D7200 or D7500?

I currently use the D7100 and I'd like to pick up a second DX body. Of the two which one would you choose? I thought about the D7500 for it's newer technology and swiveling rear screen BUT the price of D7200's at less than $800 new or $700 refurbished is making the decision very difficult.

BUT the price of D7200's at less than $800 new or $700 refurbished is making the decision very difficult.

 

Doesn't it?

 

The D7200 is slightly higher resolution, has an aperture following ring for pre-AF lenses, and has two card slots. It also supports vertical grips, I believe. The D7500 has a flip-out touchscreen, is a bit quicker (8fps vs 6fps), shoots 4K video, has more metering segments, and (I believe) has auto-tuning for AF, which reduces pain a bit. The D7200 is very slightly better in dynamic range at minimum ISO, and the D7500 is slightly better above ISO 400, but there's not much in it.

 

If you're considering manual lenses or shooting professionally and want back-up, I'd lean towards the D7200. The touchscreen (based on my having hired a D500 once) is useful for image review, and may help a bit in live view shooting; it doesn't make a vast difference for normal shooting, although the flip-out ability is useful for some perspectives at events or in macro.

 

Why are you after a D7100 update? The biggest complaint most people have is the buffer size on the D7100; if you hit that a lot because you're shooting action, the D7500 is faster. If you're more inclined to slightly slower activities (landscape, weddings - although I've filled the buffer during wedding dances) then the D7200 may hold its own at least as well, although it's not a huge leap over the D7100. If you're intending to use both bodies side by side, I suspect there are a few more changes to the interface in the D7500 compared with the D7100, relative to the D7200, although they won't be huge.

 

The lack of secondary card slot and aperture ring make a D7500 a bad option for my shooting, although my alternative would be a significantly more pricey D500. So think carefully before taking it over the D7200 - but if you only have AF lenses and need speed, I wouldn't feel guilty about getting the D7500 either.

 

Does that help at all? I'm prepared to believe it doesn't. :-)

Do you use manual focus lenses without CPU? The D7200 supports metering with them, the D7500 does not.

 

The D7500 has the group-area AF feature which I like a lot. It is also faster and has a larger buffer. However the D7200 already has a larger buffer than the D7100 and it may be sufficient, depending on your needs.

 

I would pick the D7200 personally, of these two.

From the original post it sounds as if the D7100 is largely satisfactory. The D7200 is basically a slightly upgraded D7100, with a little better buffer, a little better high ISO, and a little better AF speed, and wi-fi. A few things like more shots in a time lapse sequence, and more in a bracket group, but it does not appear that anything was lost, and it operates the same. That's the one I'd get if I were replacing or supplementing a D7100 that does what you need. If my D7100 broke it's likely the one I'd get.

It also supports vertical grips, I believe.

The D7200 does, the D7500 does not. Which is the first negative in my book but may not matter to others (and to me it matters only if I were to use the camera with larger and heavier lenses like the 80-400 or 200-500). The missing 2nd card slot is another negative for me - and again, others may not care. The omission of the Ai-follower tab doesn't bother me at all; the lenses I have left wouldn't be used on that camera anyway. The flip screen is nice but whether or not it there wouldn't influence my purchasing decision. The slight reduction in resolution and slight difference in sensor performance - another wash.

 

If I was in the OP's shoes, I'd look carefully at both and determine if there is anything one has that the other doesn't that is truly important to me. And, as he already indicated, there is quite a price differential to take into account too. Quite frankly, if I was considering a new D7500, I would very much look for a used D500 instead - but that opens a whole new can of beans as features the D500 offers may not be relevant to the OP at all.

 

A few months ago, a friend came to me for advice - and it ended up being the same decision as in this thread: D7200 or D7500. In his particular case, I determined that not having a 2nd card slot was a deal breaker (all other differences between the two cameras were irrelevant for him) as he was going on a trip with no other means to backup his images. The one drawback this decision entailed, since he purchased some AF-P lenses with the body, was that Nikon so far has not updated the D7200 firmware and hence there is no way to turn of VR on those lenses.

 

Even if the D7200 and D7500 were the same price, I would pick the D7200; since the D7200 is substantially cheaper, the decision is even easier. I have to admit that in making that decision a little bit of annoyance and disappointment in Nikon's decision on how to spec the D7500 the way they did resonates; apparently the bean counters won on this one.

I have to admit that in making that decision a little bit of annoyance and disappointment in Nikon's decision on how to spec the D7500 the way they did resonates; apparently the bean counters won on this one.

 

Yes. The D7500 is a cut down D500. The D7200 (and D7100) is more like a cut down D750 - where you're not losing much except for the sensor size. (The D600 was, in my book, an up-sized D7000.) With the same sensor, the D7500 has to be differentiated in other ways, and - while stuff has been gained - it certainly loses out a bit in others compared with its predecessors. If they'd just called it the D6500... (but then Sony might have had a word about their numbering schemes). The absence of a D300 successor at the time meant that I, at least, was surprised how capable the "consumer" D7100 and D7200 were - it held up pretty well against the 7D2. The D500 is a step up (as a mini-D5), but market segmentation cuts both ways.

If they'd just called it the D6500...

Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing - actually, I would have called it the D6000; no need to start in the middle and give up numbers for future iterations on the scheme ;)

 

Yesterday, at Costco, I saw that the D7500 combo they offer was discounted $100 from $1599. I have tried to play with the demo D7500 a few times - but always the battery had been empty. Not this time though - but the camera appears to be broken as it only intermittently responded to me turning the sub-command dial in M-mode to change shutter speeds. And then I got "Err" when I tried CH mode - two times in a row after three actuations. Might be due to there not being a card in the camera (not sure if there was or wasn't) but certainly not something that inspires confidence in the product.

FWIW: Thom Hogan has an opinion on this subject too: More Nikon Rebates | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

I think the $100 off is a Nikon promotion for the time of year (it's been advertised in several places). Edit: Ah, you've seen.

 

I wouldn't hold the functioning of a demo camera in a general store against it. The number of times I've wandered through the camera stand of an electronics store and seen the mounts left open, gathering dust, occasionally with someone trying to poke them. I'd take a discounted ex-demo camera from a proper camera store, but not from a place where they're treated like that. For inexplicable reasons they leave body caps off lenses, too. (Whoever it is out there who decided that stealing caps off cameras and bodies was worthwhile, you did all of us a disservice.) I'd not be surprised if the problem you saw was related to chewing gum...

The number of times I've wandered through the camera stand of an electronics store and seen the mounts left open, gathering dust, occasionally with someone trying to poke them.

Costco is a bit different in that regard, the camera is pretty much encased in a theft protection device - no way to take off the lens, for example. Or open the battery or SD card compartments.

 

I wouldn't hold the functioning of a demo camera in a general store against it.

I usually wouldn't either. But "Err" is potentially serious and is not something I expect someone playing around with the camera could easily trigger.

I would have no reservations about buying a display model of anything from my local camera store. All the bodies are kept on a shelf behind the counter, and I have to say that if they don't know you they do a pretty good job of vetting before handing one over. I could walk in and ask to look at a 70-200 2.8 on a D5 and they wouldn't blink(they'd probably even encourage me to walk outside with it if I wanted), but someone unknown off the street would be a different story. Lenses are the same way-I bought my 35mm 1.8 as a demo, and it was new for all intents and purposes.

 

I agree that the big box stores are another story.

I'd agree assuming it's a proper store. Assuming the equipment has been handled well, a demo has no real wear and tear on it, but you're pretty well guaranteed that it's not defective out of the box. If it can't hold up to that kind of use, it's a pretty poor gadget to begin with

Indeed, re. camera stores. Most I've been to seem pretty trusting, although wandering in with a D810 around your neck does encourage them to assume you might spend money. I've rarely gone into a store without a camera - although Aperture seemed a bit nonplussed when I dropped by last week without one. Possibly because I said I didn't want to buy anything and just wanted to let them know I was glad they were still there, which doesn't exactly pay the rent. The "carry a D810” trick (including the "buy a camera bag and give them money" approach) still got me glared at in the US when I asked to look at a Df, but maybe I obviously looked dubious about the camera, or was just clearly from out of town.

 

Sorry for maligning Costco - I'm too used to being horrified by electrical stores in the UK who rely on an alarm cable and don't have the staff to keep an eye out. Airports are the worst offenders. And I suppose I wouldn't expect demo items to break, I'm just expecting them to need a serious internal clean before I'd go near them.

I would have no reservations about buying a display model of anything from my local camera store.

I would - despite the fact they my store keeps them also on a shelf behind the counter.

Assuming the equipment has been handled well, a demo has no real wear and tear on it, but you're pretty well guaranteed that it's not defective out of the box.

Those are quite some big assumptions you're making there.

Sorry for maligning Costco

No need to be sorry. There's "staff" there but they couldn't explain anything about any camera to you - similar to Best Buy (at least the one in my area has stocked up mightily on higher-end camera equipment (like Sony A7RII); much to my surprise). You are expected to just grab the (empty) box, pay, and get the box contents handed to you afterward. Not surprisingly, the local camera store isn't too happy about those sales at Costco and Best Buy.

I always want to buy local but if a store doesn't want to show me the camera I want to see it would be hard for me to buy from them. Trust is mutual. If they don't trust me I can't trust them. And no i never bring a camera with me when i go to the store.

When I still lived in Illinois there is a store that I visit often. I bought a Nikon Coolpix 5000 demo and a Nikkor 20mm f/2.8 AF-D also demo. I bought the same units that I came to see several years before and they both came with full warranty.

I would have thought the D7200 would be the obvious choice as a 2nd body to a D7100. They have exactly the same controls, layout and menu. Whereas the D7500 would require re-learning its differences and foibles.

 

The only feature of the D7500 I'd personally find useful is the tilting screen. Otherwise I see the D7500 as a bit of an overpriced downgrade from the D7200.

 

WRT the vertical grip; I find it a bit counter-productive on the D7200. It practically doubles the bulk of the camera, which kind of defeats the object of using the DX format. The ergonomics aren't improved at all IMO. Not unless the camera is permanently used in portrait orientation.

WRT the vertical grip; I find it a bit counter-productive on the D7200. It practically doubles the bulk of the camera, which kind of defeats the object of using the DX format. The ergonomics aren't improved at all IMO. Not unless the camera is permanently used in portrait orientation.

Unless the camera is used with larger, heavier lenses, I do agree. In my case, using the AF-S 80-400 on a D7100 (and later D7200) adding the external grip was essential and improved the ergonomics of the rig - essentially from "barely" usable to "doable". Portrait orientation had nothing to do with it, height (or lack thereof) of the camera did. Currently, I only have one Nikon body with an external battery grip permanently attached - a D500 that is exclusively used with the 200-500. I also find that the Sony A7II handles better with the external battery grip when the 70-200/4 (not exactly what I would consider a large and heavy lens) is attached; I would rather use the camera without when I attach the 12-24 or 28/2 but unfortunately, detaching and attaching the Sony grip is a bit of a chore because of the need to attach and detach the battery cover of the camera.

I recently acquired a quantity of old Novoflex kit, among which was a pistol-grip lens with rifle-butt extension.

This gives superb handling to any camera body + long lens..... except for the fact that it leaves no hand free to actually fire the camera!

 

That, and the fact it could be mistaken for a weapon; with embarrassing or deadly consequences!

 

Anyhow, it seems to me that adding something to the camera body isn't a good solution to improving the handling or balance of a long lens. Adding a grip and additional shutter release to the lens might make much more sense.

This gives superb handling to any camera body + long lens..... except for the fact that it leaves no hand free to actually fire the camera!

I owned first and second generation Novoflex rapid-focus lenses - at least for the 2nd generation, firing the camera was not an issue as the pistol-grip had a trigger that could be connected via cable release to the shutter release on the camera. Focusing was via the (spring-loaded) grip. All that is handy dandy unless you are dealing with a zoom - no way to reach the zoom ring when holding the lens via a pistol-grip contraption.

 

Forgot to mention that using the MB-D17 on the D500/200-500 rig is mostly to improve balance though the camera body extension is still welcome.

 

Bushhawk makes (made?) some shoulder-stock contraptions that some may find useful in handling longer lenses (with the same issue as mentioned above regarding zooms). I was tempted once a long time ago but never followed through.

I find vertical grips to be essential for when using a 135 or longer lens hand held. I shoot a lot of vertical orientation images and find it much easier to hand hold the camera with both arms supported on my chest (rather than only the left elbow) which makes for a steadier and more comfortable experience. I think it's pretty shocking that in the new DX lineup only the D500 supports a vertical grip. But, I guess Nikon have studied the market and are offering what they expect to be able to sell.

Although I would never buy a grip unless it makes the camera faster, I am surprised that Nikon doesn't offer a grip for the D7500.

"I am surprised that Nikon doesn't offer a grip for the D7500."

 

- As I understand it, there are no contacts on the camera to make a grip have any useful function except perhaps replace the internal battery via an awkward insert arm, or to fire the shutter via a cable or IR.

 

This leaves the field wide open for 3rd party manufacturers to fill the gap.

 

I'm left wondering if Nikon's ridiculous overpricing of its accessories has finally bitten home in reduced, or non-existent sales/demand for such add-ons as battery grips, filters, remote triggers, extension tubes, etc.

 

WRT the Novoflex focus-grip; I can see nowhere to attach a mechanical Bowden cable-release - let alone an electrical trigger. I can't imagine developing the dexterity to accurately follow focus and simultaneously operate a release trigger either! However, an updated version of pistol-grip, sans follow-focus, might well make for better handling.

Since 2007 when Nikon started producing FX bodies, they only put certain high-end features on their top-of-the-line DX body, such as dual memory cards, aperture follower tab to meter with AI/AI-S lenses, power pack/vertical grip ....

 

For example, the D300S has all of those "high-end" features. When Nikon introduced the D7000 with all of those features and then followed by the D7100, which they called their "flag ship" DX body, I thought it was very clear that Nikon didn't want to continue the D300 line with a D400. Somehow Nikon changed their mind later on and introduced a D500 in 2016, with all of those features. All of a sudden the D7500 is now a second-tier DX body, while the D7200 was Nikon's flag-ship DX body when it was introduced in 2015.

 

The end result is that the D7500 is an odd, in between product. The D500 is the high-end DX body nowadays.

Edited December 13, 2017 by ShunCheung

I can see nowhere to attach a mechanical Bowden cable-release

Probably the older version (I sold my Novoflex books and hence can't look up how many different ones there were). This was the older style that didn not have a provision to attach a release cable: http://www.leicashop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/9/19259_65_a.jpg

 

This is the newer one that does, the trigger is at the top of the front grip: https://www.novoflex.com/files/novo-schnell.jpg

 

I can't imagine developing the dexterity to accurately follow focus and simultaneously operate a release trigger either!

Actually quite easy with the newer one. And a whole lot faster than having to turn a focus ring. Squeeze the focus grip with one hand, release the shutter with the other. Not shown in the picture is the additional shoulder stock that provided an even more stable way to hold the rig. Unfortunately, the whole affair really looked liked aiming a bazooka.

Unfortunately, the whole affair really looked liked aiming a bazooka.

 

Right, this is a problem in today's world since you don't want to appear like you're about to use a weapon.

 

I'm left wondering if Nikon's ridiculous overpricing of its accessories has finally bitten home in reduced, or non-existent sales/demand for such add-ons as battery grips, filters, remote triggers, extension tubes, etc.

I think Nikon's accessories are generally well made and while they're expensive it's nice to be reassured that they will work and one doesn't have to search for one that is well made. I've tried once to find remote cords that are less expensive than Nikon's MC-30A, and while I eventually found such a thing, the first ones I got had cables that couldn't last even one packing and taking out without the connection becoming erratic (poor material choices for the inner cables). The original MC-30A actually has really nice materials and can in my experience take a lot of twisting and turning and packing and unpacking from the bag. It's also more flexible than the old MC-30 (which also works but can become really stiff in -20 to -30C). I think time wasted on searching for knock-offs that work reliably and testing them and experiencing failures is easily more valuable to me than the cost of the original accessory.

 

In the case of the D7100/D7200's grip (MB-D15), it was not as firm when mounted on the D7100 body than the MB-D12 has been on the D800 and D810. Basically there was a bit of flex between the D7100 and MB-D15 perhaps because of the use of plastic where metal is used on the MB-D12. I think the requirement to stay light weight makes it more difficult to make a solid grip body interface for the smaller bodies and probably the effort was not seen as worthwhile. On the D500 and D850 I would assume the grip joint is firm like it is on the D810 + MB-D12 when tightened. To me at least this is reassuring. I was not completely happy with the MB-D15 on the D7100 when using e.g. the VR 200/2 II; the flex bothered me. So from that perspective I can see why Nikon would leave out the grip option from the D7500 and point people towards the D500 if they need a vertical grip. However, from the buyer's perspective this probably does give pause.