Converting a polaroid 110b to 4x5

Hello my name is peter and i want to know how i can convert a polroid 110b camera

to a 4x5. i have seen people do it online and sell them, but they are really expencive.

since i am a poor art school student in New York i dont have much money to spend

and thats why i want to make my own. I would like to make one like "Littmans 45

single" i want i attach a newer lens on the camera if it is possible and i would like the

rangefinder to work as well. if i can get any information about building this camera,

or using the right parts would be great, or if you know any helpful websites. thank

you for your time.

 

-peter

Peter there has been a seller on ebay who is selling a horseman back to fit the polaroid camera for about $200-300 which is the key part to make the conversion.It is a whole bunch cheaper than the littman. You might also consider a crown graphic as it already has the features you want. Cheers George

Forget it! It is a dumb thing to do.

Forget the Polaroid. No interchangeable lenses, no lens rise and fall or tilt and very expensive. A Crown Graphic will do ten times more for you at a lot less cost.

Paul

Peter,

 

I had a Polaroid 180 and the Tominon Lens was ok, but the Rangefinder wasn't accurate. I

too think you would be better served getting a Crown Graphic (I did).

 

You can get them for under $300 pretty often. The trick is to find one that is already set

up fairly well.

 

jmp

Peter, this was my solution to the problem, works well and the lens has enough coverage. I used the 110a model for the lens.<div></div>

Hi Peter,

 

I have a Polaroid 110B that someone else converted to 4x5 for me and I love it! I don't know what "really expensive" is to you, but I purchased mine for $400, including the Polaroid 110B. It didn't have the ground glass portion of the Graflok back, but that was about $50 on eB*y, so all told it was only $450. While I don't have either the tools or the skills to do the conversion myself, it does appear to be fairly straightforward. However, after you factor in the cost of the Polaroid 110B (about $100), the Graflok back (another $100), misc bits and pieces of hardware (maybe $50) and a CLA of the camera, shutter and lens (at least $150) you're not saving much by doing it yourself.

 

For those who can't see the value in such a camera, I should point out that this is definitely not meant as a replacement for a 4x5 view camera. Similarly, a Contax T3 or a Yashica T4 are not replacements for a 35mm SLR, but rather complimentary tools. I have a Zone VI 4x5 field camera and a Sinar P 4x5 (as well as 8x10) studio camera, so I understand the value of movements, long bellows and interchangeable lenses. However, when you want something equivalent to a simple point and shoot, but with 4x5 film, this is it.

In the same vein consider the Polaroid 600SE or the Mamiya Universal, the latter being something of a wonder camera that can be made to "do it all" though the negatives are limited to 3.25 x 4.24 (via polaroid).

I have started a long-winded response twice and cancelled it.

 

I have not taken a 110B apart, but am hacking/converting a J66 and a 150 and a 95B to all share the same back, with budget being the primary goal.

 

I do not (yet) know the dimensions of the rear door seal on the 110B, but if it is the same, my crude approach will work.

 

More later.

 

Murray

Curiosity is a great asset for a student and New York City has a great education system.

I run a business based in New York and licensed by the City of New York.That doesn't mean I'm rich,I am not! and I cannot afford to be diverted from my work every week when someone starts a new forum on photo.net, too lazy to even search previous discussions and forces me to remind people of our rights which all are willing to entirely disregard, One of the rights of this business is a patent and another one pending which specifically protects the product from the admitted intention which is the topic of this discussion.

 

Just as it is not ok to buy pirated cd's it is also not ok for someone to start a forum asking for a roadmap to infringe on a patent since it clearly asks for instructions on how to make his own product which would be as the patented one.

 

This is not a matter of anyone's opinion, this is a clear request for assistance in committing what would be considered patent infringement, that a student claiming poverty has not learned enough to know better is one thing, that people have responded is another.

 

I am a photographer, I was once a student I am also an American Citizen,I am also an artist as a respectful member of these groups in good standing ,I hereby ask that my rights be respected you have the right to disagree with my rights but the topic has been covered at length before and has become a source of clear disruption to my business and my product.

 

Mr. Hoang I appreciate your curiosity and haste in having your question answered , but this discussion is hereby closed on the basis that it is a clear request for assistance in breaking the law.

 

Photo.net large format forums are a place where people exchange info about Photography, one has to draw the line when the topic of the discussion is a clear request for assistance in doing something illicit.

 

On the other hand none of you can truly respond to the question since at least 1 patent application is still pending yet at least 1 U.S. patent is now in full force and alleged prior art has not been proven by anyone to the USPTO on these matters, and a photography forum is no place to deliberately undermine the legitimate rights of a business .

 

Based on these facts it is also not ok for anyone to utilize our name/ product to promote conversions by others.

 

Good day to all , the discussion is closed as per the wording of the attached patent cover specifying our rights,

 

Thank you.

Peter, You can avoid the "hassle" implied here, if you make your own camera as the image shown by another poster (wooden Polaroid film camera), or via another crafted design not derived from a coupled-RF 110B; you also avoid reading insanely long email replies from some people. Or, buy a the Mamiya-based Polaroid, which is a better camera than anything anyone has ever hacked together, and not that expensive. If measurable cost is a factor, do as so many people do and get a Polaroid-back & beater 4x5 camera.

 

Responding to this question, depending on what one says, is not necessarily patent infringement of any kind; most things anyone would say would be laughable in the face of a patent infringement charge. The fact that the question has been asked before on photo.net is irrelevant. Half of what is on photo.net is repeated, regirgitated information, so for Littman to, on his own, claim a post is finished because the topic was discussed before, is silly. Threads are rarely ended or killed because people have said them before (try reading the super-repetitive Canon EOS forum!). Photo.net ends threads, not Littman. Even if it is true people cannot truly answer your question, that has little to do with ending a thread. Peter, if you feel guilty, start a new post on "basement p&s non-110b 4x5 polaroid conversions"; Littman has no claim on other items. If anyone would like to volunteer how to convert different Polaroid models, or offer their assessment of his camera as a photographic tool, they are obviously free to do this. If discussion of his camera -most of it has nothing to do with the building of the product (read related posts, and replies by him), but with its usefulness, value, cost, etc.- disrupts his business, well then that is his problem. It is not against the law for people to talk about their satisfaction with a product, or how they made a similar tool, with different parts/ideas; in fact, half of photo.net is equipment-based analysis, and that is why people use it. Information on converting a different Polaroid model, or showing pictures of old conversions, or conversions not based on anything Littman has ever done, is not an infringement of anything.

Damn, I was going to buy patent-protected version from "the man" (I guess we cant say his name anymore or he will file a lawsuit, right?), then I read the fine print on the image he posted of the U.S. Patent cover. Check out this line from it: "...Granted to the persons having title to this patent the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention...". Yes, note the word "using". I have a hard and fast rule: if I cannot use a camera, I never buy it!!!!!

Rubbish!, those who buy a camera from us can clearly use it, have used it.The restriction on " Using the invention" is not a restriction on legitimate owners of the protected product, who purchase it in bona fide .

 

Being a photographer is a synergistic thing, it takes creativity dedication and integrity, the l45s is also a synergistic approach to photography and I have the willingness to make a few for those who proceed with integrity, respecting the maker of a camera rated as most responsive large format camera yet would be a prerequisite to considering a purchase , those who insist that because they were interested but will decline based on the fact I intend to preserve my rights and not waive them to be able to sell a camera, I haven't had to I do not need that kind of clientele, as I explained many times and has been confirmed by the owners The l45s is a labor of love which is merited by those which can afford to be grateful , not merited by those who think that because they are considering a purchase they are entitled to disrespect me , few will be made, kind and respectful buyers abound,these latest comment rhymes well but is not even that cute, my clients get a great camera and to make it I have to give up all my time, I am not motivated or interested in customers, I am interested in those who have the willingness to consider things in a synergistic manner and not take things out of context to make disruptive "points" which aren't a point at all! only 160 L45s1 were made, can you imagine if each customer was this cute? not appealing , all im interested at this point is the avoidance of further disruption , If I never sell another camera I will get a job or wow! I could be a photographer , If you read the American Photo article in my site it rates me as an accomplished fashion photographer , I have no doubt as I have experienced since I have introduced my camera that there are kind and considerate people who do not mind buying something good while not expecting to make sure you know that they "own you" because they have paid something, in any event there is a great fable about the fox and the grapes which he declared sour based on the fact that they were out of reach, if you are willing to forfeit ownership of a great camera based on a mere juxtaposition of words which is actually false you were not interested enough, If you consider My camera but not me and my rights , you haven't really considered anything , .

 

For 3.5 years people have reiterated the question " what can the camera do for me? after some of the best Pro's have insisted that in their opinion It performs better for the intended use than anything previously available I now want to say, I have worked very hard, as a result of this kind of disruption I have not been able to make a profit, Now I have a question, what can you do for the camera?, after all what the camera can do for you has been established after which it is you that has to step up to the plate, you dislike that? fine. its not arrogance but reality, I don't sell lazy boy chairs , never intended my camera to be used by those who are after comfort per se,those who use it admit it is better than the rest of the 4x5s for the application but you still have to work at it, I have been in the sets of some of the best photographers in the world and they run around like crazy, creative photography is hard work, before this forum nonsense I had a stream of customers who knew what they were looking for .

 

My site contains the opinions of some of the best Pro's who state their opinion after using the camera, and also of some of the amateurs and enthusiasts who have used it,I would have to be nuts to forfeit servicing those willing to believe those with the highest qualifications In the hopes of servicing those who disbelieve the opinions of those whom I respect and My own, who instead must have the opinion of those who haven't experienced the product.

 

After a learning experience I know what I can expect in return for my efforts, none of this will be part of the equation, My customers can expect a product which will work extremely well over time , In turn I can expect to make it for those who wish well .

 

A nice picture is ultimately a nice wish which has been captured and come true at least in print and those who admit a willingness to forfeit their wishes this easily based on falsehoods will fail at every turn, unfortunately forums are littered with the opinions of those who see the glass half full and the grapes sour, that is why I after so many years as a photographer I know that those who are truly interested in my product are not going to come here looking for the truth , they know better.

" those who shoot do/ those who dont "forum", photography is a journey of introspection and the personal ability to capture what one has had taken the effort to observe, it has been said that those who use art as a form of expression have a limited ability to put their thoughts into words or are more interested in expressing their message thru their art, and as a result the art is more powerful, I guess at this point I really don't care for more recognition on a product that I only intended to make for myself but became so recognized that everyone wanted to either be part of the experience by owning it, questioning it or putting it down, there is a German car maker who states they are looking for drivers, I state I am now looking for photographers, I don't expect them to be the best but I do expect them to want to take the best possible pictures then can , If anyone has had a difficult time deciding if my camera is right for them they are not listening to the only person who knows the answer, photography is a journey of self discovery as long as a camera is to be involved that is a personal decision or it will be made for the wrong reasons, we could all sit back and admit that we picked up a camera to attempt to express something in our own personal way and so that expression would be differentiated from the expression of others and it sort of bothers me as a photographer and the best of my peers that people who could benefit from this product are being misdirected from the truth which is that since Michelangelo had to mortgage his life to excel in his art, people expect to not have to sacrifice anything and get great results at the same time , I have had to give up a lot to make the camera and im looking for a few who are willing to risk trying something new without further reassurances .

 

I sell less cameras now that when It was both unproven and a mystery therefore I'm

convinced that the focus of the project has been diverted from those who could enjoy it by this ensuing discouragement and hijacked by those who want to be customers on their own terms , a Nikon costs the same for rich or poor and on any given day no one has to mortgage their house to buy it, so photographers/ artists don't mortgage your dreams based on discouragement , the best dreams are both difficult to accomplish and are also the most satisfying I would like to wish that you allow your dreams to come true, the pursuit of originality which is the sole value of any art is entirely invalidated by the pursuit of fakes in the attempt to try a little less hard, invest a little less, compromise more. Its time to get busy If you cant afford the things you want to achieve your goal perhaps it is the goal and not the camera which needs evaluation.

 

I recently saw a documentary on pbs that what really put a huge stress on the Beatles and eventually accelerated or contributed to the fights and breakup was the constant filming of every minute of their final recordings and while differences and struggles always exist between artists that is what needs to come out as art, not talk you can choose either but you will not have both well, art is a journey of self discovery If you intend to use photography as art listen to yourself and none else , if you are not interested in photography as a medium to take pictures who express your opinion in a more personalized manner you definitely do not need my camera , If what you wish to express is to be your expression , listen to nobody else, you might succeed. you know what you want and what you cant afford is to ask someone else .

 

In any event I am grateful that my camera has been recognized but i do not feel obligated to forfeit what i believe in in the hopes of selling cameras or gaining support, If that will make me unpopular maybe it will help me to regain the modus operandi which i expect otherwise at this point I have other things which i have created since which motivate me as well.

 

Cheers and please!!

 

 

 

 

 

"...Rubbish!, those who buy a camera from us can clearly use it, have used it.The restriction on " Using the invention" is not a restriction on legitimate owners of the protected product, who purchase it in bona fide..."

 

Stoddard was joking Littman; buy a sense of humor.

 

Anyone who has read your patent (go to www.uspto.gov, then go to "quick search", then enter a search on "Polaroid" + "Litman" (you need to spell his name this way, as he uses different spelling/form versions of it, and his first name, which is apprently, "Guillermo"), knows what, exactly, is protected and what is not protected.

Yow -

 

My contributions to amateur DIY-camera modifications are intended for non-pecuniary purposes only. There is no intent to infringe upon a patent. There is no intent to divulge any protected information. Interestingly, some companies choose to NOT patent their technology to keep it undisclosed (secret). Patenting something, of course, gives certain protection to the assignee and perhaps others.

 

I don't think it prevents an amateur from creating a single piece that is vaguely related for one's own use that isn't sold in a manner that causes financial harm to a patent assignee.

 

If someone were to violate someone else's patent in a manner that does cause them financial harm, shame on them. This, of course, is determined in a court of law, not by Internet chat, forums, e-mail etc.

 

Apparently, it is not unusual for competing companies to study quite closely how to alter a design to avoid patent infringement, to create one's own unique enhancement that might in itself be patentable, etc.

 

Many hobbyists build, hack, mimic, etc commercial products for their own personal use, in such areas as computers, audio equipment, musical instruments, robotics, etc. People can also choose to purchase an available well-crafted finished product if desired. I hope that those who wish to do so.

 

Murray

What is specified in the patent cover , isn't limited to businesses

and applies to individuals as well. what is protected by the issued patent is only a fraction of what is protected by the patent pending.

 

I need to be able to concentrate on my work, no further disruption s'il v'ous plait!!

My name is Spelled Littman professionally because at one point a whole issue of Vogue foreign editions had several fashion stories photographed by me, as I was not yet know, the name stuck and I adopted it as a fashion photographer, when I went on to make the camera I was already know,In any event the patent number is posted on the entry page of my site, please do not refer to me using words like " apparently/ allegedly/ reportedly "etc I am not hiding anything, as Mr. Murray expressed quite well this is no place for you to discuss my patent, you have been informed it exists ,you have been informed what my rights are,and the topic of this discussion is directly against those rights, how much more clear do I need to say this?

 

While I do know exactly what is covered earlier threads show that even people stating to be experienced in these matters showed that they did not understand the terminology or chose not to,and went to make false statements about what is covered and not covered these statements were damaging and have misled the public to my detriment, I do have a sense of humor yet his comment ends in 5 exclamation points!!!!! and In a forum thread which shouldn't even exist , Insisting that the product will not be purchased because of the terms specified by the patent is not a considerate joke.

the tone of your words isn't kind either I'm not hiding anything .

 

Anyone who reads this can see that the arrangement is as follows, yield or get bashed / put out or get out, none of it is funny and it has happened before that I have had to yield as a result of this type of pressures but as they amount to extortion as a clear threat of discredit is present in every comment if I wish to preserve my rights, and it is on that basis that I ask that this matter be considered closed as it has been previously addressed and it has been agreed by the parties involved that a legal patent needs to be respected.

 

I have a sense of humor, I am also accustomed to be invited to forums discussing my product as people interested in it, "do" want to actually learn about it from someone who knows it first hand, this thread on the other hand utilizes my brand name to attempt to duplicate the camera and in turn the responses offered go to somewhat validate that, so clearly the thread is antagonistic to me and my product, I do have a sense of humor but you are referring to me as if I was somewhat challenged and you are asking me to enjoy it.

 

Rather than trying to justify further what cannot be, please consider the words in the patent cover as the last word, they are not my own, they are the wording of the law,

 

I provide the necessary info in the entry page to my site and if anyone wants to make something that doesn't infringe on my patent and patent pending , go ahead, as Mr. Murray explained well this subject does not belong in a net forum, nothing further needs to be said.

http://www.rwhirled.com/landlist/how2-packconv.htm

Here is a sight with some tips on hacking Polaroids and the different models that lend themselves to the conversion easier than others.

Peter,

 

As you can see Mr Littman is very protective about his patent. Even to the point of making illogical and false statements. If you wish to covert a Polaroid 110b camera to a 4x5 there is nothing to stop you. If you wish to make a direct copy of Mr Littman's 45 single, then you are infringing patent.

 

As long as you don't actually reverse engineer or duplicate his work, then you are fine. So (theoretically) if you get an old 4x5 back and stick it onto the 110b with a wooden box attachment, then you are not infringing patent.

 

If on the other hand, you go to the US patent web site, look up Mr Littmans patent, copy all the photos and instructions, take it to a machine shop and have them make the same individual bits (identical to Mr Littmans) and then put it all together then you are infringing patent.

 

There are other websites out there that do this type of thing - have a look online.

 

Adrian

 

(BTW read the following link for more information about the last time this question was raised to Mr Littman! http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006RNX)

BTW Mr Littman - as you are a self-proclaimed 'business man' you will understand that sales are directly related to market forces - supply/demmand. If you sell less cameras now than before when it was 'both unproven and a mystery' then maybe

 

1. The Market you are selling to has decided the entry price of US$2450 is just too high.

 

2. People have tested it and found it is not good enough

 

3. The mystery is gone because it is not as good as what the website claims, and people have realised this.

 

4. It hasn't been 'proved' (and please don't go on about all the wonderful people that use your camera - just because famous people like your camera doesn't mean it has been proved! Lots of famous photographers like using Holga's yet no one is going to say they are a great camera!)

 

 

Good luck in future sales.

This has overtones of Pinky and the Brain.......

one is a genius, the other insane?

Message to all:

I would like to explain that My buisness and patent have been under attack as a result of the efforts of 1 buisness person, this placed me against a sword and a wall, these last two days i was able to prove my case and or obtain all the evidence I need if I ever have to do so in the future, after which I state that I have never bothered private individuals nor do I intend to,I accept that people will do whatever and clear that I first have no intention and never had to go after private individuals, I would expect that if someone wishes to make a camera for their own use and it is identical to my patented camera as stated that they would just do so instead of rallying instigation against a patent or saying it doesnt cover what it does etc.

 

Live and let live requires that you get what you wish and that i get to preserve what is mine / I cant allow some and not others so my position is that i would rather not know about it.

 

That would apply as to what is patented or patent pending and what isnt and will not be is not my issue.

 

Lets live and let live, in exchange I expect something in return

which is that whatever needs to be learned be learned elsewhere

 

I will not bother a sytudent making his own camera and at the same time you could try to understand i do not want to be bothered by threads that amount to instigating patent infringement.

Please Mr. Groff!

 

The subject of this thread is not the value of my product, as clearly those who participate in a thread destined to forfeit any expenditure if possible or the absolute rock bottom will feel like a product with a high price tag is expensive, no the sales have suffered because a confusion has been created in the market as a result of others insisting products that cost a fraction could do the same, now that that has been proven false and can be proven indefinitely that will revert.

 

 

People have tested it and found it not only good enough but the best ever for the application, the owners who insist use it for the

most prestigious assignments available and trust their income to its performance so insist, yes they use holgas maybe but they don't boast about owning them either.

 

when it was unknown it was a mystery but now its reputation as a reliable camera has replaced the mystery and the reports from the new model exceed what the website states.

The highest proof on a camera which is intended as a professional tool is that those at the top of the profession not only use it but go on to say that it is great, that is the proof that matters to those to whom I am interested in selling the cameras to which are those who wish to take better pictures, the best Pros use many cameras but it is both extremely rare and almost unheard of that they will endorse a camera as in the case of the L45s and without being compensated.

 

Clearly those who wish to justify forfeiture of any expenditure

and are interested in finding ways to go around a patent to do so should at least admit they are the least entitled to question the value of a product which is unique . that would be tasteful .

 

In any event just realize that the interest is very high on the product otherwise this thread would not exist at the same time the interest to pay little or nothing has been around before my camera.

 

Cheers

There's just something about seemingly trying to control and restrain other peoples actions that grates on me. There seems no doubt of the value of protecting your rights, but the tenor overall is too far reaching and incomprehensible at times.

Why don't you just file the lawsuits you need to? The free exchange of information and ideas have a life of there own, as well they should.