>"There is only one direction for the price of used D800 (as well as D810 and just about any other DSLR) to go. If you can wait, the longer you wait, the cheaper an old model is going to be."</i><br><br>Oh bother...! I was hoping that the longer i use my cameras, the more expensive they would become, so i could eventually trade up to cameras i can't afford right now... ;-)