Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Rick Helmke, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Thanks, Ben. That matches my hazy recollections: the CCD lets you "store" the sensor pixel values prior to read-out, meaning that further light (within reason) doesn't affect them after that point and they can be read out at leisure (and they can be reset collectively too). That would allow a true global shutter.

    This suggests two separate modes of operation: either "digitally exposing" the whole sensor and relying on the mechanical shutter to expose the frame (with different exposure times at different points, as for a normal mechanical focal-plane shutter), or locking the shutter blades open and exposing the sensor only at the desired time. I assume the D1 does the latter only during flash sync, although I've not checked the manual.
  2. Andrew,

    Anecdotally, it's been my understanding that the D1 does this on all shutter speeds above 1/250(the shutter travel time).

    I don't know of any other Nikon at least(possibly not any other "common" camera) with a maximum shutter speed of 1/16,000-even the D5 and Z7 max at 1/8,000. It's been explained to me that this "retreat" in speeds was because the D1 fast speeds were entirely electronic. The D2 series of course does not use CCDs-the D2H uses Nikon's proprietary LBCAST sensor(which I understand is more like a CMOS in principle) and the D2X uses a Sony CMOS.

    In any case, I've not tried it up to crazy high speeds, but with my D1 series cameras when I sync via the PC socket, I don't see shutter curtain artifacts-I just see a decrease in exposure across the frame since the light duration is longer than the sensor is "on."

    Of course, the value of having 1/16,000 shutter speeds is questionable, especially in a digital camera. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've even used 1/4000, especially since in my personal outdoor photography I'm often doing my best to work at f/5.6 or f/8(generally a safe place unless I've specifically tested the lens) and I'm either using ISO 50 or 100 slide film, or keeping the ISO of the digital camera as low as possible. Indoors, getting a high enough shutter speed is usually the issue. I could see the value of a shutter speed that fast if you were shooing ISO 400 film in full sun and wanted to have your lens as wide open as possible, but even 1/16,000 won't get you to f/1.4(there comes a time where you should need to start stacking NDs, but back in the film days if I really wanted to use an aperture larger than the maximum shutter speed of the camera would allow and I was shooting color negative film, I'd just overexpose it-most any color negative film will handle a stop or two gracefully, and more than that if you're daring). I can't think of much action that 1/8000 won't stop(perhaps if I stuck a camera inside a mass spec and wanted to photograph one of the turbo pumps spinning at 10K rpms, but if I really wanted a photo of that I'd just photograph one outside the instrument, and I also don't know how my cameras and lenses would handle high vacuum), although admittedly the lack of concern about distortion from the shutter is a big plus. At least we're not still using Speed Graphics to cover auto races and getting the consequent oval wheels from them!
    Andrew Garrard likes this.
  3. Thanks, Ben. There were consumer bodies with CCDs and faster-than-their-mechanical-shutter-speed sync (the D70 and D40 can do 1/500s, for example), so I assume they do the same but artificially don't stretch as far as the D1. The D4x apparently can't do it at all, and hits the now consumer standard 1/200s. At least, I assume the older consumer bodies didn't have extremely fast mechanical shutters.

    I remember a sample image from the D1 introduction that showed an internal scene with bubbling water running from a tap. It was completely frozen and undistorted, because of a very short shutter speed in a global shutter; to do it with a modern camera you'd need to match that output from a flash with a very small and discrete output duration. I've been known to try to freeze things in flight, and sometimes run into the limit of my flash duration. No doubt it's a specific use case, though!
  4. Battery life is certainly an issue with mirrorless cameras. This is due to the limited size of the battery compartment and (more important) the high power overhead of maintaining the EVF and/or back screen. The Sony A9 and model 3 A7's have made huge strides in this regard. The FZ100 batteries have twice the capacity of the earlie FZ50 batteries, and the newer cameras use 40% less power. By powering down during idle time, I seldom have to change batteries in a day of serious shooting (1000+/day in Ireland last spring). Taking single frames, it's not unusual to get 600 images or 5 hours per charge. whichever comes first. Shooting bursts, the count can exceed 6000/charge. I can shoot 2.5 hours of HD video on a single charge, using an external recorder (Ninja V), and over 1 hour recording internally. The camera gets barely warm in this time.

    Regarding auto focusing, the Sony A9 has nearly 700 phase detectors, compared to 150 for the Nikon D5, covering over 90% of the field of view, instead of about 25% for the Nikon. Furthermore, there is no need for calibration, because they're located in the sensor, not the viewfinder, and they work all the time except at the moment of exposure. Having owned an A9 for nearly a year (and still learning), I'm convinced negative reviews about AF are due to inexperience with the camera and the many options affecting AF. Tracking not only works flawlessly, it is almost too sticky. The designated subject can leave the FOV momentarily, and be picked up again when visible.

    We haven't even touched on exposure control, including a "Face Priority" mode.

    It is very early to be talking about a Nikon D6. According to rumors, Canon has already postponed (or abandoned) releasing a new DSLR. Canikon mirrorless cameras have some catching up to do, and the target is moving at full speed. In any event, the die is cast for the future
  5. Digital cameras do not suffer from reciprocity failure, unlike film, for long or very shot exposures. The problem with operation in high vacuum is heat dissipation, not functionality.
  6. Ed - I suspect it came up because there have already been rumours of both a D6 and a D760. Not detailed ones, and for all I know rumours generated by someone thinking "it's about time Nikon updated these bodies", but not out of the blue. Whether they're "due replacing" depends as ever on what the competition does - the D5 is still the best tool for the job some of the time, but in other cases the A9 or 1DxII will be. For the D750, I don't know whether the 6DII is a massively high seller, I don't know how much Nikon feel the squeeze from different versions of the A7, and I don't know whether they feel the Z 6 is "the answer". They may not know themselves yet.
  7. If I stuck a DSLR in a mass spectrometer at 10^-5 torr or better, I'd be concerned about things like the lubricants starting to offgas and go places that they shouldn't.

    Not planning on doing, both for the health of my cameras and my mass specs :)
  8. So, no one longer believes in a D5s before the D6?
  9. FWIW, I just took a peek in the D1 manual. Although the fastest shutter speed is 1/16000s ("combined electronic and mechanical"), the fastest flash sync speed seems to be 1/500s. Still better than the current cameras with purely mechanical shutters, but not by an order of magnitude. Given the CCD, I'm actually a little surprised that it couldn't go faster if it wanted to. Apologies for conflating specs. Given that the D5 (and D850) have the same 1/250s flash sync speed as the D500 but the D500's shutter only has to move 2/3 as far, I'd almost expect the high-end DX bodies to have a faster flash sync purely mechanically, but I assume an electronic shutter is involved in the D1 getting to 1/500s. Or it's just possible that I still don't understand Nikon cameras. :) (In my defence, this was before my time.)

    I guess we'd have expected to see a minor D5 refresh by now? Not that I'm quite sure what would go in it. (This doesn't mean I don't have a list, just that I don't know which parts Nikon would obviously prioritise.) The D850 doesn't add all that much which would be appropriate for a D5s body. Nikon could choose to call a replacement whatever they like, of course.
  10. IIRC correctly, then the D1 has only one shutter curtain - so under all circumstances, the shutter is electronic.
  11. Really? I thought the D1 was mostly a hybrid of the F5 and F100 (I'm not entirely sure which bits are F100), so I'd have expected Nikon to use an existing mechanical shutter design. Taking a shutter curtain out would seem to be more engineering effort than sticking to the F5's shutter design.
  12. If I recall correctly, the F5 has two shutter curtains one in front of each other to minimize light leaks; this would be unnecessary in a digital camera. I would think starting from the regular shutter in the F100 would be more sensible.
  13. Like I said, AFAIK the D1 will sync at any speed if you're using the PC socket. If I have the time this weekend, I'll test it(I just got a really great deal on a Norman beauty dish-one of the things I'd been missing from my kit-and I want to play with that also...again time permitting and contingent on me finishing grading the stack of exams I'm staring at).

    Also, the shutter curtain thing should be REASONABLY easy to recognize with mirror prefire(I hope it's there-I don't recall) and a shutter speed long enough to watch what's actually going on. I just have to charge up some D1 series batteries, which of course is a constant battle in and of itself.
  14. Ah, thanks. And I also tripped across the critical information (which I think I knew in the past and forgot) about the PC socket being different from the hotshoe, which is a distinction I'd failed to register in Ben's post. IIRC there should be a D-TTL (mirror up, curtain closed) prefire with TTL flash.

    Ilkka: Two overlapping pairs of shutter curtains on the F5?

    Ah... according to the obvious place to check, if I'm reading it right, there are just two curtains (made of eight blades), but their resting position was completely crossed over, giving double thickness in front of the film. (I believe a normal shutter has the blades crossed a bit on return, to avoid a double exposure). I guess that means one of the shutter blades has to travel the length of the film aperture before the exposure can start? Which would be fine if it happened while the mirror was moving out of the way, but this mechanism was there to deal with mirror lock-up... so I guess having the mirror up didn't help shutter lag at all. I suppose, so long as it can race the aperture mechanism, it's still not an issue. (Or does the shutter stop down in mirror lock-up? That I could actually check. One more for the list of things I should already know about the F mount...)

    I could try staring at the back of my F5 and seeing what the blades look like, but I'm not too keen to prod them with anything just to count them! I might be able to spot the movement direction when dry firing. I have a busy weekend coming, but on the remote chance I'm sufficiently ahead of myself I might try videoing things with my V1 and reporting back.
  15. Can't associate the D1 or F100 to the F5. They look and feel a lot different.
  16. Most film camera has 2 shutter curtain but only one is closed at a time. The F5 shutter closes both curtain.
  17. I would say that the D1 series-especially the original D1-have pretty obvious origins in the F5 and in fact switching back and forth between them is nearly seamless. The D1 basically feels like an F5 that never runs out of film.

    The ergonomics and control layout are virtually the same-Nikon hadn't yet realized that there are settings that are either never messed with or set once per roll at most with film but might be changed from shot to shot on digital(namely ISO). Nikon also hadn't yet realized that they could make lists of custom functions that could be browsed/set from a menu, and custom functions on a D1 work just like on an F5 or an F100-hold down the "CSM" button, spin the rear dial to get to the function number you want, and the front dial to change the function(heaven help you if you don't have a manual, as I imagine even the most dedicated users only memorized which of the 30-some-odd CFs they actually used).

    In "Early DX" thread that's running on here, I described by struggles to get RAW files out of the D1. Basically, you have to go in and enable RAW recording using a custom function whose number I don't recall, but there again it has a default value of "0" meaning RAW disabled, and can be set to "1" to enable RAW. You then have to pick a somewhat cryptic setting under "Qual" that actually corresponds to RAW.
  18. 28
  19. Sounds right :)

    I've spent the last couple of days writing, giving, and grading a final on chromatography and my brain is fried...(esp. from grading).

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