D700 with 24-120 f/4 and cold weather shooting.

<p>I have some questions that I hope some experienced people can help me out with.</p>

<p>I am going on a trip where supposedly temperatures may drop down to -40C/F, however, I think that this is a slight exaggeration, and down to around -30C/-22F is more realistic at the time of the year that I am going. I have taken pictures in temperatures as low as -25C/-14F before without much trouble.</p>

<p>1. I will be bringing a D700 with the MB-D10 battery grip. I currently have EN-EL3e batteries, but if there is any benefit (as far as cold weather performance is concerned) in having an EN-EL4e in the MB-D10 instead of the EN-EL3e, I would get one. Would the EN-EL4e last longer than the EN-EL3e, or once temperatures are that cold it wouldn't make much of a difference? I don't care much about the increased speed of continuous shutter release, 5 fps is plenty for what I do.</p>

<p>2. I read that it is not a good idea to be changing lenses in such cold weather. This is an issue for me, since my current lens line-up consists of a 24mm f/2.8D, 50mm f/1.8D, 85mm f/1.8 and a Voigtlander 40mm f/2. All primes. I have been contemplating the 24-120 f/4 zoom for a long time, but always felt that the minor inconvenience of having to change lenses was not enough reason to spend so much money on that lens. However, if the well-being of my camera is at stake, I may just buy it after all. I can't afford the 24-70 now, and I think I may have some good use for the extra reach on the long end, and I would mostly be using this lens outdoors, under daylight, so the f/4 maximum aperture is not really an issue. But although most users seem to be satisfied with this lens, there are some complainers too. However, I suspect that nowadays people "test" lenses on the 36mp D800, which makes little differences much more visible than on the 12mp sensor of my D700. I am aware of the f/4 maximum aperture, I am also aware of the distortion, but how is the sharpness of this lens on the D700 specifically? I don't want to buy this lens for this one trip only, I want to make sure I can get some good use out of it if I spend the $1300 that it costs. Stopped down to f/5.6-8, I am hoping to get results similar or at least very close to the 50/1.8D and 85/1.8 (this latter one I feel may be a little unrealistic, I am super-satisfied with the 85). If I buy this lens, I hope it smokes the 24/2.8D and I can leave that and the 40/2 at home, since I am not nearly as satisfied with these lenses as the 50/1.8 and 85/1.8, even stopped down to f/5.6-8 (although I do admit my dissatisfaction with the 40/2 may be due to my inability to properly focus this lens manually, but quite consistently I get results that are visibly inferior to the 50/1.8D). Distortion aside, being a more modern design, will the 24-120 f/4 beat the 24/2.8 in the sharpness department?</p>

 

<p>I change lenses all the time in cold weather and never had a problem with that.</p>

<p>When you bring the camera to a warm humid indoor place, while still outdoors place it in the camera bag with some silica gel if you have it, and close it before taking it indoors. Do not open the camera bag indoors that same day; it will still be cold enough after a few hours that you get condensation inside and outside the camera if you do. That water can cause problems with the camera's functioning immediately or later on.</p>

<p>For a zoom, consider the 24-85 AF-S VR - it is a good lens especially for the money. </p>

<p>Thanks Ilkka. I was considering the new 24-85 too, but most reviews I read said it fell far behind the 24-120 sharpness-wise, and that sample variation was quite a big issue with this lens. Do you have a comment on that?</p>

<p>Buy several of the internal batteries so you have at least three. Keep them in your inner shirt pocket and rotate them out as needed. If you are outside all day long, the cold will eventually overcome the batteries in your grip thing. As for changing lenses, I've not heard that. I am a winter photographer living in the Dakotas, and frequent Minnesota too. I just leave my camera outside in my car all winter long but take the memory card and battery inside with me. The temperatures you mention are not a big deal for cameras. Try to avoid looking at the LCD screen a lot, and don't keep flipping the AF on your lens when not needed.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>Changing lenses in the cold is not big deal, just make sure that snow doesn't blow into the camera when you are doing it.</p>

<p>Have a couple of spare batteries with you in a pocket next to your body to keep them warm. They discharge very quickly in the cold.</p>

<p>When bringing the camera in from the cold, seal it in a plastic bag (like a Zip-Loc bag) to keep the warm moist are away from it. You can get very bad frost build up on the camera and it has to be completely warm before you open the sealed bad indoors.</p>

<p>I use both my D700 and D800 in -25C to -30C weather with no issues</p>

<p>So it looks like changing lenses is not a big deal. I have been shooting in -20C to -25 quite a lot too (I currently live in Northwestern China, and those kind of temperatures are not rare at all) and did not experience many problems, so I suppose I should be fine in -30C or -40C too. If it really drops to -40C I doubt I will be outside all day. Probably not longer than two or three hours in a row before I go indoors mainly to warm myself up.</p>

<p>About condensation, I found it quite surprising that I never had a problem with it in Northwestern China, where temperatures now are around -25C but the climate is very dry, whereas going indoors from roughly 0C in Central Europe poses a much higher risk.</p>

<p>I am still considering a zoom lens, and I just found and read this thread:<br>

http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00aXdz</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the sample comparisons I see there still show that a zoom of this kind falls far behind prime lenses, but everyone seems to agree that this 24-85 lens performs quite well in its class. It looks like I can't expect much better than this unless I go for the 24-70 f/2.8 (which is too bulky and expensive for me) or stick with primes.</p>

Holy smokes, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you guys go outside in weather that cold! I've always had a hard time trying to

shoot with gloves on too, which I assume you wear. I must be a wimp...I'm waiting for it to at least hit 40F here.

I don't know about sample variation in the 24-85 VR; I have only tested one of them. I think the 24-120/4 is priced quite high for the image quality it delivers; I loved the shooting experience with it but was not quite happy with the results. I am happy with the 24-70.

 

I suspect the photographer will stop working sooner than the camera at -40C and the time is measured in minutes and not

hours. ;-) However, I suppose the relative humidity is a big factor here as well; where I live the relative humidity is around

90% during much of the winter. There can also be wind, but very rarely does it get below -30C. I can shoot at -25C for a while but not

so much below -30C. I have been in such conditions, but only once with a camera and that was a film camera which did function correctly and survived the experience.

<p>I've got the 24-120 f/4 VR on a D700. Sharpness wise, I see nothing wrong with it. I find vignetting a bit much, but it's easily solved, distortion at 24mm is noticeable. It's quite an expensive lens indeed, and I also considered the 24-85VR - but the 72mm filters were a bit a deal-breaker for me, and I really like the extra bit of reach. I usually use primes (and prefer those still), the zoom is really for moments that convenience counts. It lives up to that expectation; I'm happy with it even if the price was a bit more than I wanted to spend.<br>

I cannot compare to the Voigtländer 40mm, but I have the Ai 24 f/2.8 which is identical to the AF 24 f/2.8. I can't really say whether the zoom is much sharper (I'm quite OK with the 24mm I have), but it does have more contrast and satured colours - it renders vivid, contrasty images.</p>

<p>No experience how it behaves at -30 degrees, but at +30, it works fine so far ;-)</p>

The EN-EL4a lasts longer in the cold than the EN-EL3e simply because it has larger capacity.

If I read you right you do not already have a EL4, and in your place I would buy some extra EL3's and keep them warm rather than start a new battery system with the EL4's. With the EL4 you need a charger and the BL3 cap for the battery grip. That will cost you a lot of money (EL4+BL3+MH-21 charger = 6x EL3 at B&H photo), and I'd rather bring one charger than two....

I do not think you will have any problems with the equipment to change lenses outside, just do not do it inhouse with cold gear. Then everything will fog up.

The issue you will have though, is in those temperatures you will probably want to change lenses with gloves on. It might be tricky and fiddely, definitly something to try at home before you go.

As for the 24-120 f4 I have one with my D700 and will absolutely recommend it. Have a look over at the photographylife website for a good review.

<p>I like to photo at night during winter, especially in all out blizzards. Temps can hit 40 below, and winds can easily hit a steady 50 mph or even higher. I wear a Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero suit, Outdoor Research Gorilla face mask (balacava,) Black Diamond guide gloves, Baffin Boots, plus appropriate insulating layers underneath if needed. (I can be naked under the MH suit and be perfectly warm down to about zero F.) The Dakotas can offer up some deadly cold conditions, but I shrug them off. The Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero layers are 900-fill down, and it's like a down sleeping bag with arms and legs. I was out the other night photo'ing trains when it hit zero, and I had to unzip the parka while I was setting up lights. I was beginning to sweat. I think I could stay out in 25 F below temps indefinitely if I needed to. The MH suit or pants & parka come in red or black. I have the black ones as they soak up heat from the sun during the day. Red is the standard color for polar expeditions and high altitude mountain climbers (usual buyers of this outfit.)</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>Trygve, I have read that review, and on the same website he also says that the 24-85 is clearly inferior to the 24-120, but the general view of most people here on photo.net and a couple of other reviewers is that they perform very similarly.</p>

<p>I have a thin pair of gloves that I keep on at all times, another layer comes on top of that when I am not shooting. Changing lenses with the thin gloves is not an issue. The cold there is not as bad as it sounds, as it is very dry and often sunny. -15C to -20C actually feels completely fine for taking a walk. The coldest I have ever experienced was -36C, that I must admit was quite unpleasant after just a few minutes.</p>

<p>This page here from National Geographic says for some reason that in cold weather it is important that we do not change lenses:<br>

http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photo-tips/cold-weather-photo-tips-coulson-brimberg/<br>

It doesn't really explain why cold in itself would be harmful.</p>

Oliver,

I think that article talks about the danger of getting snow and sleet into the camera body when changing lenses. It is

definitly a concern, but with some shielding it should be manageble.

Layered gloves is the way to go, but I still find a zoom more practical than primes though.

<p>I was out shooting at a graveyard tonight at -18 °C/-0.4°F. I brought a Nikon D300 and the 16-85mm. It didn't take very long before the battery died (the EN-EL3. I had brought a spare), and before I was finished shooting, the camera stopped working. I got the ERR message. I couldn't feel my feet anymore, and I was frozen to the bones, so it was time to call it a quit anyway. I am thawing slowly now, with the help of some hot red wine toddies :-) </p>

<p>I live in Michigan and have worked in Minnesota, Alaska and Wisconsin, too, on magazine assignments. I have a Canada Goose coat (like you see on polar expeditions), thin gloves that I wear under big thick mittens (from Fairbanks, AK) along with Arcteryx bib overalls and layer under that. If I'm photographing ice fishing or something where I'll be standing on ice for long periods I have a pair of Will Steger Mukluks that are absolutely warm as toast.<br>

I assume the reason for not removing the lens is that you are taking a part of the insulation off the camera - the lens. You are directly letting cold air into the camera which will chill off the camera and battery that much faster. Also changing lenses is one more thing to mess with when it's frigid cold. Think of it as one more thing to fumble around with. The 24-120 would be just the ticket for what you're doing since it would cover your needs. And it would be much faster to work with than changing lenses.<br>

I work with factory fresh batteries and as others describe are rotated in and out of warm pockets. All the other advice about ziplock bags and not going in and out are good advice. If possible it's helpful to tuck your camera under your coat.<br>

Working in -25F is dangerous business. Be sure to stay hydrated - drink water. And wear NO cotton. Cotton gets wet, you get cold. Cotton kills.<br>

Good luck with your project.</p>

<p>With regard to the 24 vs 24-120 @ 24mm, I don`t see a big difference in my photos between them on the D700. In my own experience, at f4, both lenses`resolution are quite close in the center, maybe a tiny bit contrastier&more saturated the zoom, while at f8 the 24-120 could be more contrasty and saturated than the 24mm prime, maybe also a bit more resolutive, but by a very small margin. At f2.8, the prime turns more soft than at f4, but not by much.</p>

<p>I have checked the charts at photozone, and their results differ from mine (also, notice that they use a D3X); their resolution levels are noticeably higher on the 24-120 @ f4, it`s not my case. At f8 their chart say both are almost equal, but I see an edge for my zoom. So I`d say don`t expect a huge improvement buying the zoom; it is a very useable and comfortable lens, but it`s certainly not a 24-70. Anyway, I`d take it over a bunch of primes, everywhere.</p>

<p>Like everyone said, just keep some extra batteries in your coat and you'll be fine. I would be careful changing lenses, you will be clumsy and potentially wearing gloves, but I've never heard of it being a problem. One thing to consider, in my experience metals, plastics, all kinds of things start to get fragile at around -40, so be extra careful handling your camera!</p>