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CPS membership... what is going on?


paulie_smith

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<p>Canon Pro Service has changed its terms so now a number of older members no longer qualify. Have been shooting full time for some years, commercial and editorial work. EOS 3s', 40D's and a number of Canon and Nikon lenses that have tested sharpest for what I use them for. 4x5 and 8x10 gear also for studio and architectural work.<br>

Now the EOS 3's are no longer 'pro' gear per CPS. The 200 f/2.8 is not either, must upgrade to the model II to qualify. I specifically don't get the newer one because each time I have gone into Calumet to test shoot it against my current one I find my old trusted lens is sharper and has less lens flare. Why get a new one?<br>

So, CPS doesn't think I own enough NEW canon gear to be worthy of their service, get a few free camera straps, welcome letters and such. Funny thing is that my brother in law, the Dentist, qualifies easily and he has never sold a photograph in his life. The new qualifications are based on what current equipment one owns, no tear sheets, letters from editors or similar.<br>

Given that I keep the 40D's for news sports shooting because I tried and failed to get 3 1DMkIII bodies that would work(AF unreliable on all three even after the "Fix") - and finally gave up on them and will wait for the MkIV to come out, and I shoot Velvia with the EOS 3's as well as using them for photographing artist pieces for juried show entries.(some venues still prefer slides and I do a lot of it for a number of artists) The 4x5 gets used a lot for art reproduction as well as architecture.<br>

How can a 'pro service' cut off the people who use the gear for the very purpose the service is supposedly designed for because we use tried, tested and reliable gear rather than constantly buying new?<br>

Below is the link so you can go on and see if you qualify. Don't think that having a good 400 f/2.8 or 600 f/4 will do it. They aren't IS and no longer count as 'pro' gear according to CPS.<br>

<a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=StandardDisplayAct&fcategoryid=111&keycode=CPS">http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=StandardDisplayAct&fcategoryid=111&keycode=CPS</a></p>

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<p>Maybe it's really about following the money trail not the livelihood? Makes more sense economically as Canon stands to gain more by providing service to those whom buy the most gear. After all, Canon is a business. Pleasing gear hounds means pleasing stockholders and increasing the bottomline. In my business, music retail, pro musicians are the cheapest, most demanding and least loyal customers. My gentleman amateur customers keep coming back for more, are appreciative and thus get my full attention with all the trimmings. </p>

Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see.

- Robert Hunter

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<p>PF makes a valid and cogent point, but I suspect Paulie might feel better if Canon came right out and said that, rather than:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"We are also introducing equipment ownership requirements for each level to help keep this program strictly for the pros. Our intent is to strengthen our member population of true working professional photographers which are the people the program was created to support."</p>

</blockquote>

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<p>Paulie:</p>

<p>Why do you want to join CPS? The main benefits I see are repair discounts, better turnaround around times for service, and a loaner program.</p>

<p>My guess is that if you don't own current equipment, they can't guarantee fast response times for repairs.</p>

<p>I can see why they wanted to get away from having to pass a value judgment and instead have objective criteria that determine who qualifies. Their requirement of deriving 51% of your income from photography would most likely disqualify your brother-in-law, the dentist.</p>

<p>I believe I understand their objectives. It's hard to put black and white rules in effect to support exactly the photographers who should benefit most without excluding some inadvertently. Should somebody who buys a Rebel and starts shooting pictures for money while his/her spouse supports the family qualify for membership? How do you prevent that without making value judgements on how "professional" somebody is?</p>

<p>That said, I think current members should be grandfathered in. Seems fair.</p>

<p>Eric</p>

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<p>It does make you wonder a little, regarding the new requirements for CPS. Canon spends money advertising specific camera bodies and lenses as "professional grade." To me it makes sense not to enable a person to receive the benefits of membership in Canon Professional Services, when that person doesn't own any of the "professional grade" equipment (or very little).</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>In my business, music retail, pro musicians are the cheapest, most demanding and least loyal customers. My gentleman amateur customers keep coming back for more, are appreciative and thus get my full attention with all the trimmings.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I see the same issues at times with professional photographers, as those mentioned by PF about muscians. Note that the 40D's still qualify, and it is possible to pick-up 5D's at reasonable prices now.</p>

<p>I agree that CPS probably should have "grandfathered" current members into the new program, but not forever .... possibly a year. Just my 2 cents worth.</p>

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<p>There is no longer a requirement for tear sheet or proof of any kind one actually makes their living from photography. Just write it, own the newer gear and you are OK to go. The dentist and lawyer and weekend photo guy qualifies now if they are willing to lie on the application. No proof, just equipment receipts driving the deal.<br>

With a number of lenses and pro bodies one doesn't need to constantly upgrade unless there is a measurable improvement in image quality. Why would I want to buy a new EOS macro lens when the one I have tests out higher than anything they have in the new ones? I use the gear to make a living, not to be seen and only purchase new when what I have gets too worn or won't do the job. New for the sake of new is a waste of money for me. On some jobs I shoot film and it works great. Still a number of editors who love getting handed a page or three of Chromes to look at. They don't even have to turn on a computer to see them. Other jobs are digital and that works well also.</p>

 

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Canon do seem to have changed the nature of the CPS program by demanding that all members have a subset of "approved" equipment, and dropping any requirement to actually show that you are a professional photographer (by submitting tear sheets or other proof of publication). It seem to me like a bit of a step backwards.

<p>

I notice too that you have to be a digital photographer (or at least own two digital bodies). I'd have thought that there would be a least a handful of pros who are still shooting film.

<p>

The lens requirements seem to be aimed at getting you to buy the latest gear. Presumably the equipment on the list will get updated as models are discontinued, so while you may qualify today, you may not qualify next year unless you upgrade your bodies/lenses. If you have a 200/2.8L, an 85/1.2L and a 200/1.8L, I'm afraid you're SOL because none of those lenses count. You have to upgrade to the "II" versions of the first two, and sell your 200/1.8 and buy the 200/2.0L IS in order to have your lenses count. None of the older non-IS telephotos count and I know there are still nature photographers making a living using the older 400/2.8, 500/4.5 and 600/4L lenses

 

<p>The new program makes little sense other than from an economic point of view. You now have to pay for what was equivalent to the old program (gold/platinum) and you have to buy into the latest and most expensive lenses. Seems like those damned accountants have been meddling again.</p>

 

<p>

As you say, those "doctors and dentists" with bags full of the latest gear can qualify (if they simply say they make 51% of their income from photography), while a working pro with $10,000 worth of older lenses may not qualify, especially if (s)he is still shooting film and hasn't bought two recent DSLR bodies, even though (s)he may have bought two brand new EOS -1v bodies last week.

<p>

It would have been more reasonable to have an alternate qualification process as well. If you didn't own the "right" equipment they could have had an option where you could still qualify under the old procedure of submitting proof of professional status. The new qualification process seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth for some (now) ex-CPS members.

<p>

BTW Canon will be taking a look at this thread, so please add any comments here that you'd like Canon to read. <b>Constructive</b> criticism would be best rather than "This just sucks"! I've temporarily bumped the thread up to the top of the list here so that we can get a few more responses.

<p>

I guess Canon have now answered the often asked question here about what makes a "pro" and whether a lens or body is "pro" or "amateur". A professional photographer owns two cameras and three lenses from the approved list, and if a lens or body isn't on the list, then I'm afraid it's just not professional gear! I don't care if you shoot gymnastics for a living using the 200/1.8L and an EOS-1v. You're still not a Canon professional. If you're unemployed, have no job or income but happen to own the right gear and you sell a couple of pictures, you're a pro!

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<p>It seems CPS has varying criteria in different countries. Here in Oz we still need to produce the documented proof of professional photo activity. Registered equipment is 3 `L` series lenses and 2 pro series `1` bodies purchased from an authorized Canon professional dealer. A 5D will only be accepted if a pro ` body is owned as well. amongst other things we have to be registered with a canon approved photographic association such as AIPP. many of us dropped out of AIPP in this area due to one photog getting preference to most referrals passed on into the area, what was annoying was that person only used a P&S. Maybe the CPS will change as well here, I don`t know where I stand here nor bother anymore. Is the CPS directive from canon or left to the management in each country ?</p>
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<p>Ha ha ha. They wont let some other L's in that are actually pro lenses per the L, but they will let you in with one of these <strong>EF 70-300/4.5-5.6 DO IS</strong> piece of crap lenses. </p>

<p>Give me a break. This is nothing more that modivation by $$$. Not taking care of the pro's. I need one more Pro lens that qualifies and 100 bucks and bang, I get a CPS Gold membership. I classify myself as a pro because I run a company selling photos etc. But I <strong>do not</strong> earn 51% of my income doing so. Not yet anyway. But, one lens will allow me to get in the way of a real professional who is on assignment totally earning his living with their equipment. Now mine is in front of his and costing him money. My perceptions was CPS was for the guy who is shooting an event and his gear dumps. He walks over to the service tent and they get him back up and running. Or he could get super service turnaround. Like the platinum 2 day turnaround.</p>

<p>ANY L lens should qualify....period. What Canon is doing is training people that if they buy that expensive lens today, its longer their top lens tomorrow and screw you. You has been pro. I think they should do the following:</p>

<p>Allow someone like me to joing bottom CPS service because I own a 1D3 and 40D. I own 2 of the listed pro lenses. Let me join for expidited service and turnaround. I deserve that for spending coin on pro gear. Obviously I earn money with it.</p>

<p>But allow pro's that earn more than 50% of their income(proven) with Pro bodies(past or present) to have Gold level expidited service that goes ahead of someone like me. Both of these for free and the Platinum for those who want to pay the fee for the super service.</p>

<p>I mean I'm not a memebr of CPS nowand I already get unbeliveable service from them now. So join CPS and step up a notch, but the working pro's should never be kicked out because their gear has been updated. And a dentist with a big credit card or bank account should never get in the way of their working pro's. Thats BS. The dentist should get something too for dropping the coin, but not go ahead of a staffed pro. Comon Canon. Tighten this up. I'm very pleased with your service, but dont piss of the full time pro's. Take care of those guys. They made you who you are.</p>

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<p>I should be eligible too -- HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR ME I know of three other people who would NOT be shooting Canon DSLRs today. Influence.</p>

<p>I have bought 4 Canon SLRS (no Rebs!) and 7 Canon lenses (3 of those fully pro). I also buy & recommend pro equipment: Speedlites and Canon remote control devices.</p>

<p>Should I qualify for CPS or not? I definitely think so even though I sell very few prints.</p>

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<p>If Canon is going to read this (and respond), I am curious about the 51% of income requirement.</p>

<p>Is that for an individual or for a household? The reason I ask is that I know several "pros" who make 100% of their individual income from photography. Meanwhile, their spouse pays the bills, puts the food on the table and the roof over their heads. So like Bob said, if a photographer doesn't do anything but sell a few photos a year, he'd qualify with a working spouse.</p>

<p>On the other hand, a bonafide pro who happens to be married to a successful lawyer or doctor shouldn't be penalized, either.</p>

<p>By the strict definition of 51%, a successful photographer who also makes a significant amount of money in other pursuits doesn't qualify.</p>

<p>What's the point of the 51% requirement?</p>

<p>Eric</p>

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<p>It seems to me that they should just rename CPS something like "Canon Select Member" program and be done with it. It's aimed at people who buy large amounts of expensive equipment (professional or not - the 51% is just a meaningless check box) and that's fine - Canon are in the business to make money. I have made 100% of my income through photography for 25 years (and no, my wife is not a lawyer and doesn't pay the bills). I buy the equipment I need, when I need it. I have never joined CPS as I have ample redundancy for everything, so it's never an issue for me - I shoot advertising and editorial and not events.</p>

<p>I do see a need however for accredited sports and press professionals to have access to a REAL CPS program which should be purely for pros and require verification of that fact. It could be paid annually like AAA membership or an insurance plan. This way it would be independent of recent equipment purchases, or specific bodies, etc. As long as you use Canon gear, are professional and pay into the plan, there would be expedited repairs, preferential rentals and service, and support available at large events for the real paid up professionals from the Canon Service Facilities.</p>

<p>This way both sets of photographers are catered for - pros and wealthy amateurs - and the programs could be better tailored to their individual needs - also no-one need (or could) lie on forms about the source of their income. Clearly the current system is flawed.</p>

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<p>Maybe someone can explain to me what precisely the benefits are? I'm a member but on three occasions of trying to make use of the benefits of a professional service for repairs, the service offered has been, in my opinion anything but "professional". <br>

The last time, repairs to a 70-200 (dropped, my fault), which was desperately needed for a job seven days later would, I was told, take two weeks to repair – and no replacement was available or offered. I took it straight round to Fixation who repaired it in five days.<br>

I'm a professional, I don't care what it costs, I want it fixed. Discounted repairs are no good to me when there is work to be done.<br>

I don't even bother to register my kit with them anymore.<br>

Hopeless. </p>

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<p>Several people have made the comment "Canon are in the business to make money" which is exactly right, but CPS are in the business of providing a service to professionals, and these are two entirely separate issues, and we should not confuse them.</p>

<p>"Professional" status you held last month should not be lost because Canon brought out a Mk2 version of your lens, thats just nonsense.</p>

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<p>I can see Canon's point in a way, in that they may only be able to offer full support for current or recent equipment. However that shouldn't exclude those who own cameras or lenses that can't be fully supported (such the the older non-IS telephotos), as long as it's made clear that expedited repairs (or even any repairs) may not be available on equipment which isn't listed as currently supported by the CPS program.</p>

<p>There's much more to being a professional than owning a given set of gear. I still think that if someone can provide proof of professional status, they should be eligible for CPS membership, on the understanding that only items on the equipment list qualify for expedited repair and/or loan replacement. If you bring in your EOS-1v for repair, you don't get a loaner and you don't get rapid turnaround.</p>

<p>Professionals should be smart enough to be capable of understanding the terms and conditions of membership.</p>

<p>I still don't really see why Canon dropped the requirement for proof of professional status. Maybe it's cost cutting again, since (presumably) someone would have to check those credentials. With the current system in theory nobody would ever have to look at the application. It would just go into the database and, if required for your chosen level, your credit card would be charged the cost of membership. No humans involved, no staff needed!</p>

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<p>Unfortunatly, this is the way of the world. I am the North American Customer Support Manager for a large Japanese company that makes contruction and stamping (automotive) machinery. A business model that has emerged some years ago relys on "market segmentation". This sales tool is not new, but using it on the service end is. How it works is this: your customers are segmented by how much money they spend, this determines how much attention they receive. Customers at the top of the list get special promotions and special deals on parts / service, as well as more attention to being kept "happy". Customers near the bottom of the list do not receive this type of attention. I don't consider this fair, but from a sales and business standpoint, the customers who spend the most are encouraged to keep spending. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the CPS situation does not suprise me, nor would suprise any other Service / Sales Manager today.</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>I still think that if someone can provide proof of professional status, they should be eligible for CPS membership, on the understanding that only items on the equipment list qualify for expedited repair and/or loan replacement.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Expedited/discounted repairs and loaners are the only tangible benefits of CPS and CPS is not a "professional association" of any kind so, unless you are after chachkas or a monopod cover or a free coup of coffee or sensor cleaning at supported events (but you must be credentialed and have access to non-public areas, that's where the CPN/CPS trailer/tent is usually located...) membership only makes sense if you can get speedy turnaround on repairs of the eqipment that Canon fully supports. And since they don't want to be put in a weird position of having to refuse a discounted repair of - say - EOS 1n to a member, there are certain arbitrary entry requirements of owning a small quantity of current equipment. As an aside, it was much harder to qualify under the old equipment/proof of status rules...</p>

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<p>Yes, but it's quite possible to own, say, both an EOS-1v (not supported) and a 1Ds MkIII (or even just a humble EOS 40D) and shoot with a 400/2.8L or 200/1.8L (not supported) and a 70-200/2.8 IS (supported). You would <em>not</em> qualify for CPS membership and so even though you could potentially get expedited repair on your 1Ds MkIII (or 40D) and your 70-200/2.8L IS, since you can't join CPS you can't get it, even if you're shooting at an event at which your 1Ds MkIII and 70-200/2.8L IS gives you a problem and CPS have a tent and support both cameras. Maybe this isn't a common position, but I'll bet it applies to some.</p>

<p>There are some benefits to CPS other than "on event" repairs. There's a loan program, there's a repair discount (which I think applies to all repairs, not just those on the "approved" equipment list), there's telephone tech support from someone who knows what they are talking about.</p>

<p>While I'm sure that the new program will probably cover 80% of professional, maybe 90%, it just seems unfair to the other 10-20% who shoot professionally, make "more than 50% of their income" shooting with Canon gear, yet who are now excluded from the CPS program.</p>

<p>I can scrape in by the skin of my teeth as long as I don't sell one of my "qualifying" items of equipment and Canon don't force me to upgrade my 5D by dropping it from the eligible equipment list (which presumably at some point they will) or bringing out a new version of one of my "L" lenses and dropping the old one (like they dropped the 200/2.8L MkI and the 85/1.2L MkI in favor of the MkII versions). I'm happy with my lenses. I have no need to upgrade. I have no need to sell a 50/1.4 USM (not supported) and buy a 50/1.2L (supported).</p>

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<blockquote>

<p>Michael Liczbanski wrote:<br>

Expedited/discounted repairs and loaners are the only tangible benefits of CPS and CPS is not a "professional association" of any kind so, unless you are after chachkas or a monopod cover or a free coup of coffee or sensor cleaning at supported events (but you must be credentialed and have access to non-public areas, that's where the CPN/CPS trailer/tent is usually located...) membership only makes sense if you can get speedy turnaround on repairs of the eqipment that Canon fully supports.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Agree entirely.<br>

My experience of CPS in the UK is that it is not worth a light. Canon's can claim "expedited" repairs for its "professional" CPS members only if the "general public" have to wait far longer. As a CPS member, I was quoted two weeks for a repair – how long would I have had to have waited otherwise, 4 weeks? A commercial independent repairer did the same repair in five days.<br>

<br /><br>

<br /></p>

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<p>Has anyone mentioned that they seem to want for gold and platinum CPS $100 and $500 respectively? I'd imagine it was just another piece of business ... under the pretence that we have your best interests at heart. And since times are hard it is now getting some publicity here ... Again. <br>

Preditors. People get paid to think up these schemes. </p>

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<p>Oh <em>grow up</em>, Al - nobody with a brain in his head is under <em>any</em> illusion that CPS is altruistic.</p>

<p>It's a business "gesture", pure and simple, which Canon offer because they choose to, not because they have to (taxi drivers don't get preferential treatment from Ford as I'm aware - and they're professional car users).</p>

<p><em>Is there anything you won't turn into an anti-Canon bitch-fest?</em></p>

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<p>Let's keep it civil folks. Yes Canon's purpose in life is indeed to make money. However you get and keep customers by offering the best possible service. There are plenty of Pros who I'm sure will be willing to pay $100 or even $500 to join CPS, and there is a "reduced benefit" free option. For $500 you do get 60% discount on pro repairs. If you have a couple of major repairs in a year, you could save that $500. Some repairs take longer than others of course, it depends on parts being in stock here in the US (rather than having to be shipped from Japan).</p>

<p>Obviously Canon regard the CPS program as beneficial to their bottom line. If CPS members didn't think it had value, they wouldn't bother joining. It's a program that is good for both Canon and (some) Canon users. The gripe here is that Canon have shifted from a program which recognizes professional status directly to one which is simply based on the equipment owned. If you are a pro who makes a living using Canon equipment and you don't own the right set of gear, you can't join. I think that's the major complaint now.</p>

<p>Sure the program could be better with a 24hr turnaround on all repairs (of supported equipment), but that's another issue! In fact the "platinum" CPS membership does claim a 48hr turnaround on repairs of supported items.</p>

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