Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Rick Helmke, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. I'm hearing a few noises about Nikon bringing out a D6. Anyone seen information on it? Snap Chick claims to be getting one at any moment and will post a first look. I thought the D5 had only been out a couple of years but I don't keep up as well as I once did.

    Rick H.
  2. Being that the Z-series picked up with 6 and 7 I figured the F- and D-series lineage of pro oversized bodes was done. Just my hunch.

    Eric Sande
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  3. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    IMO that is completely nonsense. I do believe that will be a D6 prior to the 2020 Summer Olympics, which happens to be hosted by Tokyo. Therefore it will be an even bigger showcase for Canon and Nikon to show off their latest sports cameras. They had the 1DX Mark 2 and D5, respectively, before the 2016 Rio Olympics. The next generation appearing after 4 years is pretty much expected. I have no insider information, but I don't think mirrorless is ready to compete against DSLRs for dedicated sports photography yet by 2019, 2020. Any D6 might as well be the final installment of Nikon's dedicated F-mount sports camera. In another 4, 5 years, mirrorless will likely pull ahead of DSLRs.

    In any case, anybody who has a Nikon D6 prototype for testing must be under strict NDA. There is no way they will release any advanced information to the public as some "first look."

    However, the D5 is excellent. It is not clear to me what Nikon can improve to justify a new D6. They can certainly improve the video capability, but that is something mirrorless will do better. Maybe Nikon can improve the D5's AF a bit.
  4. Okay I'm busted. I watched the video again and after listening to it about 6 times I realized he said Z6, not D6. I do expect a D6 in a few years and the Olympics seems like a good time to bring it out. I've been shooting slr cameras for so long though that I wonder if I will ever warm up to mirrorless. Maybe one will reach out and grab me the way some earlier cameras, digital and film, have done. Sorry for the mixup, too much loud rock and roll.

    Rick H.
  5. So both the Nikon F and D stop at 6? No wonder the Z started at 6.
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  6. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    OK, never mind. :cool:
  7. That said, one of the rumour sites has started to report that the D6 will be "available for testing" in February. That could mean an imminent release, it may mean a release a long time later after more refinement (like the 5D2 testing which ran on so long that I switched to Nikon), it may mean testing alongside a mirrorless system, it could be a confused report, or it could just be myth. But it's the first I've heard that seemed to be anything other than "on previous cadence we'd expect it to be before the 2020 Olympics".

    There are plenty of things I'd like added to dSLRs (list coming in my holidays rather than my year-end work crunch). In terms of raw hardware, the D5 is a bit of a one-trick pony in terms of low-ISO dynamic range (the D4 and D4s being more balanced between low and high ISO), and adding sensor AF to make it a better video camera wouldn't be out of character for a camera in its market position. I've absolutely no internal knowledge, though - and as Shun says, the D5 is extremely capable.
  8. Take the video function out. A DSLR can't beat a mirrorless with video.
  9. Why? Or at least, why can't it be identical? Okay, short of a hybrid finder you'd have to use the rear LCD (or an external monitor), but the sensor can be identical, once the mirror is out of the way. Canon dSLR bodies do perfectly reasonable video AF, as far as I know.

    The 5D series were extremely popular with journalists because, in part, they were a single system that could take press-quality photos but also do video segments with the same kit. I'm not a photojournalist, but I would have expected the "D6" to appeal to the same market. Otherwise leaving things to the Z9 to do both seems like giving up.
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  10. Not at all, I believe Nikon are not planning the termination of the DSLR line but they are designing the two lines to be complementary, not replacing one another.

    Z6 and Z7 are upper mid end cameras, with possibly a Z5 that could be a low-end model in the future, and Z9 a fully pro model. Compare with the D6x0, D7x0, etc. In no way are Z6 and Z7 updates to the D5; the stuff that the D5 does well is what the Z6 and Z7 do not.
  11. Not necessarily beat, but equal, it can. And without overheating.
  12. You wouldn't have the viewfinder. Besides if I shoot the D5 and need video it wouldn't be either a cost or weight problem for me to carry the Z6. For 8K video the sensor must be at least 32MP or so and I am not sure the D6 would have such a high res sensor.
    The heating problem should be the same for either mirrorless or DSLR.
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  13. A viewfinder can be provided using a similar mechanism as in the F5; you press some buttons and it comes off. You could get electronic, optical, sports etc viewfinders, some suitable for video and others only for stills. A lot of television and film are shot on larger setups and often not using an EVF but with external screens (in fact you can get both for existing cameras already). I am not suggesting this is practical but for someone using Nikon F mount lenses and needing to do some video, using the same rig as is used for stills, this might be a possibility. Probably it won't happen though. Nikon prefer to sell multiple cameras for specialized purposes.
    I have no doubt the Z6 is much more reasonable for video applications than the D6 will be.

    8K video? Really? I know some professional videographers and they aren't typically even shooting 4K; fullhd seems to be all they really need. The problem is it's the computational cost of editing, storage, etc., the viewing media isn't anywhere near requiring 4K, and neither is the content.

    A DSLR of D6 size has much more space available which means the electronics can be packed more sparsely which should help keep it cool during video recording. Furthermore, since Nikon do not use IBIS in their DSLRs, the heat from the sensor can be more effectively transferred elsewhere, reducing the risk of overheating. A large size allows better heat sinking and even a fan could be included.
  14. I'd be surprised if Nikon bothered with a removable viewfinder - it's an area where things can break or for environmental ingress, and my understanding is that not many people bought the F5 accessory finders. Although I'd have a WLF myself if they weren't a bit expensive. Admittedly the EVF/OVF choice is a bit more radical.

    I don't see a viewfinder as critical for video - where there's a good chance you would benefit from some kind of camera support anyway (a gimbal or tripod...) - either the rear LCD or an accessory monitor are likely more critical. Not that using an EVF is entirely useless (especially in bright light), and I would like to see a hybrid finder offering extra information in an overlay on the OVF, but if a camera is being used for a mix of stills and video I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the lack of EVF. You could always attach an accessory one (e.g., this, having checked they exist) to the flash socket.

    I do see there being a reason for having one system that can do both. Carrying around two sets of lenses is never going to be as convenient, and I, at least, have found myself pointing at something and wanting to toggle between stills and video - again, I'm no photojournalist, but two systems would have irritated me even if I just had to hop lenses across between the two (in rain, dust or smoke).

    There are rumours of a Sony 8k multi-aspect sensor with high readout speed, possibly with more of a view to 2x oversampling 4k than for actually shooting 8k. I do have mild lust for the Dell 8k monitor (which is slowly becoming more affordable), but then I'm also hoping Apple will eventually realise it would be helpful to stick a 4K screen in a MacBook. 4K UHD video is becoming more common (both in broadcast and the newish Blu-Ray standard), and many phones will shoot 4k so it's not so rare to create it; whether it's an obvious thing to create with a single-digit D camera is another matter, but I do have half an eye on the D850 sensor being able to 2x oversample 4k, which the D810 can't. There are some events being shot in 16K, for future-proofing, but that puts a lot of demand on both lens quality and hitting focus correctly.

    I've said for a while that HDR 8k 60fps with decent autofocus has the chance of making a change to the way journalistic photography happens - when you can pull a high quality image out of a video sequence after the fact, it changes the need to have "the perfect moment" on your shutter, and combining multiple shots gives you better ways to handle long exposures, as some cellphones are proving. Even being able to capture the last few seconds to an on-camera buffer and retrospectively choose which one(s) to write to card, avoiding the worst of the storage overload problems, would be quite a change. Not that doing this in 4K is so unreasonable for a lot of uses (I have a 6MP dSLR and some okay images from it, 8MP from 4K is already a step up). I doubt we'll be there for a "D6" though.

    There are adapted dSLRs with Peltier coolers on the sensor. They're a bit bulky and use a lot of power, but maybe Nikon could do better in house.
  15. Nikon has been pretty good about following more or less a 4 year cycle for their flagship DSLRs.


    2020 would make sense, especially when you factor in the Tokyo Olympics aspect.

    With that said, I've only briefly played with the D5 but I have the impression that anything NIkon can do will be more "tweaking" than going nuts with new features or a complete redesign. I don't see a huge bump in resolution-24mp seems a realistic number, but probably not higher-Nikon will want to make sure they can keep the high ISO performance that's now associated with the single digit cameras. I can't see the resolution staying the same, but at the same time if does get bumped it would be(IMO) foolhardy if it meant giving up the usable ISO 102,400 of the D5.

    Arguably, though, cameras since the D3 have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The D3s upped the high ISO game over the D3 by 1-2 stops, while from what I've seen the D4(and I was close to buying one a fairly short time ago) is about the same at high ISOs(but does do low ISOs a bit more gracefully than the D3s). The D5 seems to be a 1-2 stop improvement over the D3s at high ISOs, while holding the low ISO performance of the D4.

    Yes, AF could be improved, but the D5 is already at the top of its class.

    So, since I like to make predictions out of my rear end, here's my best guess for the D6 when it comes around:

    24mp backside-illuminated sensor(hopefully to give at least comparable if not better high ISO performance than the D5)
    I don't do video, but I'd expect "better"/easier to use video
    AF improvements will likely be in the form of things like more sensors covering more of the frame, more cross-type sensors, and perhaps more f/8-capable sensors(or maybe even f/11 if that's even possible). Nikon might add another stop or two of low-light performance if they can.
    If it's even possible within the limits of an SLR, perhaps a boost in frame rate. I say that, though, but I wouldn't have thought 12fps with a returning mirror would be possible(the F2 needs MLU to do 5 fps, and the F5/D1/D1H is already a slide show at 8fps).
    I expect the dual CF option to disappear completely, and the D6 will only have dual XQD(or perhaps CFexpress by 2020)
    Since the D5 card bay has to be able to hold dual CFs regardless of how the camera is actually configured, I expect the D6 to have a smaller card bay(I'm looking at my D3s right now, and the card bay door takes up a significant chunk of real estate-I don't think the D5 has changed this appreciably). That gives Nikon room to tweak the control layout, which we know is pretty much a given. I'm not a customer for the D6, but I love having the focus area toggle switch right under my thumb and wish that would return, but I seriously doubt that will happen.
    A tweaked LCD with probably more touch screen functionality is a given, although I wonder if Nikon will put a tilting screen on the flagship camera.

    I was kind of halfway expecting an "S" version this year. In general, I've considered the "S" refreshes pretty underwhelming(with the exception of the much improved sensor in the D3s and the addition of a second card slot on the D300s) and the usual pattern seems to just be to tweak the LCD and maybe a few other controls. I don't know if there's even enough for Nikon to do to even make an "S" version.

    BTW, we have a nice history of Nikon working the sensor out of the pro camera into a consumer-class body-the D700 with the D3 sensor, and the Df with the D4 sensor. The D750 is probably due for an upgrade(D760?) and it might be nice to see it get the D5 sensor. It wouldn't be a totally unprecedented move, either, since the D7500 dropped the tried-and-true 24mp DX sensor used in the D7200(and a bunch of other cameras) in favor of the 20mp sensor from the D5.
  16. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    The introduction of Nikon flagship SLRs has been coincide with the Summer Olympics for many decades. During the film era, it was more or less every 8 years, i.e. every other Summer Olympics. The introduction of new models is a lot more frequent during the digital era, especially the early years of digital. Things have slowed down in the last few years. For example, there were D2[HX]s, D3s and D4s half-cycle S updates, but there is no D5s now.

    During the film era:
    • F3: 1980 Moscow Olympics
    • F4: 1988 Seoul Olympics
    • F5: 1996 Atlanta Olympics
  17. Come to think of it, what can Nikon make the DSLR better than the mirrorless? AF? Certainly not frame rate.
  18. BeBu, autofocus and battery life for starters. For some, that is more than enough.
  19. While the Z AF aren't as good as the D5 but Sony A9 is up there. Battery life wouldn't be a problem if Nikon put the same size battery as in the D5. Mirrorless isn't for compactness any more. In the beginning the mirrorless are much smaller but because they also have much smaller sensors. Besides Shun doesn't like the small size of his Z6.

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