Couple wanting to pay balance after they see the pictures,help

<p >Hi guys,</p>

<p >I’ve been on this forum for a couple months now, and I must say the advice that everyone gives is great, and it has opened my eyes to a lot of things that otherwise I wouldn’t have thought of. </p>

<p >I’ve been photographing for around 7 years and recently started in the wedding photography business. I have a couple weddings booked with deposit and signed contract. I usually require the balance to be paid 2 weeks before the wedding, and so far so good, no complaints. </p>

<p >I met with a couple yesterday; they loved my pictures and want me to be the photographer for their wedding. However, they heard a “horror story” from one of their friends that said he paid the photographer up front, and the photographer didn’t show up on the wedding date. So, they asked me if they could pay the remaining balance the day of the wedding. I agreed to $200 deposit which they paid, 75% of the balance 2 wks prior to the wedding, and the remaining balance the day of in cash. I told them I would send them the contract for them to sign, etc, but today I got an email from them saying that they were not really comfortable with paying the balance until they got the final product/prints/album.</p>

<p >I already bent the rules for them, plus they have a contract that holds me responsible for delivering the album and pictures. I don’t feel very comfortable doing this because what if for some reason they don’t pay me! I would really appreciate any thoughts/advice???? Thanks in advance!!! (Sorry for the long post, hopefully you are still awake,lol)</p>

<p>I have to wonder if the caterer agreed to be paid only after everyone ate the food.</p>

 

<p>What are the final products? Files, prints, albums? If an album is included, I'd say that is too long to wait for final payment, particularly if they see the images, and/or receive files before that. If just files, I might consider accepting payment when the files are turned over, but cash only--no checks that can bounce. Other than that, I would refuse.</p>

<p>Just say no and walk away......<br>

I just turned one down like this. Their original photographer backed out and their wedding is in 3 weeks, I gave them the packathey they wanted with a quote and they they started with the I donlt want to pay until AFTER i get the package.<br>

I told them no, thank you for talking to me and left.</p>

<p>Steve</p>

 

<p>So now they can hire 2 pros and go with the ones they like? Don't bend the rules, you'll get burned. Your contract should protect you and the client. They've seen your work and have a contract. That's all they should need. Sorry for being so blundt, but I've been burned on this very thing. Good luck.</p>

<p>Rob's right - the caterer won't agree to that. Their cake baker won't. The DJ won't...</p>

<p>So, after the wedding, they've paid everyone else, have no money left, have the finished album and you're stuck.</p>

<p>The way I do it is this: a signed contract and a 50% non-refundable deposit is required to hold the date. The contract states that other 50% is due one week before the wedding. The contract also states that (to paraphrase), if the balance is not paid on time then I can book another wedding for the same day and the couple loses their deposit (and their photographer).</p>

<p>But, and this is absolutely crucial, I spend a lot of time fostering the relationship with my clients and I've never had this happen. Only once did the couple pay me a couple of days after the wedding but it was my fault and I knew it wouldn't be an issue with this client. (I had a new credit card terminal, brought it with me to the rehearsal without the manual and couldn't figure out how to set it to offline processing). The MOTB offered to pay on the wedding day but I said that the day was meant to be enjoyed by everyone and not spent running around making sure I was paid. But, again, I knew this would not be a problem with this particular client.</p>

<p>If I were in your shoes, I would politely and professionally tell them that I've already bent the rules for them and the payment schedule isn't negotiable.</p>

<p>Of course, I would also happily offer references and strongly urge them to call them and check up on me.</p>

<p>BTW, on the day of their wedding, they are not going to have the time or inclination to stop by an ATM to get cash. Nor are they going to want to have a big wad of cash in their pockets throughout the day.</p>

<p>I recently had a client whose parents were paying for the photography. They were very uneasy with paying everything before the wedding because they had been burned by a photographer on their other daughter's wedding. It seems this other photographer never delivered the images.<br>

My client simply wanted to pay the balance when I delivered all of the images. I told them that was fine. I will deliver to you all of the images with Personal Printing rights, max repo size: 4x6.<br>

The parents were elderly, and from what I could tell - very genuine, so I trusted them.<br>

I guess my point is, trust your gut. It is always right.<br>

A few weeks ago, we had another couple ask us the same thing. They were 1/2 hour late to our meeting, didn't say they were sorry. They ordered dinner, and didn't even offer to pay for a their half. I trusted my gut, and told them NO WAY. 100% payment in full before the wedding.</p>

<p>I'm on their side and this billing process was much more common in the industry than it appearrently is now. From what you wrote it sounds as if they've paid at least 75% and owe 25%, if this is correct then I don't see the problem. You'll still have all their images in your possession untill they've paid the complete balance. It's also possible that they're already counting on the $ from the wedding presents to help cover the cost of the wedding.</p>

<p>Services by the DJ, caterer, and florist are not similar to the photograhy since these are "consumables". The wedding images are what you should have "after the flowers, after the dinner, after the party, etc..." which is the very selling point we give to the B/G so that they are not "scrimping" on their photography.</p>

<p>I would change your contract to a retainer fee that goes toward the balance if contract is satisfied. A non-refundable deposit doesn't hold up in court. Bride always wins. Just a suggestion. </p>

<p>I've become flexible with my payments lately. 1/3 as retainer, 1/3 30 days prior and 1/3 the day of. Usually there is no problem. </p>

<p>If requested, a payment after the wedding is OK, as long as I still owe them something. Example, they need to chose the photos for their album, the final balance must be paid for before I start the work on the album. So even if they pay by check, the check will have cleared before I start work. If all they want is a disk of the images, then the final payment must be in cash at the time that I drop off the disk, and I will drop off the disk, not send it in the mail.</p>

<p>What about accepting their request, but only providing down-sized versions (say 800pix max length in any direction) for their perusal. They can use these to judge the quality of the photographs and realise you did a good job. You can then meet up with them and hand over the full resolution images and at the same meeting they make the final payment to you.</p>

<p>Possibly talking to some of your previous clients would ease their fears?</p>

<p>Photography is different than most of the other services or consumables that are provided during the wedding are consumed or delivered day of the wedding. Photography is the one service that is provided during the wedding, but the photos themselves are not delivered until after the event.</p>

<p>As a consumer - I can understand their reluctance to pay sight unseen as is were. However - as a photographer - I know the difficulties that we have in collecting after the fact - since the couple may come up with any number of reasons why they don't want to pay for the photos after the fact.</p>

<p>90% of my clients pay in advance - they don't want to be bothered trying pay the day of. 9% or so pay the day of... and 1% pay after. For those not paid on the day of .... They get a friendly reminder that if I don't get the payment, they don't get it photos.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>Absolutely not! Never!</p>

<p>Never deliver the finished product until you've received payment. That's the standard in the industry.</p>

<p><em>I don't see the problem.</em></p>

<p>I do.</p>

<p>Seeing photos provides an opportunity to claim that the results are unsatisfactory and launch into claims for discounts ect. That may not be the intent with these particular people but past and present behavior of cleints, in general, made wedding photography a pay up front industry. In this instance, they may legitimately be motivated by a "horror story" but demanding changes to a contract after already successfully demanding changes to the contract and agreeing to the prior changes starts putting this into red flag territory. Namely that more demands can be expected because they have a history of making them them and because they know it works. The potential for being told they won't pay unless you agree to discounts for 'substandard' work is at a level where it should not be a surprise when it happens. It wouldn't be a suprise even if there weren't prior demands!</p>

<p>As to wedding photography not being consumable and deserving of being treated differently than other vendors, well, you'll feel consumed very fast when clients are given inspection rights before payment is due. That's what this new demand is. A demand for inspection rights as a condition for payment whether the intentions are sincere or not. Its a slippery slope to grant them that power. Even if they are sincere in their intentions, they may complain anyway believing, incorrectly, that you did substandard work. This is why there are contracts. Because things go wrong even with the best of intentions. When you let the clients write the contract for you, its time to question why you bother even having one.</p>

 

<p>I have a similar set-up in my contract. I take a $500 deposit to book, then the balance isn't due until 14 days after the wedding regardless of the package or products chosen. This is spelled out very clearly in our contract and it is gone-over verbally at the pre-wedding consult.</p>

<p>We allow 14 days because most couples honeymoon for at least a week, and, it allows us our usual 7-10 day turn-around on post production. This, of course, doesn't include album design and production. That is covered separately in the contract.</p>

<p>We basically hold the images hostage until the balance is paid. Additionally, we apply a 10% penalty for unpaid balances beyond the 14 day due date.</p>

<p>We've never had an issue. Luck? Maybe. But I also credit it to very clear communication between both parties and very clear and understood expectations.</p>

<p>This is a business, after all. And must be treated as such. Stick to your guns.</p>

<p>I always stick to my rules when it comes to payment, I don't think it's fair to break them for one person and not for others. Plus if the couple do end up recommending you to someone else, would the new customer want the same payment terms?<br>

It's totally up to you though, would you feel comfortable with it? I don't think I would. I guess trust has to go both ways and if they don't trust me then why is there a reason for me to trust them?<br>

If my service was bad/I cheated them, my reputation would be on the line and I have a lot to lose. If they ended up cheating their reputation isn't up for stakes. I'd have more to lose by failing the contract than they would.</p>

 

<p>I have to receive payment well before the wedding in order to shoot on the day.</p>

<p>If your work is consistent with the quality you have shown them already, you should not worry about asking for the payment as planned.</p>

<p>Payment up front in full.</p>

<p>Some shooters in my area now get full payment months in advance. </p>

<p>I used to get the final 1/3rd payment the day of ... bad idea. Half the weddings I had to chase down who ever had the check book, and wait until they were good and ready to write the check.</p>

<p>Never again.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Letting them pay after the wedding...maybe. If you feel comfortable with it and have a sizeable deposit paid and can handle the loss if they fail to pay. Letting them pay after they see the pictures...no way! This is a great way to never get paid.<br>

While most people are honorable and pay their bills, some do not or overspend and cannot. I knew a photographer once who shot a wedding and had the proofs made (this was back in film days) before getting paid in full. The bride had every intention of paying, but just never could come up with the money. The last I remember of it, more than a year had passed and she still hadn't come to get her pictures or pay the balance. Yes, the photographer still had her images "hostage" but it didn't do him any good because he did the work, paid for film and processing and wasn't compensated for his time. He could have shot another wedding that day and got paid. A total loss on his part.</p>

 

<p>although I realize the norm is to get paid the day of the wedding as an absolute last payment date.....with the uprising of "wedding photographer's" since the digital cam has made it so easy to burst into the field.....I can actually see where the customer's are coming from with this request. I previously worked at a major camera store in NYC......and I saw some of the wedding pic results from some of the so called photographers that worked there.......i wouldn't give them the time of day, let alone my hard earned cash. such horrendous garbage they were giving their clients. Sad thing was.....they were getting mucho jobs because they were so inexpensive......and yet, the guys who actually knew what they were doing and produced quality results.....but charged more, and rightfully so.....were getting very much less bookings</p>

<p>strange the way the world works.....aint it?</p>

<p>I broke my rule ONCE and I also got burned. For a co-workers family member. It took her over a month to pay me in full. To this date I'm not even sure if she was the one paying! I think my co-worker paid for it because he felt bad. I have never suggested to get any payment ON the wedding day. I'm too busy and I don't want to think who has the checkbook. V/R Buffdr</p>

<p >I think each business adapts to the local clientele </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I have mentioned before a three payment method such as: 50% on booking; 35% 6 weeks out; and then 15% on receipt of goods. That style worked for me and the clients perceived they had some hold over my studio's performance and its quality quality. And that structure was a selling point for us - the fact we did not want payment before-hand and all our competition did. If you later restructure your business to do something like this, which as already mentioned was quite common, especially with businesses based on Print Order sales, well and good: but the question is should you adapt this as a special case and bend the rules further. On the face of it I would say: no.</p>

<p > </p>

<p ><strong><em>"I already bent the rules for them", </em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >What rings alarm bells in my ears is the position you have placed your business in: you have already accommodated a request which falls outside your normal procedure. I am always aware of those who ask for more . . . once an exception is given: the asking for more exceptions never seems to stop.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >BUT:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >There could be an even more important question which you have not asked, or do not realize: I ponder about this: </p>

<p ><em> </em></p>

<p ><em>"I told them I would send them the contract for them to sign, etc, but today I got an email from them saying that they were not really comfortable with paying the balance until they got the final product/prints/album . . . </em><strong><em>plus they have a contract that holds me responsible for delivering the album and pictures."</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Are you saying that you sent out a contract with <strong><em>your signature already on it?</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p > </p>