dmcgphoto Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Hey all, I've had 3, yes three D700 camera bodies, all using the SB900 flash exclusively, I'm a full time photographer (weddings and portaits, cameras used 25+ hours a week every week)<br>All three exhibit, or have come to exhibit, exactly the same problem with the flash (I thought it ws the SB900, but all 5 of my Sb800's do the same thing with the D700's)<br>The flashes will flicker, and strobe, not part of their normal operation, when I pick up the camera, or do anything that causes minute movement in what I suspect is the hot shoe mount, the strobes flicker. The problem has gotten severe enough that I can not depend on using flash at any time with the bodies.<br>To test the theory, I have tried all the SB800's with the D700's and sure enough, turn on the D700, the flashes flicker when the camera moves or tries to focus, it's not a low light thing either, it does it in daylight when trying to use fill flash too.<br>I have 3 SB900's, 5 SB800's, 3 D700's and 2 D200 backups. I am forced to send the D700's in for repair yet can gain no valuable insight into what is causing these problems.</p><p>I don't pack the camera poorly, I do make certain that the flash is seated in the hot shoe all the way (so please don't think I'm just neglecting my equipment and blaming Nikon, because I'm not) I am coming to believe that the SB900 is so large that over a period of time the metal is being stretched just enough to cause an imperfect fit between flash and hot shoe seating. Is it a flash design problem (lower center of gravity needed?) or a camera flaw (inadequate planning for a heavier speedlight so the materials won't allow maximum reliability)</p><p>So I ask if any of you professional shooters (those who earn a living from picking up the camera and shooting) if you have experienced the problems, No disrespect intended to those of you who don't shoot for a living but love it, but your use of the camera is not as heavy duty or constant as mine, I know some will still take offense, but that's not's what is intended, I'm just looking for answers as to what is causing this, if I'm doing it..I'd love to know how, I treat the camera's very well, if others are experiencing it, perhaps Nikon should be made aware.<br>Nikon is like any business, it can't possibly tie all things together when sent to the tech department, and the repair department really doesn't seem to compile statistics about the nature of repairs needed.<br>Thanks.<br>Daniel</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Laur Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Just to be sure on one thing, Daniel: do you have the camera body's front function button set up to trigger the modeling light feature? If your way of gripping the body leaves your right-hand finger tips grazing that button, you could easily be firing off the modeling feature, which looks just like a flickering strobe (because it <em>is</em> a flickering strobe!). If that's the case, it a feature, not a bug. And you can turn it off.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcgphoto Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Nope, the modeling light is not what's going off, the strobe activates no matter what, when this first happened I was thinking that very thing, but to no avail...DANG!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_skomial Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>This is really disturbing report. </p> <p>Since the same flashes on your D200 work OK, we need to watch out for more experience with D700, but 3 cameras behaving like this is already plenty.</p> <p>Not asking you to do that, but we could try some more...</p> <p>Have you tried, just for test, a non-Nikon hot shoe flash ? Would SB-600 (no optical slave built) also behave like that of your D700 ?</p> <p>Would possibly use of a camera bracket (e.g. Stroboframe), and a SC-29 work OK on your D700 ?</p> <p>Would the flash flicker if in flash Manual mode ? or only in the iTTL mode ?</p> <p>Try disabling auto focus assist light, just for test...<br> Trying a SU-800 commander ? and the CLS from that hot shoe?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>This may not be the ideal answer, but Nikon did not put the 'consumer pop-up flash' on the D3 and the D3x bodies for a reason. And you may have discovered the reason.</p> <p>If, after Nikon services your D700 bodies, you do not include a flash bracket to hold the SB-900 above the "pop-up flash," then there is not much you can do when the next "unexpected" series of flashes occur.</p> <p>Nikon does not consider the D700 a pro camera body....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>I only have one D700 body, one SB-900 flash and two SB-800. I have used those flashes on the D700 and D300, and I don't think there is any weakness in those hot shoes. The D300 and D700 are pretty much as solid as my D2X, as well as the D3 and D3X bodies I have used extensively. The only issue is that with the pop-up flash, those bodies are not as well weather sealed.</p> <p>As far as I can recall, this is the very first time I have even heard of such flash flicker issues. I did a quick search on Google, and this very thread is the first to come up. It is important to send both the cameras and flashes to Nikon so that they can reproduce the problem. Obviously all D700 bodies and SB-900 flashes are still under their original warranty.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcgphoto Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Frank, thanks for the input<br> Okay, tried a ProPhoto flash..same thing after a while, but that flash is much lighter and a smaller hot shoe arrangement, not really a fair test, tried a SB-80DX...flicker<br> Don't use a Stroboframe...personal choice here, the way in which I work is to provide minimum distraction to my subjects, I've found, and seen, the size of the stroboframe arrangement attracts my subjects attention, and as I want to be invisible to document the proceedings......but I digress.<br> Flicks in manual, ttl, A and every mode, if I suspect it's a hot shoe seating (be it flash or camera difficulty) You know how when you connect a synch cord to a studio flash that's powered on? The flash fires because of the connection? Well that seems to be what I'm getting, the flicker or strobing is because the small amount of space connects, disconnects, connects, disconnects as the weight of the flash settles into the hotshoe, the flash IR fires to focus (I can see this in reflections) I suppose if I haven't used enough metaphors, it's when you screw a lightbulb in to a socket where the circuit is closed, at some point there will be just enough contact to allow current to flow, but the bulb isn't seated correctly and it flickers...this is EXACTLY what happens with all my flashes.<br> Su800 commander will trigger the flash, but not the TTL, and it fires only when the camera is absolutely still.<br> Frank, I'm not really sure the pop up flash is the culprit per se, but it may very well represent an issue based on the housing, you may be on to something there. I don't use a D300 (I want a full frame) but is the D700 based on the D300 body or the D3 minus the flash?<br> Shun, I did the same check and nothing as well. Thankfully the cameras are still under warranty.<br> Thanks for the input folks, I appreciate the responses, and will be looking in on this post to update and answer any questions.<br> Hopefully the Nikon repair people will tell me something more valuable than they merely swapped the hot shoes out. That's the most frustrating thing of all.<br> Daniel</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo5 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Not using a Stroboframe. So all your vertical photos with flash are lit from the side? We used the "flip" stroboframes during weddings, and we never felt there was a distraction to the subjects. Getting the correct lighting was more important. Plus you can always remove your camera from the stroboframe if you want and shoot loose without flash.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcgphoto Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Dave, I bounce the flash from side walls getting a much nicer lighting, again, it's personal choice.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaytana__tim_adams_ Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Sorry you're having these problems, Daniel. </p> <p>Joining sportsshooter.com just to query other pros about this issue might be a lot of work, but that's the first site that occurred to me when I read that you'd like feedback from those who use their equipment as many hours/week as you do. </p> <p>Good luck.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_. Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>I had the same problem last year with my D200. It appeared that the flickering was not unheard of since the guy at the Nikon counter immediately stated that they have to replace the hotshoe. Note that my D200 only got moderate amateur use with the occasional wedding thrown in. Apart from weddings I rarely use flash.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspendedmoments Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 <p>Hi Daniel,<br> I'll be watching this thread, as it deals with equipment I "constantly" use...<br> I guess the reason I'm chiming in, is that unlike you, I tend to abuse my equipment... I've banged the SB-900 around pretty good while mounted on the D700... trees, rain, other equipment... <br> I do notice that it fits more securely than the SB-800 so I don't mount the 800 to the D700 hot shoe at all. The 900 has a thicker mount I believe... none the less, I mention this because I basically wake up each day with a camera in my hand and shoot into the night. I am frequently attaching and then stowing equipment for re-locating.<br> I've never had this problem and "knock on wood" don't want any problems if I can help it. I will be very interested in what you eventually learn, so please do share the findings of those at Nikon... <br> In closing, I have to ask... other than the sputtering light, did you lose any function? Has the equipment actually gone down and been rendered non-functional?<br> I wish you the best of luck in resolving this annoyance.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterh Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 <p>Daniel I remember a post a while ago on dpreview about a hot shoe corrosion at a d700. Not the same problem but might be worth to look it up.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conwaygroup Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 <p>FWIW...I once dropped a D2H about 3 feet and it landed on a hardwood floor directly on the hot shoe. The impact bent the flanges on the shoe inward so that my SB-800 could no longer be fitted to the camera. I had to take a tool and bend the shoe flanges out slightly and have not had a problem since. You are right that the 900 is big and I suppose it is very possible that it could act like a lever and cause some deformation of the hot shoe. Do you store the camera in a bag with the flash attached? Does the flash seem loose when mounted? If so then that is probably what has happened.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_murray1 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 <p >Daniel I have just joined this forum as I had been searching for a solution to this problem and read your post. I too am a career photographer shooting all day, every day. I shoot allot of interiors using my d700 + sb800 as a commander unit and this is driving me nuts.. It has become progressively worse. </p> <p > </p> <p >I have also tried several flash combos to no avail . I have cleaned the hot shoe adapter and tightened the spring load - which seemed to work for a very short time. There is definitely a manufacturing issue. Unfortunately for me I have just made the change from dx gear to fx gear and cannot afford to be without my d700 while off for repairs. I may have to buy a new d700 before I can send my current one off ..</p> <p > </p> <p >I have spent a min of 10k a year on Nikon gear and as someone who will continue to spend with Nikon there should be some sort of pro photographers support.. i.e. quicker repairs - loan gear - direct support etc..</p> <p > </p> <p >anyway I have no real solution yet, but I will be doing some more research and I will advise accordingly.</p> <p > </p> <p >Ta Stuart</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_murray1 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 <p>Update:<br> I spoke to Nikon Australia (I am in Brisbane Australia) - they have a pro register which gives you priority repairs & support .They wont discuss the issue (admit no liability ) - so you must send the camera for repair. As I stupidly did not buy from an Authorised dealer I do not qualify for warranty repair or priority service.<br> Possible fix. I spoke directly to a local nikon repair centre tech, who I am familiar with. He has dealth with this problem before and confirms it is the hot shoe contact shorting, and suggested cleaning the hot shoe - paying particular attention to the spring loaders on each side. He suggested using a pencil eraser and or some metho and a cloth. <br> I have tried this using a old sensor swab and some metho, and I also ran the tip of a pen lid under the springs to create a tighter lock when the speedlight is loaded. I cant see this been a long term fix - but it seems to have fixed the prob for now..<br> Daniel - I would suggest you will have to send your d700's off for repair and ask them to give you some priority - try and have a chat to a Nikon rep. You obviously buy allot of gear and spend allot on their product, they should be doing everything to assist you.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcgphoto Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 <p>Stuart, would really like to get in direct contact with you about this one, anything I can tell Nikon will be a help<br> Thanks mate.<br> Daniel</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_lee32 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 <p>I am experiencing the same issues with my D700, it has about 7800 actuations on it, started on July 11 while shooting a wedding.<br> Seems to be more common when using by SB-900's it does occur with my SB-800's but less frequently.<br> I dropped my camera off at Nikon Canada yesterday, and they said it was a circuit problem with the hotshoe, I asked if it is common of course they said no!<br> I got an NPS loaner D700 from them and it is working fine so not sure I've asked some colleagues and none have experienced it.<br> I'll post an update once I get the camera back!<br> Cheers,<br> James</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_murray1 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 <p>Hi,<br> Please get us as much information from them as you can, I was told today to update my firmware from 1.0 to 1.01. If that doesnt work they will change the hot shoe @ 215.00 aud - not sure if that included the circuit too... ( I dont get NPS or warranty as I bought from a store that imports direct from Asia ) saved 1000.00 aud but dont get the NPS service...<br> Please try ask them what exactly they did so I can tell the techs here..</p> <p>Cheers Stuart</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_lee32 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 <p>They replaced the hotshoe entirely and said is it was a circuit problem with the hotshoe. They managed to return it to me in 24 hours which was good!<br> I asked if there have been any reports in Canada of a similar nature and they said no (which is the typical Nikon answer)<br> It seems to be working fine right now I'll be using it on Saturday this week heavily if there are any issues I'll update.<br> That being said they didn't seem to concerned about changing the hotshoe, I'm assuming based on that it's a pretty simple repair, no circuit boards to be changed etc.<br> Good Luck<br> James</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_lee32 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 <p>BTW I upgraded my firmware prior to having the repair done, no change whatsoever!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuddi_wijaya Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 <p>Daniel, I have same problem with my D700 and SB900, I think SB900 cause this problem, before I use SB800, and work prefectly, and since I have this problem, I try SB400, SB600, SB800, and they firing as you said.<br> Now I never put SB900 directly to camera hot shoe, I use Commander mode (CLS), I try to upgrade SB900 firmware, also D700 firmware, and reset the camera setting also, but nothing happen...<br> I live in Indonesia, soon we will hear a lots of D700 have this problem after they use SB900 for couples times...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_skartsilas Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 <p>Hallo...I'm from Greece, and I have exactly the same problem. I tried the combination between SB 900 and my second D80 and after some shots the same problem occurs. As I notice, the space left for flash gun's shoe to slide is much fatter than gun's thickness. So...please don't laugh, I tried to repair it using a little hammer. It took me about one hour of hitting precisely trying to avoid any damage of the contacts and other materials.<br> After all, I have a system working properly since now, one week after the "operation"..:)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_murray1 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Hi all again<br> I have had nikon service centre replace the following - contacts, hot shoe, all circuitry attached to unit. This did not work - so they opened it up again - double checked it all again. No luck - still not working..Contact points are tight - this is not the issue.. - - also hammering your hot shoe (even lightly is very very bad for the camera internal mechanisms - it could mess up your shutter or many other very delicate mechanisms - I would not do this ) - sorry I can not shed any light on this.. yet..<br> stuart</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_finn Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 <p>I just started having the exactly same problem today on an assignment. Luckily I used a backup camera to finish the shoot. I've been using the D700 with no problems with the SB600 for over six months. I just bought an SB-900 and have been only using that on 6 shooting assignments and now these symptoms with the unpredictable strobing effect and not firing the flash when taking pictures. I was hoping that cleaning it would solve the problem but it looks like a hardware repair. I was using the SB900 in portrait mode and setting the camera down between shots to give instructions to each portrait taker. I switched back to my SB600 but it exhibited the same symptoms. Possibly, the SB-900 shorted something out. I hope someone else finds a solution aside from sending in for warranty service and losing the use of my camera.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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