Crown Graphic questions

I'm looking at a minty 4 by 5 Crown Graphic at a local pawn shop. It

has a viewer on top, a rangefinder on the side, and a 127mm Ektar

lens, but no film holders. Asking price is $450 Cdn. Is this

reasonable? Does this camera have front standard tilt (for focus

plane adjustment for landscape shots)?

I've looked on that auction site but don't know how to see completed

auctions for prices paid for this type of camera. Does anyone have a

good sense of what a reasonable price is?

Thank you for your help.

The price is high, and you tilt the lens by dropping the bed and then tilting and raising the lens back wot where you want it.

Frank, Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com) has a Crown Graphic w. 135 Raptar listed for $349. They also have a 4X5 Crown Special w. 135 Schneider Xenar listed at $429. Call Midwest and talk to Jim (and only Jim). Tell him you saw this on the large format forum. He will give you the best deal. Pawnshops are not the best place to buy (or sell) photo gear. By the way, don't worry about film holders. They are readily available, and used ones are not expensive.

Frank, Try this for completed Crown Graphics on eBay:

 

http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&query=crown+graphic&from=R2&ht=1&category0=625&combine=y&st=2&SortProperty=MetaEndSort

 

All you do for completed searches is to first do a regular search, and then scroll down a bit and look on the left side where it says 'complered auctions' or something like that. good luck!

As of December 9, 2002, $450 Cdn is about $288 US. I went to everyone's favorite large auction site and did a "completed item" search for "Crown Graphic." $288 US seems to be in the range of items recently sold there, but a little on the high side.

I'd say high since you don't get a holder. Depends on how "minty" it is though.

 

I got mine from "The-Auction-Site-Formerly-Known-As-Ebay" and payed $150. Same setup, just not minty. In good shape though.

 

Sort of your call. It may be worth the few extra bucks to just be able to test the shutter. Film holders are cheap.

I got my 4x5 Crown Graphic for $280 US. I got it with a 135mm f4.7 Schneider lens, 18 Riteway film holders, an Ednalite ground glass loupe, and a box of Tri-X from 1982. As far as I can tell the Tri-x is still good and I have half of a box of 100 sheets. Here's a pic of the camera.<div></div>

Frank,

 

If movements are important you might want to check out a Super Graphic instead of the Crown. However, if the Crown meets your needs, be sure to check the bellows carefully, take a bright flashlight with you and shine it inside the bellows at all the corners. Other then that, they are fun cameras!

 

Enjoy,

Thank you all for your responses.

My need for movements is simple: front rise to correct converging verticals in architecture, and front tilt to use the Schlimfleg (sp?) principal for tilting the plane of focus for a landscape shot with near to far focus. Is the Crown Graphic the camera for me? Can it accomplish these movements? It is certainly much cheaper than a used 4 by 5 field camera with lens.

One additional comment. The 127mm lens may not provide you with adequate coverage for what you want to do with it.

Harry

I agree that the 127mm lens won't work for you. Consider, also, that the movements which you do have are, for all purposes, limited to shooting in the "landscape" or horizontal mode. To take pictures in the vertical mode you have to turn the camera on its side, thus loosing most of the movements. I'd say that for your needs, get either a Super Graphic or a Busch Pressman Model D, and at least a 150mm lens.

You don't have enough rise to to use the dropping bed for front tilt with a "normal" 127-135mm lens. The shutter-release mechanism would get in the way of a forward tilt - so the camera doesn't have it.

 

You can't rotate the back, and don't have enough lateral movement to act as rise if you mount the camera on its side. There is a side tripod socket, but you have to remove the hand-strap to get to it.

 

You probably don't need the Scheimflug effect for most outdoor scenes, but you would be missing half the fun of large-format photography.

 

Still, the price seems reasonable for a camera and lens in good condition. It's very portable and still gives you the stunning detail and absence of grain of 4x5 film. It fits in a backpack, too (e.g., a LowePro Photo Trekker.) What good is a camera that stays home?

Frank:

 

The price is slightly high but keep in mind that a camera from the US will cost more that you might think because of exchange, shipping, and tax (you will probably have to pay GST). I bought a very nice Crown about 5 years ago in Ottawa for $385 Canadian. It had a cammed 162mm Wollensak and everything worked fine. If you are going to buy this camera, make sure that the lens is good with no fungus and that the shutter works properly. A shutter overhaul can add quite a bit to the cost. If the lense is not cammed and you want to use the rangefinder, a cam will cost you (I think) probably 15 or 20 bucks (US).

 

The Crown does not have front forward tilt but it does have backward tilt and the standard can actually be turned around to give you forward tilt. If you are not on a tight budget, I strongly recommend getting another camera. I have a Crown (as well as a few other cameras) and I like it fine for what it is, but if you want to do real large format work, you will find it very limiting. A Super Graphic is just as portable and has full front movements (no back movements).

 

Before buying at that price from a pawn shop, check it out completely - bellows, cam, lens, shutter, the works. If you are in Ottawa, get in touch with me. I would be happy to help.

 

Don Wallace

Don,

Thank you for the offer, unfortunately I live near Toronto.

Harry's pro shop had/has a real nice graphic but he wanted a wad for it. Personally I'd suggest getting a rail camera. Prices for stuff like the old Calumet are basically give aways.

Hi Frank, the price is reasonalbe, (of course there is the CA tax which is about 50% which kind of hurts) but like they have said here you want to make sure it is good condition. Fire the shutter at all speeds, even then plan on having it serviced. Let them know if it isn't light tight you don't want it at any price. It is worth more if it has the fancy graflock back (or however they spell it?). These cameras had two different kinds of back, and you will want to note which it has. Are there two chrome arms on the back? Is the glass in the lens coated? is it clear - no swipe marks? There is a guy in Toronto that sells these cameras, Mr. Hale at chale@icom.ca although I've never bought any thing from him, you might see what he has and his prices. Good luck, David

Thank you David,

I've had Mr. Hale repair an old pnuematic shutter for me. I think I'll drop him a line. From what I've been reading, I think a Bush Pressman D or Super Graphic is what I'll be happier with due to their front movements.

Thank you all for your responses!

Well, for my typical opposing view on this issue you can see the archives, but in a nutshell: a great number of Crowns already have the front standard reversed. If it hasn't been reversed yet, a jeweler's screwdriver is all you need to do the job, it is very easy, and takes only a moment. Now you have all the front tilt you will ever be able to use. Rise is slightly limited compared to other field cameras. There are no back movements, but most landscape photographers don't use a lot of back movements. (I'll probably be screamed at by those who do, now.) For architecture you may want them, but then you probably don't want a field camera for architecture anyhow. There is no front swing or shift on a Crown, and this is a limitation for architecture. To use landscape format you must put the camera on its side as mentioned above, and this is another limitation because you lose the movements in portrait format.

 

You can get a bit more rise by drilling a lens board off center, though there isn't a whole lot of room to do that on those boards.

 

On the other hand, the cameras are cheap, light, and they do everything the average landscape photographer needs, most of the time. If it gets stolen or you drop it in the river it isn't the end of the world, which is a significant advantage in my view.

 

You can get a good body for a hundred bucks US if you look around, twice that if you don't feel like looking around. I can't figure out a reason for getting a mint one unless you are going to keep it on a shelf; leave those for the collectors. You want one you can bang around a little. It's just a well-designed box, after all.

 

Also, Crowns have some things their fancy-pants cousins do not, like for example rangefinders. (Okay, the real blue bloods like Linhof come with rangefinders.) It's fun to be able to use your 4x5 camera as a snapshot camera once in awhile. And, you can get a flash and use flashbulbs, which will practically illuminate the moon.

 

You can also try out large format photography inexpensively. And nothing says you can't buy other lenses and put them on the camera.

 

I think the price is more or less fair, particularly given it is at a shop where you can go inspect it and not deal with the hassle and risk of ebay (though I've had nearly uniform good luck with ebay, I should say). Do check the bellows, but they are generally not the failure point on these cameras, at least if it is a "newer" one. Also, try to get one with the grafloc back unless you are looking to save money.

 

Come to think of it, I don't know what the failure point is. Mine are all still going strong.

 

There are lots of archives on these fine cameras, and also www.graflex.org will tell you all you need to know. Good luck with your pictures.

Hi Frank, by the way, there is a camera flea market on Sunday Jan. 26 at the Thornhill Community Centre, and they usually have old press cameras there. Watch the Star for the add in the photo section, 427, for the date, location, and time. Best, David

Erik,

Very interesting. So you're saying that by reversing the front standard I can get all the tilt I need? The only drawback is when the camera is used in portrait mode there is no swing to act as tilt. So I might be able to be happy with this camera (at least most of the time) after all?

a few people commenting must not have used the crown.. their is definitly a forward tilt. you drop the bed and rise the lens up to the top and you can tilt it from 0 to about 15 degrees forward..also the tilt bed gives you drop of about an inch.. with the bed up you can rise aobut an inch and tilt back about 0-15 degrees.. this is a very fine camera, and will do a great job with most shots.. turn it on its side for side slide movements. it does have about a 3/8 side to side movement for the 135 lens length when held level.. the feet plate guide on the bed is the best way to focus strait shots.. just put the lens in and focus for best hyper focal distance for the subject. use ground glass for positioning, and chekcing corners for vigyetting..get a good tripod with levels on it and fix the snap on base on the camera all on level and time can reallyh be cut on that preciuse light in early am and evening when the light on the shot is fading fast. dave..